Order of Finish and Assembly?

[Jason Strauss]

I’m finally getting to the end stages of my first kitchen cabinet project – carcasses are pre-finished maple ply and all else is hickory. Carcasses are built; face frames are built and sanded; and all door parts are constructed and awaiting assembly. My doors are shaker style with glued-up, solid ½” panels. They are back-cut to fit in the ¼” rail and style grooves and have a beaded detail – very nice looking IMHO:rolleyes:.

My planned finish schedule is as follows (as I’ve never done finishing on this scale, I am open to some suggestion here):
- light application of a honey colored stain (to even out the hickory tones)
- then 3 coats of a water based poly (water based is required as I will be spraying indoors in a makeshift spray booth in my basement) with a light scratch pad sand between coats, as necessary.

All that said, my questions have to do with the order of assembly and finish, particularly where the door panels are concerned. If the panels were plywood, I would fully assemble the doors, sand, and then begin the finish process. But,…

With the panels being solid wood and prone to movement, should I apply the stain to the panel first, and then construct the frame around it and stain the rest?
If this is the case, how then do you easily apply the stain to the frame with the panel installed? Won’t sanding the frame after assembly with the stained panel installed create a bit of a mess?
Is it acceptable to just assemble the doors with out first staining the panel?
Am I missing any other detail?

Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated!

[Phil Phelps]

Jason, I assemble and then stain. I usually use a brush to apply an oil base stain and it will stain beyond the panel into every nook and cranny. This question has come up many times before and I think that the consensus is build door and then stain.

[Scott Holmes]

I would finish the panels and frames while apart with stain (at least) and the first coat or 2 of finish. Then, I would assemble and apply last coat(s) of finish.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I would finish the panels and frames while apart with stain (at least) and the first coat or 2 of finish. Then, I would assemble and apply last coat(s) of finish.

+1

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[Jason Strauss]

Scott/Kent,

Have you guys done this approach before (I assume so)? That seems like an awful lot of individual parts to handle.

I think I might try one door each suggested way and see how it goes...

Thank you!

[Wayne Sparkman]

Jason:

If you have the 2009 issues of Fine Woodworking, there was an article along about August on prefinishing before assembly.

Reading through that article might help resolve some of your questions.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I pretty much always do as noted for the panel just to avoid any issues with unstained wood showing during contraction cycle. I usually do it on the stiles and rails - depends on the particular situation, I guess. I don't have spray equipment, though - this way, I get much better results when brushing-wiping-padding, and I can often get away without taping off the bare glue joints. I betcha if I was spraying, I'd be moving toward the other way on stiles + rails - hadn't thought that through with first response, I guess.

And yes - it is a lot of parts, but since I'm not spraying, I doubt it really adds much time for me. One other thing I've noticed - glue squeeze-out wipes up very nicely with a damp rag when there are a couple-three coats of shellac already down.

[Michael McVerry]

This is my first post here fellows, and I am No Expert. I really appreciate this forum and the opportunity to learn from you all and the subject of this thread is something that intrigues me greatly.

I am not in the midst of a cabinet re-finish project but that is not far off for me. I am, however, in the process of another project which requires assembly after the initial cutting/routing (of both pine and MDF depending on the order/design/finish).

I have certainly come to the conclusion in that case (especially with the MDF which takes paint much better/inexpensively than pine, or other wood products we use).... that... I have concluded that painting ALL THE WAY UP TO poly/shellac is best done BEFORE ASSEMBLY. This way there is no 'cutting in'. Assemble as finished and then proceed to final coating of - in my case - either gloss or satin poly.

These are rather High Volume products, however, or at least that's how we intend them (we're not even at website yet but we'll get there soon).

I doubt my advise/opinion will be applicable or helpful to your specific problem, although I'm hoping that participating in this discussion might be of some aid to your process. I enjoy reading the forums and look forward to participating as I am able.

I do admire your thorough approach and inquiry on how to do it the best possible way you can. It seems like somebody learned you well, in that you know that resources are not to be squandered. I wish for you the best outcome on your project you can achieve, and only regret I am not capable of providing better insight to your question. And it's great for me to see questions such as yours and people working on such projects.

[Phil Phelps]

I have certainly come to the conclusion in that case (especially with the MDF which takes paint much better/inexpensively than pine, or other wood products we use).... that... I have concluded that painting ALL THE WAY UP TO poly/shellac is best done BEFORE ASSEMBLY. This way there is no 'cutting in'. Assemble as finished and then proceed to final coating of - in my case - either gloss or satin poly.
.

I certainly don't want to deviate from the OP, but could you be a little more specific about your use of MDF? Are you using MDF as the panel in doors and painting them first?

[Michael McVerry]

I certainly don't want to deviate from the OP, but could you be a little more specific about your use of MDF? Are you using MDF as the panel in doors and painting them first?


Thanks for your reply, Phil. On this project (I have two underway plus kitchen in a fledgling woodshop but I have experience in lighting and metal finishes; which crosses over somewhat here but not much).

We are making DESK EASELS with FLOATING SHELVES for both residential and commercial applications/markets. We're about 6 prototypes in, not counting one being cut today. We have a full set of router bits, table saw, chop saw, drills, air guns, jig saw. We are attempting to patent it so I can't be too specific just yet (we doubt there is much copyright/patentability to it but we're awaiting advise). I have 6 computers here but the 98 machine was the one that handled my camera and I am awaiting a part to get it back running or I will purchase new camera soon - so I can show photos of them. They are going to be LOW PRICE items, under $200 (this concept).

I like working with the MDF because it routes so easily, smoothly, and it takes paint VERY WELL (we're going to get a sprayer for the recently purchased compressor; I have a fellow working with me who has much more experience than me, journeyman carpenter).

What we have found, which is not rocket-science, is that we are MUCH BETTER OFF staining/or/painting PRIOR to assembly on these items which we call 'FINGERNAILS'. We do them in variable colors. Cutting in afterward is a big waste of time, and it's nearly impossible to get it 'just right'.

By the way fellows, my name is Mike and I am in North Carolina on the coast. I appreciate the opportunity to participate and learn from all the fine people on this board. Thank You for having me. I've got alot to learn.

[Phil Phelps]

By the way fellows, my name is Mike and I am in North Carolina on the coast. I appreciate the opportunity to participate and learn from all the fine people on this board. Thank You for having me. I've got alot to learn.

Okay, it now makes since. However, I have no idea what you are doing, but it isn't a cabinet door. Carry on, sir. ;)

[Jason Strauss]

Well, Guys, after a couple good nights of sleep and some carefully consideration, I think I’m going to go with the full assembly first followed by stain and finish approach. It seems to me that I would need legions of assistants and oodles of time to accomplish the other method. See as how I lack both legions of assistants and oodles of time, and that I’ll be spraying, the full assembly approach will work best for me. The stain is very light in color, and the kitchen space is very dark. So, whatever small movement there is will likely not effect the appearance on the doors too much. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mean this to knock the other approach, I just think this will be much more efficient given my constraints.

Thanks for all your input as it certainly had gave me something to ponder over the last few days. As this is my first paying gig, I've tried to approach it from a very thoughtful and hopefully, professional standpoint. I do, however, have to consider my own limitations and time. Again, thank you!

Oh, and welcome to the Creek Mike M! Your words about this being a helpful and frienly group are absolutely true!

[Jason Strauss]

I forgot that I had taken a couple of "project progress" pictures for the customer. This one shows some of the dry-fitted door frames with their corresponding panels sitting behind them. The panels will be receiving the backcut and beading detail today. The hickory sure looks good, but it's been a bear to work with...very hard on the tools.

Cheers!