Grizzly tools and tons of questions

[Glen Butler]

When I first heard about Grizzly tools, it was on this forum several months ago. The threads I did see were of individuals who had problems with a casting, which gave Grizzly a bad name to me at that time. I have always been of the mind you get what you pay for, so stuck my chin up at Grizzly tools.

But now it seems that everyone here loves Grizzley tools. They appear to be a great price point. Even with getting the great deals I got on my current setup I could have done better with Grizzly. Bottom line is, I regret not doing a more thorough investigation of Grizzly tools before I laid down the cash for what I have.

There are many tools which I don't have, and I guess I would like this thread to be about getting a better feel for Grizzly tools as a whole, so I will not name the tools I am looking to get. I understand that different brands may have an area in which they shine so feel free to list Grizzly's shining star tools, and why you feel that way. I have used various Jet, Delta, and Powermatic tools, which has given me a feel for the brand as a whole and how they do things. I have also heard a lot of propaganda for buy american. Is anything american anymore? General tools maybe? What else?

I don't want to bash any brand, because I know that any company will have RMA's and warranty issues. It just seems to me that there has to be something allowing for the lower price point. Are you more likely to get poor machining? Do the handcranks, worm gears, adjusting mechanisms in general not work as well or as smoothly as other brands in a higher price point? Are the castings not as beefy? Are the tools harder to true and keep true?

I would like Grizzly tool owners to tell me about their Grizzly tools, and how they compare with brand X that they have also used if applicable. Only give a comparison if the two tools were similar enough. (i.e. don't compare Grizzly's 20" planer to the dewalt benchtop that you used to have.) I would doubly appreciate shop owners (commercial endeavors) contributing to this and I would like to know from everyone how often they are in their woodshop.

[Rick Fisher]

Glen.. the main reason that Grizzly is so much cheaper is they are the retailer and the importer..

Delta, Powermatic and the rest are importers, who then sell to retailers.. One more hand in the cookie jar = higher prices..

General is a Canadian company.. There are two lines, General International and General.. The General is Canadian made, but priced like European machines.. Other than the 350 table saw, most are very expensive..

The General International is varied.. some is green Powermatic.. some is green Jet, and some is unique..

Shop Fox and Grizzly are related companies.. Shop Fox is the color that is sold to retailers.. Grizzly is sold direct.. I have a Shop Fox cabinet saw.. Its a basic saw, nice and heavy.. about 7-8 years old .. and dead reliable..

I believe that rather than buy brands.. you should buy each tool by its merits, and by the companies reputation for customer service..

For Jointers.. Grizzly is great .. I would call Jointers one of there strongest suits.. Grizzly bandsaws are also well regarded.. Again, a Grizzly strong suit.. Grizzly is also good with Wide Belt sanders.. huge selection, good machines.. There are loads of great Grizzly machines.. These are just examples.

If I where buying a mortiser.. I would look at the General Int. Floor model. I believe its one of the best.

In drum sanders.. Both Powermatic and General Int. sell the 25" with the 6" drums.. probably one of the better double drums around..

Overall, I would not think of Grizzly as a cheap brand.. Some of there machines are as good as any Asian import..

The one place where I think Grizzly is not "top of the heap" is cabinet saws.. I have one, so I can say that.. :) Grizzly has the best pricing .. bar none.. and they are fine, capable saws.. but Powermatic and General probably hold the #1 position.. I would take General because its domestic.. but the Powermatic is a heck of a saw.. (not inc. SS) ..

If your not into Euro machinery.. I would look at what Grizzly offers every time..

[Rick Fisher]

One thing I should have added was customer service.. Most people give Grizzly 2 thumbs up for C/S. I think that is really important. The President of Grizzly is a member here.. he cares and if there is a problem, he will get involved..

None of the "big names" you see in North America run big factories in Asia... They buy from factories.. Customer service is a big deal..

[Jeff Duncan]

I agree with the point about judging on a machine by machine basis. Powermatic makes some good machines, and some average stuff. Same for most of the other companies out there. You can't expect every machine from any given company to be the best value for your dollar and be of good quality. A lot of Grizzly products seem to get glowing praise on these forums, my experiences haven't been as good. I've also bought other import machinery that has been less than stellar also, so it's not just Grizzly I now shy away form.
I was spoiled by working in a large shop where all the machinery was top notch. When I started outfitting my own shop I bought a fair amount of new stuff, Grizzly, Bridgewood, Powermatic, and even a Delta here and there. All stuff made in this millenium. Gradually I'm replacing all of it with older equipment mostly of either American or Italian origin. Some of the machines were decent, some pretty good, some poorly designed garbage. But none could compare to the top of the line machinery which new cost 2 or 3 or more times as much and was out of my reach. But by going to the used market, I can now afford those machines.
There is always this desire to think we're buying the best stuff available and getting it for short money. Well, it doesn't really work like that. If your buying it new, your very likely getting what you pay for. On the other hand if your doing woodworking as a hobby, you probably don't need to own a shop filled with Martin or Northfield equipment. You need to decide what is most important to you in order to make a wise purchase. In my shop it's important that the machines are running every day or I lose money. It's also important that I can squeeze every bit of capacity out of the equipment to the point where lighter duty machines would not likely last too long. This is why spending more on a piece of equipment is not a problem for me. Though here's the catch, most of the used industrial machinery I've bought has been significantly cheaper than the lighter duty new Asian imports;)
good luck,
JeffD

[Fred Belknap]

I have a shop with a lot of Grizzly green. It is good quality tools mostly. I recently bought their G0462 lathe and am disappointed with the quality. Also a few years back my wife got me a grizzly table top drill press. It is a complete POS. With that said, the 1023 Ts and the 8" jointer are excellent machines. So you don't always get what you pay for. It is best to do as you have and check with people who use them. Research and research and still sometimes we make decisions that are less than perfect. :)

[Cliff Holmes]

I have a mixture of Grizzly, Powermatic, and Jet. In general, Grizzly gives the most bang for the buck by far. IMO, PM outdoes Grizzly in ancillary areas like wheels, knobs, guards, where PM tends to have stuff made directly for them and Grizzly uses commodity parts.

I have to disagree with Rick on cabinet saws. I messed with a PM2000 saw quite a bit before getting a Grizzly. I think my 1023SL outfitted with a WWII blade and Incra fence is a better machine and I'm still about $700 below the PM2000.

And it's not like I'm adverse to PM or spending money, as my latest purchases were a 3520b lathe and a Festool drill.

You have to look at each tool purchase individually. In some instances, like the tablesaw, I didn't see enough extra value to justify the PM. In others like the lathe, the PM was well worth the +50%. You can't just say "Brand X will always be better than Brand Y". Given the right circumstances, your best bet would be Harbor Freight!

Check with Grizzly, they used to have a referral program where they'd hook you up with a nearby owner of whatever equipment you're considering for a face-to-face meeting. I wish I'd done that before buying my PM bandsaw.

[Ron Bott]

.
But now it seems that everyone here loves Grizzley tools. They appear to be a great price point.

I think most people try to love whatever tool THEY have. That doesn't mean it is the right tool for you or me. I do think in many instances Grizzly is a good tool for the money. But there is a reason they are cheaper, more than just the "sell direct, cut out the middle man" concept that many seem to think. The best advice is to look at as many tools as you can before purchasing. Even better to try before you buy, but that isn't always possible. One of the reasons I have yet to buy a Grizzly tool is I am unable to see them in person. I think it is crazy to spend that kind of $$ on a new stationary piece of equipment sight unseen, but maybe that's just me.

[Jon Endres]

I only have one Grizzly tool, the G0500 4-knife 8" jointer. I have been extremely happy with it, it is accurate and flat and holds where it's been set. The rest of my shop is a good mix of vintage American iron (Powermatic green, older Delta and Walker-Turner), newer Delta Unisaw (early 90's vintage) and bandsaw (14" Delta Platinum, also 90's vintage), and my thickness planer is a 13" Ridgid. I have bought machines mostly based on feedback from forums like this, the old rec.woodworking newsgroup, and personal preferences. I am not in the market for any new machines right now, but if I was, Grizzly would be one of the first places I'd look. I have a few multiple machines as well, I have an older Powermatic 18" planer, 1939 Delta bandsaw, and two radial arm saws, and I tend to lean toward using the machine that is the most accurate and easiest to use.

[glenn bradley]

It does seem at this time that Grizzly is the most bang for the buck in a few areas. It is just as true that much of the new <insert brand here> stuff is overpriced and just not very good quality. I think this contributes to much of my appreciation for any budget priced tool that looks as good or better than the Powermatic, Jet or Delta that is double (or more) the price.

If there is a store that carries a wide array of these tools near you, go out and lay your hands on them. If Grizzly's prices raise questions in your mind, a look at a brand X, Y or Z and their prices should really raise questions :D.

In the "you get what you pay for" camp, there are certainly exceptions that make the rule. All the main makers have some really excellent products. They also all have some real ducks. My shop looks like Darwin's Grab Bag as I try for the best tool I can afford. This does not always come with the same color of paint.

[David Prince]

I do not think any shop should live by a particular brand or color. I have a rainbow of colors in my shop. Each tool has strengths and weaknesses. I bought a Grizzly tablesaw after researching SS, PM, and Delta. Looking back, I am very satisfied with my decision and would do the same thing again. That being said, I will also say that just because I bought something does not automatically bond me to that tool. Sometimes what you think will be a great tool turns out to be crap and vice-versa.

[Philip Rodriquez]

As others have said, it all depends on the tool. I have a 10" jointer and a 15" planer. Both required more setup time than I would have liked... but they have kept their settings ever since.

For example, my jointer's SC was out .005" (front to back) from the table. A few minutes with a wrench, some shim stock, and I was in business.

For the planer, the SC was absolutely perfect to the table. Everything else (both feed rollers and the bed rollers) needed to be completely re-set. Not a big deal, but there was a learning curve and the manual was not very much help. Since then, it has been perfect!

With that said, I've also purchased some F style clamps from them... they were not very good :(.

In the end, I think they offer a good product at a reasonable price. After all, many of their machines are made in the same factories as their competition.

[Jim Riseborough]

I started in HS with a craftsman 4" jointer, and contractor TS. The jointer lasted me about 15 years, but not too much use. I upgraded to a Ridgid 6" jointer and put a spiral blade on it. Its fine for now. The TS was replaced this Xmas with a Grizzly cabinet saw. The craftsman did its job, made some nice projects, but as I get into it more, I found that the precision wasnt there. Same with a benchtop planer. Upgraded that to a 15" Grizzly which has a shelix head, and it is perfect for what I do.

As I get more into it, perhaps I will feel that I needed a powermatic, etc, but I feel the Grizzlys are a vast improvement to what I had.

I have a 12" sliding Ridgid miter saw, which is perfect for what I do too.

[Glen Butler]

One of the reasons I have yet to buy a Grizzly tool is I am unable to see them in person. I think it is crazy to spend that kind of $$ on a new stationary piece of equipment sight unseen, but maybe that's just me.

This is exactly my problem. I can't see them in person, feel the adjustments, turn the knobs, and kick the tires.

[Paul Ryan]

I agree with most of the others. It is hard to stick to one brand. Because each brand does makes good tools and bad tools in my opinion. In my opinion grizzly table saws are probably the best bang for your buck, but leave plenty to be desired when it come to creature comforts. Bang for your buck I dont think you can beat a grizzly band saw. They make just about every size and configuration that a hobbiest to intermiediate shop could ask for. Most of grizzly's tools are excellent middle of the road machines. There are plenty of better machines but many many that are worse. I have a mixture in my shop, delta, jet, grizzly, ridgid, and powermatic. The hard thing about grizzly tools is putting you hands on one of them before you buy. I usually like to kick the tires and check it out before I buy. And with grizzly you have to worry about freight damage. Customer service will usually take care of you but it can be a big headache. Usually you cannot beat the customer service of a local store. And to me that is worth extra $$ alot of times.

[Cary Falk]

I also have a ranbow of colors in my garage. I have Craftsman, Shop Fox(8" jointer), Steel City, Jet, Delta,and Grizzly. I have the G0513x2 bandsaw and the G0453 18/36 drum sander.I started with mostly craftsman tool. I then moved up to Delta. Most ost of my delat sturr is being moved out because I am not thrilled with them. I will probably only keep the Unisaw. I currently have 2 tools left on my wish list and they will probably be Grizzly. One is a 15" planer and the other will be an edge sander.

I don't think Grizzly has the answer for everything. I have never been impressed with the features of their drill presses or lathes. The tools I have do hold their own in the fit and finish department with all of my other brands.

[Rick Fisher]

Glen..

I realize this is a thread about Grizzly, but I really agree with Jeff about looking at the used industrial market.

Nothing wrong with the Asian machinery.. I have lots of it.. I must say however that I have been slowly replacing it all with used Industrial machinery as well.. (used or heavily discounted) ..

There is a huge difference in actually using the machinery.. I have 4 pieces of Euro Machinery now and they are my 4 favorite tools in the shop.. not because they are Euro, but because they are so capable and well built..

Right now, and during the past few years, there have been great bargains on industrial machinery.. Those days will come to an end when the economy turns around.. I really think that we will see a shortage of machinery in the future.. Production levels and inventories have all been cut, globally.. when demand heats up again.. Used machinery will all get snapped up...

You often have to deal with 3 phase motors, but after deal with that, you usually end up with a truly great machine.. I have an 24" Italian bandsaw .. Its my favorite tool.. I plan on owning it until I am too old to use it .. It will still be running fine, long after I am not.. lol..

The best part of buying industrial, especially if you restore it, its already been heavily deprecitated. I have a 12" Griggio Jointer that I picked up as a demo .. 2007 model year.. for 50% off the market price. In 5 years, it will probably be worth what I paid for it.. I have a friend who picked up a used 12" SCM Jointer for under $1000.00 .. he restored it to beautiful condition.. its worth much more than he paid today, and its a terrific machine..

If you buy new.. you lose 30% - 40% the day it arrives.. that is the deal most new things.. If you can get a used, industrial machine for the same money.. its something to consider. .

[Harlan Coverdale]

For example, my jointer's SC was out .005" (front to back) from the table. A few minutes with a wrench, some shim stock, and I was in business.

For the planer, the SC was absolutely perfect to the table. Everything else (both feed rollers and the bed rollers) needed to be completely re-set. Not a big deal, but there was a learning curve and the manual was not very much help. Since then, it has been perfect!

OK, I give. What's an SC? :confused:

[Cary Falk]

OK, I give. What's an SC? :confused:
SteelCity Toolworks

[Jason Hanko]

This is exactly my problem. I can't see them in person, feel the adjustments, turn the knobs, and kick the tires.

Dont forget that you can call Grizzly and they will give you a list of owners of a particular machine in your area. Also, you could also always locate and visit your local shopfox dealer, as these are essentially Grizzly machines with different paint.

I own several Grizz machines (G1023 TS, G0555 Bandsaw, G0490 Jointer) and I think they're all a great value for the money. Granted Ive never owned a Powermatic or General, but each of them represent GIANT steps up in quality from the machines they replaced (ie: Jet contactors TS).

[Alan Wright]

For a hobyist, Grizzly has pricepoints that can get you into a relaible machine that you might not otherwise ever be able to justify if your only other option were the more expensive european machines.

I'm an insurance agent who has a nice woodshop. I have the 1023 Griz tablesaw that I paid about $1,100 for. I've been very happy with it. If my only option was a $2,500 saw, I probably wouldn't have one. I wouldn't be able to justify the cost, and I'm quite certian my wife wouldn't be able to either.

Another nod to the Grizzly customer service. I just ordered their G0514x bandsaw this week (I wanted to get if before the free shipping expired). Anyway, it comes with a free gift and you get to pick from a big list of things. I took a closer look at my email confirmation the next day and noticed that I picked some stupid hook thing that they sell for about $14, instead of the router set they sell for about $75, which is what I really wanted. I sent them an email and explined that I screwed up and if they might be able to catch it and change my free gift. Here is the response I received

For your convenience, new order# 5683886 was placed for the router bit set, which will be sent at no charge. Please expect delivery within 3 – 5 business days

I haven't received the saw yet, but the router bits showed up at my door two days later. Hope to get the saw this week. Anyway, I thought that kind of service was nice to receive in this day and age.

[Scot Ferraro]

I do not own any Grizzly Machines -- I am not adverse to owning them or looking at them in the future. For what its worth, I toured the Lie-Nielsen facility in Maine a few years back and they were running several Grizzly drill presses used in various stages of plane manufacturing. This is in an idustrial setting and I think that it is a testament to the quality that you can have with Grizzly. As others have said, all manufacturers have good and not as good tools and I think that it comes down to each machine. Look at the options by type and go from there...

Scot

[Richard Andersen]

[QUOTE=Rick Fisher;1297569]Glen..

I realize this is a thread about Grizzly, but I really agree with Jeff about looking at the used industrial market.


Where does one go to find used industrial machines? I'm assuming these machines are found through auctions? The vast majority of stuff on Craig's List I see is not idustrial machines.

[Mark Ottenheimer]

I have owned and still do own some Grizzly equipment. I currently have a grizzly G1073 16" bandsaw. It works well and I do not have any complaints except it is a solid design and I cannot add a riser block to increase my resaw capacity. I have also owned the 13" portable planer and a small grizzly copy lathe. These products were not really high quality. I have found that if you purchase a lower priced models from Grizzly you will get what you have paid for, but their higher end models are of a much higher quality.

[scott spencer]

Grizzly and Shop Fox are associated companies. In some cases the tools are about identical. I've had great results from the Shop Fox W1677 TS (same as the Griz G1023SL), Grizzly G1029 DC unit, and G1182HW 6" jointer. My little 8" Grizzly DP was too small regardless of what name was on it. A friend of mine has used his Grizzly G1023, G1029DC, and 8" jointer commercially for over 10 years...~ 5 years ago he added a 17" Grizzly BS and likes that tool as well.

Overall, I find most Grizzly machines to have very comparable quality to Jet, GI, some Delta, some PM, Steel City, etc. It's best to evaluate each model on it's own merit though. Grizzly's niche is best bang for the buck, and in many cases they truly are IMO.

Grizzly has excellent CS, and the owner frequents this forum.

Every brand will have some defects and/or problems. Assuming similar defect rates, whoever sells the most units will also have the most defects, but that's very different than having a higher defect rate. It's also important to note that an isolated problem is not representative of the rest of the population, so don't read more into than it is....better to see how the issue is resolved. Lastly, dealers get a premium for their support...they sometimes act as the middleman to resolve issues. If you'd rather be your own middle man dealing with Grizzly CS, then there's likely to be many Grizzly tools that'll suit you. If you'd rather pay the dealer to handle everything, find a Shop Fox, Jet, GI, PM, Steel City, or Delta dealer.

[Gerald Jensen]

I have a Grizzly G0452 6" jointer. The only problem I had was it was shipped with a couple of tiny knicks in the knives. When I called Grizzly's CSR, they immediately shipped me a replacement set of knives. I am very happy with the machine itself, and was delighted with their customer service.

[Stephen Edwards]

This is exactly my problem. I can't see them in person, feel the adjustments, turn the knobs, and kick the tires.

And that's where the combined experience of owners and users of any brand of tools here at SMC is very valuable to us when we consider purchasing tools that we can't do the touchy feely thing with!

As for Grizzly, I have four of their machines. I bought two of them new and two of them from CL. I also have the Grizzly tenon jig, purchased new.

The machines that I have are:

G0555X BS (New)
G0555 BS (Used in new condition)
G7947 DP (Used in new condition)
G0604X Jointer (New, purchased from Griz's ebay store, scratch and dent)

The only machine that I'm not 100% satisfied with is the DP. I'd rate that at 4 out 5 stars. The others meet or exceeded my expectations.

The CS is second to none.

I do have other brands of machines, too. When I have a new machine purchase in mind, I always look first at what Grizzly has to offer.

Hope this helps.

[David Helm]

My Jet cabinet saw was destroyed by a hit and run driver (whole other story). I've had it for 9 years and really enjoyed it. It is being replaced by a new Grizzly 1023 RLX. Several reasons not the least of which I live ten minutes from Grizzly HQ and have talked at length with their people. I have touched a lot of their machines; you should see the showroom. I've also used older versions of this saw in friends shops. Since my insurance company is paying for this, I probably could have gone more expensive, but I like what I see.

[Cliff Holmes]

My Jet cabinet saw was destroyed by a hit and run driver (whole other story)

Oh, come on, you can't just leave us hanging like that ...

[David Helm]

Well Cliff, here is the short version (although I don't like hijacking a thread). About a month ago, I was sitting at my computer in my office (one side of my shop) when there was a great crash and suddenly I was moving with no way to stop. At 9:30 on a Monday morning, a drunk driver in a stolen Suburban lost control and slammed into the other side of my shop, scattering piles of 8/4 maple and smashing many tools. My table saw actually diverted the vehicle a few inches, which saved my life. But the saw lost its life. Unhurt, the driver backed out and sped down the road (didn't get very far because the vehicle was hurt). Took off on foot but wasn't caught till 2AM the following day. Now in jail under $100K bail. I received a bunch of bruises, but am thankful no serious injuries. Shop looked like a Bunker Buster bomb went off in it. It's currently being rebuilt and I'm using an old workmate as an office table in my bedroom for the temporary.