O-1 blades from LN

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

Hi guys,

Hope everyone is having a great Christmas and New Year season. I'm off until Monday!

Now that that gloat is over, my question... :)

Has anyone tried the O-1 blades from LN? I'm tempted - especially for my low angle block plane. I could see value in a really keen edge on this plane...sacrificing some durability would be acceptable if a sharper edge was attained.

What are your thoughts? I'm a bit of a novice yet, so I'm not real familiar with this steel and how new it really is...Is this all that was really used until A2 steel took over?

[Michael Faurot]

The differences and advantages of O1 vs A2 have been recently debated. Look this thread over to decide for yourself:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=127005

[David Christopher]

John, I dont much about the 0 1 but I dont see how it could get any sharper than my A 2. I use water stones up to 8000 then leather with honing compound and it leaves a mirror edge. ..if it got any sharper it would plane things all by its self

[george wilson]

LN told me over the phone some years ago that they only hardened the first 1" of their 01 blades due to problems with warping. I urged them at that time to go to A2 to eliminate blade discards from warping. I'm pretty sure all of an A2 blade would be hardened as there is no warping problem with A2. I harden mine full length in an electric furnace. They are wrapped in stainless steel foil,and must be to keep the air away(or use an inert gas atmosphere),so I don't see how it would be convenient to only harden a portion of the A2.

[James Taglienti]

IMHO sacrificing durability for a keener edge would be a waste of time. You can get a piece of steel insanely sharp, but the finer the edge, the faster it goes from insanely sharp back to just plain razor sharp.

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

IMHO sacrificing durability for a keener edge would be a waste of time. You can get a piece of steel insanely sharp, but the finer the edge, the faster it goes from insanely sharp back to just plain razor sharp.

You probably have a point there...I was thinking along the lines that my block plane is used on end grain more than the other planes...if it was insanely sharp, it would perform a little better. I don't have issues i'm trying to solve, just saw their ad. and thought maybe it would be worth a try. I will probably just pocket my 35 bucks.


The differences and advantages of O1 vs A2 have been recently debated. Look this thread over to decide for yourself:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=127005

I did all my searches for "O-1" as it is shown on LN's website - no wonder my search was fruitless. Thanks for the link!

[Joel Goodman]

I think an advantage of O1 steel for a low angle plane is that it can be honed at a lower angle and still have a strong edge. So it's not a bad choice for a low angle block.

[russ garcia]

I use starret o-1 for my plane blades @ 5/16" thick, heat treat in a small propane forge I made , use a magnet to check for temp and have zero problems with warpage, etc.
I temper in oven @ 350 degrees and the steel comes out as hard a M-2 steel I have. This O-1 seems to hold up the same as A-2 I have on a L-N block plane and smooth plane. I plane some hard woods( birds eye maple, ipe, ebony, rowed mahoganies, quilted cherry).

Russ

[Sandy Stanford]

Hi guys,

Hope everyone is having a great Christmas and New Year season. I'm off until Monday!

Now that that gloat is over, my question... :)

Has anyone tried the O-1 blades from LN? I'm tempted - especially for my low angle block plane. I could see value in a really keen edge on this plane...sacrificing some durability would be acceptable if a sharper edge was attained.

What are your thoughts? I'm a bit of a novice yet, so I'm not real familiar with this steel and how new it really is...Is this all that was really used until A2 steel took over?

If you transported yourself back in time and had access to the Goddard Townsend shops I think you'd have had everything you needed to build practically priceless furniture. They did. The lack of A-2 steel didn't seem to have much of an affect on their output, both in terms of quality and volume.

I've never understood the need for "extremely durable steel" by guys who might get two hours of good, hard woodworking done a week if they're lucky. All the metallurgy hoo-ha is just something to take one's mind off of building stuff. Get a kit of tools together and move on down the road.

O-1 is fine. Better than fine.

I'd worry about all that other Hooray, and Who Shot John when you're knocking out blockfronts and highboys in commercially feasible time frames and generally putting John Townsend's hand tool skills to shame. I don't know about you, but I'd need a few more lifetimes to be able to do that.

[george wilson]

Hardness of the steel is not the issue. W1 will get harder than any other steel I am familiar with. It is still a basic,simple steel,though. It will take the keenest edge,but will not hold it as well as more advanced steels.

Leaving 01 at 60 RC is about the maximum limit that it will perform well at. In fact,I have personally found that 60 RC is too hard for 01 to hold a good edge at. I know some plane makers leave 01 harder than that,but I find that 55-58 RC is better for edge holding. Too hard,and the microscopic edge breaks off,leaving the edge feeling dull.

It is also perfectly true that old masterpieces were made with simple steels. I made most of my work with them. You just have to sharpen more often.

Some of the old timers would have 3 or 4 plane blades for a plane. They would sharpen them in the morning,and change them as needed during the day. I knew a very old English craftsman who did that,back in the early 70's. He went way back,and taught me some of the old time ways and tricks.

[Sandy Stanford]

Hardness of the steel is not the issue. W1 will get harder than any other steel I am familiar with. It is still a basic,simple steel,though. It will take the keenest edge,but will not hold it as well as more advanced steels.

Leaving 01 at 60 RC is about the maximum limit that it will perform well at. In fact,I have personally found that 60 RC is too hard for 01 to hold a good edge at. I know some plane makers leave 01 harder than that,but I find that 55-58 RC is better for edge holding. Too hard,and the microscopic edge breaks off,leaving the edge feeling dull.

It is also perfectly true that old masterpieces were made with simple steels. I made most of my work with them. You just have to sharpen more often.

Some of the old timers would have 3 or 4 plane blades for a plane. They would sharpen them in the morning,and change them as needed during the day. I knew a very old English craftsman who did that,back in the early 70's. He went way back,and taught me some of the old time ways and tricks.

Quick smoke break (pack the old Dunhill and give her a puff or two).... touch up (or replace) the iron..... stretch your legs, go back to work. I can't find a whole lot wrong with that scenario. It's human-scale. All these steels that never dull belong in machinery operated by shift workers, not by men using hand tools and muscle power and who occasionally might get tired.

[James Taglienti]

I have to agree with sandy. Most of my edge tools are vintage, with vintage steel. I build commissioned furniture in my shop and sometimes use a plane for 3 or 4 hours at a time. Hand forged steel is easier to hone, stays sharp for as long as i need it to, and it costs next to nothing. That's enough for me. I don't care if W5 or 02 or whatever it is can last 50% longer than high carbon steel. It's just not worth it.

[Sam Takeuchi]

I think O1 blades from reputable manufacturers would perform well. A lot of people make it sound like O1 blade is an utter failure next to A2, but I think people who prefers to work with the sharpest edge (by maintenance) and hone/strop often would benefit from ease of doing so. A2 can also benefit from touch up honing and stropping, but I think O1 responds better. I think laminated thick O1 blades of the past was perfect for ease of sharpening and hard edge, yet, not hard enough to chip easily. I wish these blades were more readily available today.

As far as durability goes, M2 is one tough metal. I have a M2 blade and it can really take enormous amount of beating where A2 would utterly fail and still keep going. But it's really not for every day woodworking. The balance between edge durability and difficulty (or time it takes to) of sharpening is disproportionate. I still use O1, A2 and M2, but every time I put O1 on sharpening stones, it makes me glad that it's so easy to work with. When it's time to sharpen A2 and M2, I feel sense of dread. A2 isn't so bad, but O1 just feels nicer in use and sharpening.

Though I wouldn't compare stock O1 blades with after market A2. Stock blades weren't all that great, whether they were vintage laminated kind or not.

[Pam Niedermayer]

I'm certainly no metal expert, but did just set up a spokeshave order with LV rather than LN because LV offered same in O1, mainly because I have waterstones and plan to keep using them.

Pam

[Sandy Stanford]

I have to agree with sandy. Most of my edge tools are vintage, with vintage steel. I build commissioned furniture in my shop and sometimes use a plane for 3 or 4 hours at a time. Hand forged steel is easier to hone, stays sharp for as long as i need it to, and it costs next to nothing. That's enough for me. I don't care if W5 or 02 or whatever it is can last 50% longer than high carbon steel. It's just not worth it.

"Stays sharp for as long as I need it to."

Love it! And how true.

[James Taglienti]

Well, Sam, i have quite a surplus of laminated steel, what size are you looking for?

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

I think O1 blades from reputable manufacturers would perform well. A lot of people make it sound like O1 blade is an utter failure next to A2, but I think people who prefers to work with the sharpest edge (by maintenance) and hone/strop often would benefit from ease of doing so. A2 can also benefit from touch up honing and stropping, but I think O1 responds better. I think laminated thick O1 blades of the past was perfect for ease of sharpening and hard edge, yet, not hard enough to chip easily. I wish these blades were more readily available today.

As far as durability goes, M2 is one tough metal. I have a M2 blade and it can really take enormous amount of beating where A2 would utterly fail and still keep going. But it's really not for every day woodworking. The balance between edge durability and difficulty (or time it takes to) of sharpening is disproportionate. I still use O1, A2 and M2, but every time I put O1 on sharpening stones, it makes me glad that it's so easy to work with. When it's time to sharpen A2 and M2, I feel sense of dread. A2 isn't so bad, but O1 just feels nicer in use and sharpening.

Though I wouldn't compare stock O1 blades with after market A2. Stock blades weren't all that great, whether they were vintage laminated kind or not.

This was sort of what i was wondering. I didn't want to ask directly because it opens up a whole storm of sharpening threads, which i tend to get tired of. Not that I don't like learning new ways, but I have my method which works well and i don't need to read about microns and exact perfection of sharpening.

I use waterstones 800, 1200, 8000. I sometimes have difficulty getting my LN A2 blades to respond and get a wire edge on the back. Sounds like the O1's will maybe sharpen up a bit easier and take and edge well.

I guess I'm now thinking spending a couple bucks to try one out won't hurt anything. If anything it will expand my knowledge base and experience.

Thanks for all the input, everyone. Much appreciated!