Removal of Strength Test Video Link by Admin.

[Jim Lindsay]

For the record, we have twice posted a link to a technically valid strength test video that is intended to correct a previously published non-valid test, and twice it has been removed by the admin without any reason given. A pm sent to the admin went unanswered.

Mike, Dowelmax.

[Josh Reet]

Slagging the admins in public is hardly a way to get them to see things your way. Nobody likes that sort of thing, you wouldn't either. And hey, they don't owe you anything in the way of an explanation, it's their website. "Free speech" doesn't apply in private enterprise. You want to make the rules? Start your own site.

Pretty low-class in my book.

[Mike Henderson]

I expect the reason they pulled it is that it's considered advertising. And coming from a vendor, it has at least a whiff of bias. When a vendor does a product comparison, the parameters of the test are generally carefully chosen to favor the vendor's product. And then, if the vendor's product does not come out on top, the results would not be published.

So any comparison product test performed and presented by a vendor is usually seen as just advertising hype, and not to be taken very seriously.

Mike

[Cliff Holmes]

Well, *if* he's being accurate and someone posted something that inaccurately portrays his product or whatever, I'd be kinda ticked off if my rebuttal kept getting deleted with no explanation. I presume it's the "commercial link" policy, but simple courtesy in explaining why would be nice.

[Mike Henderson]

Well, *if* he's being accurate and someone posted something that inaccurately portrays his product or whatever, I'd be kinda ticked off if my rebuttal kept getting deleted with no explanation. I presume it's the "commercial link" policy, but simple courtesy in explaining why would be nice.
It's a response to the Fine Woodworking joint test done some time ago. If they want to contest the results, they should contact Fine Woodworking, not try to use SMC.

Mike

[Josh Reet]

Well, *if* he's being accurate and someone posted something that inaccurately portrays his product or whatever, I'd be kinda ticked off if my rebuttal kept getting deleted with no explanation. I presume it's the "commercial link" policy, but simple courtesy in explaining why would be nice.

Yeah, maybe it would.

But again, it's not our site. We don't get to make the rules. Posting a public complaint about moderator/admin actions is low class. There is absolutely no purpose to a post like this except to pull the admin's pants down in public and try to make them look stupid for doing something. It is absolutely staggering that grown adults sink to this sort of level.

We aren't in a schoolyard here. Someone has a problem, handle it like an adult. They don't like the way the place is run or how problems are handeled? Go find somewhere else to hang out.

[Josh Reet]

And yeah, it's very likely the "no advertising" rule. And just how hard is that to figure out for a business? It's not like the rule is confusing.

If people could just post promotional videos for their companies whenever they wanted in the forums, why would they pay to advertise or sponsor the site?

[Pete Bradley]

Apparently the message wasn't clear enough the first time your video was deleted? I'm sure your link would work fine as a paid advertisement.

All of the tests seem "non valid" to me. There's going to be variation in any test on wood, yet Dowelmax posts the result of a single 4" dowel test like it's gospel. More fundamentally though, none of these tests has much to do with the realities of use in an actual piece of furniture. It's not about steady load in a single direction on a new joint, it's about years of cycling in multiple directions from both use and seasonal humidity changes. How many dowel joints fail with a bang as opposed to loosening over time?

Fine Woodworking went on a couple year bender of pseudo-scientific reviews, and this one is less egregious than most but still questionable. If several types of joints are strong enough for the purpose, then any inherent strength difference between them is moot. Real differences might be which can be made faster or more accurately, and which for a given example will stand the test of time. I sincerely hope they'll stick to woodworking going forward.

[Cliff Holmes]

I really disagree with the "policy", especially since it's not uniformly enforced. Yes, it's their site, but a nonsensical policy isn't any less nonsensical just because it's the owner doing it.

[Cody Colston]

I used to get upset when I didn't agree with the policy or actions by the admin of this or any other forum.

Now? Who cares?

There are lots of ww forums on the net if you are unhappy with this one and plenty of woodworkers to replace those who get disgruntled. As was said, dissing the admin in public won't do anything but get you banned along with your tests.

I read the FWW joint test and I also read your objections. For the record, I doubt that anyone will stop or avoid using Dowelmax joinery based on those test results. I think you are overreacting rather badly.

Anyway, my advice, FWIW, is to just let it go.

[Glenn Clabo]

Discussing reasons for moderation of threads or posts serves no purpose but to stir the pot and is against the TOS. A warning has been given to those who don't agree with the TOS...which you agreed with when you signed up.

The reason the thread was moved to the Moderators Forum was (we don't delete threads)...it's an ad...and the poster has an interest in the product. If the manufacturer wants to place place an ad...talk to Keith. If the manufacturer wants to dispute a test that some other tester published...talk to that publisher. We have some manufacturers trying to get free ads while some support SMC with their ads. We fought a long battle to keep SMC free of ads...but less than 6% of the membership found the $6.00 was worth the attempt.

AND...all us mods have real lives (I'm on vacation myself right now) and clearly aren't able to keep up with everything that happens here ALL the time. If you have a beef with what we do...PM us and give us a chance to answer before you get all huffy about the policy (again...that you signed up to btw) and publicly question us. How would you feel if you were treated like that in front of 11000 people?...Which is how many active members there are here on SMC.