Was my advice right or wrong?

[Kent A Bathurst]

Some background:

I have been helping a good friend get set up with a general-purpose shop in half of a 2-car garage with 12-foot ceilings and no heat. And limited elec power with no 220. Helped him build a nice counter for CMS w/ Kreg stop system, and a workstation. Had his wife buy him a nice bench-top DP for Christmas, and clapms-clamps-clamps, I gave him an unused palm sander, I bought and tuned up a cheap LA block and inexpensive chisels, etc as a present. Also had him buy Starret combo square, countersink bits, yada, yada,yada. He has a DW circular saw, and I printed some "how-to" articles on a shop-made guide for it, which he did. This is the sum total of his WW experience.

This is at their second home (future retirement site) that they go to on weekends, so project progress can be slow. Plus side - his neighbor and friend is an electrical contractor, so power could be dealt with for a reasonable price.

There is no chance in the forseeable future (few years) that he will be in a position to start using rough lumber. In the next year or so, his focus is going to be on bookcases, shelving units, etc out of plywood, including hardwood veneer (I had his wife buy him edgebanding trimmers and an iron).

The issue:

He is now all of a sudden talking about a tablesaw (been visiting me + my shop too much, maybe), and he hasn't built Cabinet One. I said "Absolutely not. You don't need one, you don't have a DC, you will need to run power, you will create an unholy mess in the garage. Everything you are going to do for at least a couple years could be done just as well - likely better - with the Festool TS EQ stuff. Plus you have that boat at the dock, which can consume all the spare money you feel like throwing around."

Feedback, please?

[Myk Rian]

If he wants to build cabinets, he'll need a TS.
How old is he?
Is he inclined in the way of using tools safely?

[Jeff Monson]

I think in his situation he would be better off with a 110 volt contractors tablesaw than a track saw. While they are nice the track saws are really only good for breaking down sheet goods, while a tablesaw is soo much more versitile, even without dust collection.

Thats how I started out, a delta contractors saw with no dust collection. It got me by and I could do any cut I needed, I now have a track saw also and it only comes out for sheet goods, it doesnt get used alot, but I'm glad I own it.

[Lance Norris]

If the man wants a table saw... once the bug bites, its hard to stop. You dont know, but maybe in 2 years, he will have everything he needs and be completely into his new found hobby. It happens to lots of people. Let him progress at his own pace. If I were giving guidence to this friend, I would stear him in the direction of a quality bandsaw instead of a table saw to start with. More versitle and if he is going to be using a guided rail circular saw system, he may not ever need a table saw...

[Rick Gooden]

It's a rite of passage, let him get a table saw!

[Kent A Bathurst]

If he wants to build cabinets, he'll need a TS.
How old is he?
Is he inclined in the way of using tools safely?

#1. Sorry, Myk - by "cabinets" I meant open-front bookcases, shelf units, etc. All he needs to do is to cut straight plywood components with 90* corners, and use a router for shelf dados.
#2. Too d**n old, like me - AARP sends us recruitment stuff, I'll leave it at that
#3. Hard to judge, but I'd say safe enough. I would insist, with the help of his wife, that if he gets any dangerous big gear, he has to take a WW 101 evening class at a local high school to get educated (which is exactly what I did when I decidd to make the leap).

He does have access to a good lumber store in No Virginia, that also has millwork services - I had him get milled hardwood for the CMS alignment fence. So, if he needs hardwood edging for shelf or carcass, he can get the bits-and-pieces there.

[Chris Kennedy]

He can get a nice contractor's saw or a hybrid without having to worry about running new power. And believe it or not, you can run a tablesaw without dust collection for a while (in my dad's case -- 35 years, in my case, about three).

Cheers,

Chris

[Lee Schierer]

Partially right and partiall off the mark.

I started my woodworking with a saber saw and a router. The day I got my RAS I stepped up in quality of work; but when I added the TS, the radial sets mostly unused and 95% of my cuts are on the TS. The frustration of cabinets not coming out square went away. I think a TS is the way to go. Sawstop makes a contractor type saw now so your worries about inexperience would be lessened with one of those. I also agree with the wood shop 101 class idea.

[scott spencer]

I've liked every TS I've owned....

[Brandon Weiss]

The table saw is the centerpiece of a shop in my mind. I rarely look at anything in a shop, be it visiting in person or mags shows,etc, before I check out the table saw. I cannot imagine a shop without a table saw. I think if he doesn't get a table saw he will be missing out on a lot of shop capability. I use my 2 car garage as my shop. I have only 110v and use a Ridgid shop vac for my TS3650. Works great. I have not done a project yet that didn't touch the TS blade. In fact, 99 percent of my projects touch the TS blade first.

Craigslist is an excellent place to find good TS deals right now as well.

[Jeff Willard]

He does have access to a good lumber store in No Virginia, that also has millwork services...

Wait a minnit! After visiting your shop he wants a table saw, and now he goes to Colonial Hardwoods. I hope you don't expect him to want one any less. Jiri is an enabler :eek:. After seeing the inventory there, and then seeing the "toys" they have, he'll be convinced that he needs the table saw. And the jointer. And the...

I just assumed that it was Colonial that you are referring to, as they are the most complete in both inventory and services around here. If so, it's a good place for a beginner to frequent. A very helpful bunch, with a vast amount of knowledge.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Ruh-roh - I am going oh-fer here.

Do you guys realize what you are doing?? This friend is part of that gang of theives that masqueraded as fraternity brothers and college students nearly 40 years ago.

And you want me to go back to him, and tell him I was wrong in my initial answer.

You have any - ANY - idea what that is going to cost me in terms of "grief + BS"???:eek:

Edit:
Now - PLEASE don't start on the whole SS ritual - I understand all of that - I have one specific question - Is it true that the SS brake will kick in if you run "wet" PT lumber through it?

Edit again: Never mind. The SS video talks about disengage of the brake system. Sorry.

[Glenn Vaughn]

Ruh-roh - I am going oh-fer here.

Edit:
Now - PLEASE don't start on the whole SS ritual - I understand all of that - I have one specific question - Is it true that the SS brake will kick in if you run "wet" PT lumber through it?

The manual says it can happen. It is simple to p[ut the saw in "bypass mode" and make a test cut. The saw will tell you if it would have used the brake.

[Tony Bilello]

I find it hard to believe that anyone would talk someone out of a table saw. For most people it is the most used tool in the shop. A good contractors saw should serve him well. Something in the $700 to $1,000 range with more $$ being better. A good outfeed table also doubles as an assembly table. Without a table saw, I would give up woodworking.

[Kent A Bathurst]

The saw will tell you if it would have used the brake.


OK - Thanks Glenn - I gotta admit that IS cool.

[Victor Robinson]

Some people like to amass a collection of tools for their hobby and never use them.

Some people like to have all the tools needed for a hobby before they can really learn and grow.

Some people like to accumulate their tools as they need them.

But there's one thing all three of those people dislike - being told they don't need something by the guy who has it and uses it! At the heart of it Kent, he wants to be like you. Let him proceed as he wishes.

[Philip Johnson]

I consider the t/s the center of my shop and would never be without one. The problem I have with the track saws is price, for the price of em I can almost get a t/s that will do so much more. So as a first tool I would put the money toward a t/s.

Phil

[Kent A Bathurst]

But there's one thing all three of those people dislike - being told they don't need something by the guy who has it and uses it!

THAT makes perfect sense, Victor - wasn't thinking laterally - just thinking about tasks and methods to get there. It is as if I said "Good for me, but you aren't qualified." Thanks.

[David Prince]

A shop WITHOUT a tablesaw is like the solar system WITHOUT the sun. :eek:

[Richard Dragin]

I said "Absolutely not. You don't need one,

What are you, his friend or his mother?

[Rod Sheridan]

I would steer him in the direction of a sliding table saw, even a small one such as the Hammer K3 or B3 because;

- they can process sheet goods and solid stock

- able to crosscut sheet goods well, and the support for the longer pieces is important as you get older

Your friend sounds old enough to not want to go through the stages of a low priced saw, a medium saw, then a cabinet saw.

Introduce him to a slider, save his back, increase his safety, increase his accuracy and ease of building items.

Sure you can build great things with lesser machines, however why not start out with a machine that can produce flawless results much easier, with less of a learning curve.

Regards, Rod.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Bad Advice........I find it hard to believe that anyone would talk someone out of a table saw......

Tony - not sure I am understanding you - can you clarify your thoughts for me please? ;)

[Stephen Edwards]

You can blame it all on us when you now encourage him to get a table saw. Dust Collection can be added later. As others have said, the heart of a shop, for most people, is the TS.

[Kent A Bathurst]

What are you, his friend or his mother?

Richard - very clever, insightful, and question-specific answer.

Slow day, is it?

Thanks

[Brian Kincaid]

If he wants to build cabinets, he'll need a TS.

Myk this is not true. There are many systems available that are comparable to a table saw both in speed and cut quality.

Start with a guide rail + circular saw then move up to a track saw for more speed. Then assess the need for a table saw. For me a track saw system is much more versatile and more safe.

-Brian

[Richard Dragin]

Slow day, is it?



Since we are both spending our morning online, I guess it is.

[Erik Christensen]

just to argue the other side.....

great thing to get started - runs on 110v, really safe for a newbie, you can do pretty much everything that you can on a table saw except dado (but slower for some stuff), great dust collection with a shop vac, totally portable (use in either house), no garage footprint, perfect for a single person to handle sheet goods, their stuff is modular so get one of their routers and you can use the tracks for dado's,

plus some stuff that is difficult/impossible/dangerous on a TS like -
tapers on small stock, cut 1/8" off the bottom of a solid core door, remove factory edge on a 4x8 sheet, want to edge glue 2 long boards - put them together and run the saw down the intersection - much easier than trying to get 2 10' boards through a jointer (which he doesn't have), plunge cuts in the middle of a panel, etc

[Randal Stevenson]

Do you have a spare/bad lumber blade? Ask him how does he THINK he would use a table saw?

I agree with your assessment, but I would go about it a little different. Find out if he has TWO of something to build, and use your shop to show him the difference (try cutting plywood with the bad lumber blade).
Some people prefer a tablesaw, some prefer a guide system. He doesn't have the experience to make HIS informed decision. After you build together, and he gets an idea, depending on his budget, and the worry about not living at that house (worried about break-in's, etc), I would help him look for a USED tablesaw.

You find laundry catchers, ahem, tablesaws, from all kinds of people on CL, from those who built just a few bookcases, to estates.
Your methodology is sound, he just doesn't see practice what you preach.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Erik + Randall - good points all around. Thanks, guys. Helpful.

I guarantee you the first bookcase he builds will be with current tools, and with me leading the way, both in sawdust and finish parts. Only because I know what to do after mistaking my way up the learning curve all these years, and would like to help him learn.

You are right, I am sure - he THINKS he needs a TS because someone in the household has heard me opine that, with the projects I have led him through, he has the basic skill set to do what that someone wants done - he mentioned she is rarin' to go, so he'd better get a TS. Plus, all the equip he sees in my shop and the results in my wife's part of the house.

You are thinking along the lines of Victor's ovbservation earlier - I was focuset on what is the shortest, most direct path to the end game, and hadn't stopped to think ab out what/why/and wehre he was coming from.

I like the "laundry catchers" line. I know a couple guys that have those very items!!

[Peter Quinn]

I think you were on the money. My BIL wants a TS for basic home improvements and such, I have two extras in my garage in my way and a cabinet saw in the shop, plus a few extra skill saws with shop made guides, and I told him to bugger off! I do this for a living, he has never used a TS in his life, he has never taken a wood shop class in his life, he has seen me use one and THINKS it would be "Handy" to have.

I told him HANDS are handy to have and if he'd like to keep his he aught to stay away from table saws until he learns how to use one either at school or from from me in my shop, or from some reasonably experienced user. I have lent him the SCMS and other tools but the TS stays with me, I won't encourage that sort of behavior. Its a miracle I never hurt myself while I was learning given all the stupid stunts I pulled. I love this man and don't ever want to get that call from his wife asking if I can come over and sweep up his fingers!

I like the advice that he should plan some projects and build a few things with you to see how he likes the tools. It will give you a chance to keep him safe, the two of you a good excuse to hang out, and you can get some things built for his new house. I would have jumped at a chance like that if it were offered to me when I was getting going with wood.

[Harlan Coverdale]

Richard - very clever, insightful, and question-specific answer.

Dang, I didn't know there were such specific rules and protocol and such here. The guy made a joke. Relax. :rolleyes:

+1 for the tablesaw. The reasons against one that you listed - 110v power, no DC - sure didn't stop most of us from owning and using the heck out of our first TS. Maybe you started with a 5hp Uni and a cyclone DC, but many others did not, and they manage to do a lot of nice work.

[Tony Bilello]

Originally Posted by Tony Bilello http://sawmillcreek.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=1295549#post1295549)
Bad Advice........I find it hard to believe that anyone would talk someone out of a table saw......


Tony - not sure I am understanding you - can you clarify your thoughts for me please? ;)

What's to clarify? A man wants to build some stuff and get into woodworking and you decided "NO". Think about that for a while and if you still cant figure it out, I will never be able to explain it to you.

[Mike Cruz]

Kent, you read my mind with the SS.

Here's my perspective. TS's are dangerous. WHOA, hold your horses for a sec. What I mean is that without proper training, etc, I don't believe anyone should just go out a buy one. I whole heartedly believe that one should have instruction and training on one before "getting" one. Hey, cars are easy to drive, but without knowing the rules and safety of driving one, they are very dangerous in the hands of the inexperienced. That is why we have and require driving schools. Also, you don't really know how to use a TS until things go wrong (wood pinching the blade, loose pieces thrown by the blade, etc). They can be hard lessons to learn.

Sounds like a good guy that has made it this long in life with 10 fingers (obvious speculation) and enjoys hobby woodworking. It would be a shame for him to regret dabbling in this envigorating thrill we all share all because he thought he HAD to have a TS before knowing how to use one.

So, if he must, a SS is a great choice. OR, go the route most of us took either through shop class, internship, or Grandpa... take a class.

[Keith Christopher]

Originally Posted by Tony Bilello http://sawmillcreek.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=1295549#post1295549)
Bad Advice........I find it hard to believe that anyone would talk someone out of a table saw......



What's to clarify? A man wants to build some stuff and get into woodworking and you decided "NO". Think about that for a while and if you still cant figure it out, I will never be able to explain it to you.


I have to agree with Tony here. I would give him the options and let him decide. He is an adult and it's his money. As a friend, I would advise him on safe use/setup of a TS. We gotta start somewhere we all were TS virgins at one time. Be a friend, he is after all looking to you as a mentor, make a good suggestion (I personally think a contractors saw) and then go over the basics for use/safety.

[Rick Fisher]

I still don't have my table saw hooked up to dust collection.. :o

I have a big dust collector... just never bothered with the TS.. About once a month, I clean it out.. Everything else is hooked up..

[Kent A Bathurst]

I have to agree with Tony here. I would give him the options and let him decide.

Tony + Keith - my apologies - Tony could not have been more clear. I made an attempt to be humorous/facetious and it obviously fell flat.

My friend has no background with which to analyze the choices and make a decision. He is looking to me for input and guidance, as he was with the junk-collecting unused 15-yr-old Sears RAS ("pitch it, and get a good CMS." "OK - what do I get? where do I buy it?"), design and build of the CMS table and stop system, little stuff. When I ask him "what type of things do you see yourself doing over the next few years?" he really doesn't know. The one thing I know for sure is the open-front basic carcass bookshelves out of hardwood veneer plywood - at which time I will provide instruction in edgebanding, finishing, installing (maybe french cleats?).

I spent an hour with him in my shop, putting on the workbench things I thought he needed to get started, like "4 things I wish I had gotten on Day One: Starrett 12" combo, 8" square, Veritas saddle square, fractional dial calipers." He got 'em. I sent him what most of us would consider disposable LA block plane and chisels (tuned and sharpened) - but they will suffice for forseeable future (LV, LN, and Japan WW aren't going anywhere). "Hey - I gotta be able to sharpen - what stuff do I need to get?" "You got two plane irons and 3 chisels - what you need to get is a freaking padded mailer envelope and put my address on it. Next time you're in Atlanta, I'll show you how it's done."

Also - on the Christmas list I gave his wife (and she executed the list 100%) were reference materials, like FWW 2009 Tools, a FWW reference or two on basic bookshelves (or something like that), couple others I forget. Need him to be thinking, not making a knee-jerk move that results in a laundry storage device.

And - we have been best friends for nearly 40 years, even though sometimes separated by 2 time zones. I'm not gonna let him do something that is patently wrong. I am NOT going to be the one to teach him TS safety, either - I want him to spend actual money to listen to a qualified person he never smoked pot with in the 70's while skipping Thermodynamics and Calculus and trying to pick up coeds at the bar in the frat house, someone who has the guards in place on the TS and jointer. I want him to learn from someone who has the "gravitas" to command his attention.

I encourage all you Creekers to continue to toss in your thoughts for me - that is why I'm asking. All are appreciated.

Kent

[Al Willits]

Little confused here, you talk about him spending all his money on his boat and then mention Festool and I think SS???

There are cheaper ways for a beginner to do the same job.
Granted the safety of the SS is a plus.

fwiw I've get by just fine with a Delta Hybrid saw and the EZ Smart guide system with a decent CS and blade.
Saw runs on 110v btw.

If money is a concern, I'd have him start with bare mimimun and also join this forum, adding tools as needed.

The learning curve for buying the right tools can be exspensive and I'm betting you and SMC can help spend his money a bit more wisely.

Al

[John A langley]

Kent - I think that it is his choice:) you said he did not have a DC do not forget you have to empty it.

[Don Morris]

This is the time to teach him about dust collection. Show him what's needed for good dust collection for table saws. Maybe he'll sell the boat and get a cyclone, and a cabinet saw, LOL. But I agree, dust collection in his garage is a must or it'll be a mess. That needs to be emphasized. But DC can be had, just needs to be something like a Hybrid in a cabinet and hooked up to some sort of adequate DC system. Yes he can do all that he outlined with what he has now, without a TS.

[Kent A Bathurst]

This is the time to teach him about dust collection. Show him what's needed for good dust collection for table saws. Maybe he'll sell the boat and get a cyclone, and a cabinet saw, LOL. But I agree, dust collection in his garage is a must or it'll be a mess. That needs to be emphasized. But DC can be had, just needs to be something like a Hybrid in a cabinet and hooked up to some sort of adequate DC system. Yes he can do all that he outlined with what he has now, without a TS.

Don - agreed - he's seen my shop w/ 2hp 2-stage. At some point, he is gonna need to pull more power to the garage.

[Brandon Weiss]

Out of curiosity, how many of you had "formal" training before you bought your TS? I would bet the majority of us have not. I have not had formal training. I get safety tips from reading online, mags, etc. I'm sure this guy can do the same. Why not educate him on the safety after he gets the saw?

Come on, what's next? You set him up with an account on the Creek but tell him he's not allowed to post until he's been a member for a month? This guy is a grown man. He's not a kid. I bet he's even intelligent. So, don't start having nightmares that he's going to put his hand down on the spinning blade. In the end, whose shop and hobby is it? Your or his? If you want to help and pass on your knowledge, MENTOR him. Don't Parent him.

[Todd Hoppe]

The table saw is the centerpiece of a shop in my mind. I rarely look at anything in a shop, be it visiting in person or mags shows,etc, before I check out the table saw. I cannot imagine a shop without a table saw. I think if he doesn't get a table saw he will be missing out on a lot of shop capability. I use my 2 car garage as my shop. I have only 110v and use a Ridgid shop vac for my TS3650. Works great. I have not done a project yet that didn't touch the TS blade. In fact, 99 percent of my projects touch the TS blade first.

Craigslist is an excellent place to find good TS deals right now as well.

Same here on the TS3650 + vac. I doubt I'll ever need another table saw (although I know I'll want one..slider...restore an old PM or delta...SawStop...dream...dream...dream). I will upgrade dust at some time.

[Craig McCormick]

I have run my my whole shop without dust collection for 31 years. I just sweep up with a broom. You sound bossy, let him buy what he wants.

Craig McCormick

[Mike Cruz]

Hmmm, he doesn't sound bossy to me. To me, he sounds like a concerned friend. I would guess, no bet, that the OP knows this guy better than anyone else on this forum, so, if he questioned that this guy should own a TS, there must be a reason for it.

That reason could be that maybe the guy isn't ready for it, or maybe the OP doesn't want to live with the regret that he said "Sure, get a TS, you'll LOVE it!" when he knows he had doubts. Not to mention the regret if the guy had a mishap!

I would certainly take the friendship of one like the concerned OP over someone who didn't seem to care about my well being.

[Don Morris]

If your friend insists on a TS but isn't interested in taking a whole course in TS safety, I would suggest the excellent video by Kelly Mehler on "Mastering your Table Saw". He shows the dramatic effects of kickback and other safety approaches long time users know about and worry that newbees don't have the background to be aware of. I viewed it before I pushed the button on my first contractor saw. Still had a lot to learn from SMC people; but with learned help near by, if he's reasonably intelligent, and willing to listen, he should be OK.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Good insight from all those with on-mesage replies. Interesting comments from the other few;)

My original thinking was - the things he will be doing for at least 2-3 years do not REQUIRE a TS - the track saw would do just fine.

There is no issue re: safety. He will learn as I did - night school shop class. I like Don's video recommendation - thanks. I simply am not the guy to provide instruction on this one topic - he is just as hardheaded as me, and while I eventually get over it when he won't take the boat TO WHERE I AM SURE THERE ARE FISH DAMMIT :D, I live 8 hours away, he is 20 minutes from a town of 7,000, and I am not going to phone in basic technique instructions on things with spinning blades/cutters. Plus, in 10 years, I have cautiously added a couple of admittedly bad habits for a newbie to adopt, (they work safely for me), and that's not proper instruction. If this means I am being a "mother", I can tell you he would say "well, your are halfway correct.":p Remember - this has been going on for almost 40 years - he and I knew each other well before we met the women we are married to - they are the recent additions @ 29 years and counting.

On the original question - you have helped me identify a gap in my thinking. I bought my 220v cabinet saw and 220v cyclone 10+ years ago, and have not had any need or interest in keeping up with the details of advanced TS designs. I could not replicate my setup for $5k. HOWEVER - that is not a comprehensive definition of "a good table saw" any longer.

10" blade with 1.75hp on 115v plus a shop vac or small 115v DC? That is intriguing, especially the hybrid/contractor styles that seem to do a good job with the dust. They're making them like they didn't used to.

I think I will give him a couple alternatives, based on your comments and upcoming searches through SMC for brand comments. ALthough - I could shortcut the entire process and just email the SS Hotdog video clip to his wife, right?

Please toss in more stuff that you think I should know - this has been very helpful, gang - thanks much for taking the time - which is why I posted the question in the first place.

Best wishes to you all for a happy and prosperous new year.

[Chip Lindley]

Kent, I'll just say it out straight! You appear to be a very *controlling* sort. Are you afraid your friend's woodworking output quality will soon rise above your own? Unless you have his "power of attorney" don't presume to make all his decisions for him. If the woodworking bug has bit, tools are the antedote! You may guide him from your own experiences, but do not try to dominate his woodworking future. It's his money; he can spend it as he wishes!

[Kent A Bathurst]

Kent, I'll just say it out straight! You appear to be a very *controlling* sort. Are you afraid your friend's woodworking output quality will soon rise above your own? Unless you have his "power of attorney" don't presume to make all his decisions for him. If the woodworking bug has bit, tools are the antedote! You may guide him from your own experiences, but do not try to dominate his woodworking future. It's his money; he can spend it as he wishes!

On-message. Helps a lot, Chip, with the issue of advising on a major equipment purchase that meets his requirements. Thanks for the insight.

Haven't studied pop psych - is that transference or is it projection? I get them confused.

You should feel free to launch personal attacks via PM, and leave the SMC gen pop alone, please.

Best wishes for a successful new year.

Kent

[Brian Loucks]

Thinking back many years ago when I first started woodworking there was no money in the budget for a table saw. As I got more interested in woodworking and remodeling our new home I took my skilsaw and... can't continue... too dangerous! Did go out and got a tabletop craftsman. Served me well for many years. As for as dust collection a canvas catchbag, a zero clearance insert and shopvac hooked into my RIDGID saw work quite well. Moral of the story run don't walk to get a tablesaw. Dangerous things can happen when we try to rig up power tools.
Brian

[Brian Kincaid]

Dangerous things can happen when we try to rig up power tools.

Brian I am curious, what were you trying to do with a circular saw that was safe on a table saw?

My perspective is I sold my table saw. Since then I have found there have been things that I could have done faster on a table saw, but nothing I could have done safer on a table saw.

Based on my limited experience it seems to me that many people purchase a table saw that is nice compared to the rest of their equipment. They then purchase or create jig after jig to make the table saw perform the operation they wish to complete without thought to the best way to perform the operation (hint: it might not require the table saw)

Do a search on table saw crosscutting sleds. There are many. Tenoning jig, straight-line rip, box joint, resaw, miter sled...
With all of these jigs one could produce nice furniture with only a nice table saw and a lot of time, money, and space to store the jigs.

I can produce nice furniture with less space, less money, and less time (also more safe IMO) using other tools I have acquired for specific purposes to 'replace' the table saw:
track saw: straight-line rip, long rips/crosscuts, miters
band saw: resaw, normal rips
miter saw: short crosscuts, short miters
router and dovetail jig: box joints, tenons
Lots more, but I think this gives an idea not to mention the additional utility of each tool on its own.

-Brian

[Greg Portland]

Last year I built 14' of 8' high bookcases with the TS55, square and a chopsaw. This included the face frame (i.e. narrow rips). It sounds like he won't even need that (going with edge banding).

He needs to think about if he has the space to move the wood through the tool (2x the wood length of shop space required) or if he wants to move the tool across the wood (1x the wood length required). For most people in small spaces the 2nd option is preferable.

One thing that struck me when I started using my tracksaw was how EASY it was to use. You drop the guide down, clamp it & that is exactly where the cut will occur... no problems tuning a TS, fiddling with fences, etc. It is very easy to visualize the cut and know what is going to happen when you turn on the tool. Yes, a TS can be faster if you know what you're doing and have everything set up correctly. However, IMO it has a steeper learning curve than a tracksaw.

[Brian Loucks]

That would be mounting it under a piece of plywood on sawhorses and clamping a straightedge on. Major vibration!:eek:
WARNING DO NOT DO THIS AT HOME!
Brian

[Brian Kincaid]

That would be mounting it under a piece of plywood on sawhorses and clamping a straightedge on. Major vibration!:eek:
WARNING DO NOT DO THIS AT HOME!
Brian

AGREED! Thanks for giving us a laugh in the name of experience! :D
-Brian

[Brian Kincaid]

Last year I built 14' of 8' high bookcases... if you know what you're doing...

Greg if you can pull off 14' of 8' high bookcases and make it look nice then you know what you are doing. :D

-Brian

[Chip Lindley]

Personal Attack, Kent? I think not. As the infamous Yogi Berra is said to have said, *I just calls 'em like I sees 'em." Yogi was a great Pop Psychologist.

Perhaps you could best serve your friend by looking for the best deal possible on a the TS that appeals to him most?

Very Best Wishes for a New Year!

[Richard Dragin]

Kent,
Since your friend is an aspiring wood worker, have you told him about this website?

Happy New Year

[Kent A Bathurst]

Kent,
Since your friend is an aspiring wood worker, have you told him about this website?

Happy New Year


Not yet Richard - good idea. Thanks

happy New Year to you as well.

Kent

[Kent A Bathurst]

Never thought I would get this many responses. There was a lot of good input, and I appreciate your time in responding during the holidays.

I have my thoughts calibrated now, and will move ahead.

Best wishes for the new year.

Kent

BTW - read something earlier today (not here) - someone pointed out that this is a "palindrome" date - 01-02-2010. There are less-valuable uses of your time than the time we spent on our conversation here, I guess ;). Thanks again.