My Handcut Dovetail Practice

[Michael Peet]

I've been trying to learn how to handcut dovetails for the past couple weeks. I did a bunch of line-cutting practice before I attempted a joint. By now I've probably made around 25 joints. They take me about an hour apiece, maybe a little longer. Some days I have time for only one after work (or none :(), some days I can get in 3 or 4.

Over the weekend I "graduated" myself into some hardwoods.

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I've found it's all about the sawing. Removing the waste is easy. At this point I feel pretty comfortable cutting the tails - the cuts only need to be straight and perpendicular to the face (tails first). The pins give me more trouble because the cuts need to be dead on in both planes. I suppose if I were doing pins first the opposite would be true..

The other thing I'm struggling with a little is joint tightness. At first I needed a mallet to close the joints, but my last few I have been able to fully assemble with mostly finger pressure. The couple I've tried to actually glue were disasters, probably due to 1) overly tight fits and 2) old, thick glue. All the ones pictured are dry fit only.

Finally I will add that the saw was difficult to start at first, but is now pretty easy. I did stone the teeth out-of-the-box, but maybe not enough. It now seems mostly broken-in. Or maybe I am?

Anyway, thanks for reading. Pointers always welcome. :)

Mike

[Pat Zabrocki]

Those are some pretty joints! I'll bet you get alot of compliments on these so you might be your own worst critic, but then that's probably why you've gotten so good so fast.
Well done
Pat

[Keith Christopher]

Clearly you haven't practiced enough, do about 100 more and you might be there. *sarcasm off*....Great looking joints ! Well done. All that practice will pay off.

[Greg Lucas]

I was doing the exact same thing the last few days except my choice was to take some pine and make a box after about 4 or 5 test joints. Not the prettiest box around but it is functional and somehow I think you work just that little bit harder when you know it's not "just a test"

[gary Zimmel]

Looks like you have the practice down pat Michael.
For someone that has only been doing hand cuts for a couple of weeks, those look pretty darn good.
They will become quicker as time goes on.
Great job. Now you need to build a drawer!

[David Gendron]

Look like you had some fun... great work, keep on sawing, chopping!

[Chris S Anderson]

Very nice. I, too, have been practicing hand-cut dovetails for 2 weeks, but I only get in maybe one tail and pin done every 2 days. I only have worked with pine so far, but hope to graduate like you did, in a month, to harder woods. Pine is not too hard to learn on if your tools are sharp.

I ran into a problem when my fretsaw blade broke, and woodcraft had none in stock, and no big box stores around me carry them. I have been using a coping saw and chisels, which has very mixed results.

I also cut my thumb with my scriber...who knew that little round blade was so sharp or could make its way down to your knuckle? Ouch.

[James Taglienti]

Those dovetails look great. We woodworkers are our own worst critics for sure. Thats because we are there for every mistake! I have an antique dresser in my house. When it was built, the master joiner cut the dovetails connecting the drawer faces, but he let his apprentice cut the dovetails in the back. The dovetails in the back are hideous. The ones in the front are very nice. But those ones you cut are even better. I have refinished a lot of old furniture in my time and you would be surprised how many joints turn out to be doctored, ie burn in shellac, little strips of wood, etc. nobody is perfect.

[mike holden]

Michael,
Nicely done joints!

The only advice that I can offer re: tightness is that - it depends

It depends on the wood and type of glue you are using, not much help there I know.
For me, and most of my work is pine and mahogany, hot hide glue, I find that the fit should be such that, dry fit, I can take a drawer and hold it by its side and it stays together, but not much more than that.
Keep in mind that a water based glue will swell the wood and tighten the joint while you are attempting to assemble, then as the glue dries and sets, the joint will settle back down. Some glues such as hide, will actually shrink and pull the joint tight.
So if you are going to practice, then practice making a drawer and a box for it in the woods you will use most. (you will find lots of uses for the practice drawered boxes in the shop - believe me)

You are doing quite well, make something useful now and enjoy the kudos you *WILL* get.

Mike

One last piece of advice: Never point out your mistakes - 99 percent will never see them, those that do, well... deal with that when/if it happens.

[Larry Fox]

Very nicely done Michael. I think you are being too hard on yourself but I suppose that is how we learn. I have been doing the same sort of thing over the past few weeks and believe me - I have a pile that is a LOT uglier than the one you have.

[John Keeton]

Great work, Michael! I actually think using hardwood (particularly a hardwood front and softer wood sides) is easier than using pine, etc. Also, looking at your pics, most of those gaps will fill easily when glued and hardly be noticeable. Another trick is to save some sawdust, and rub it into the crack with some glue.

Excellent work.

[Richard Magbanua]

Very nice job! You are right, it is all about the sawing. I read a lot about woodworkers asking about how to make better dovetails, tenons, etc. The number one thing that people can do to improve IMO is to just get in the shop and saw, saw, saw. That's the big difference in hand tool work for me. You can buy a jig for a table saw or router and do well pretty much off the bat, but with hand tools you gotta put in the work and pay your dues. It comes with a reward which is a wonderful skill no one can take from you. I ain't knocking machine woodworking (I'm a hybrid guy), I'm just saying that you're unlocking the magic of hand tools that I've been fortunate to find.
Keep sawing and -
Happy New Year!

[Michael Peet]

Wow, thanks for the kind words all. I've seen a lot of beautiful work on this site and it was a little intimidating posting my own hackery. :D

I would like to make a little box, but I must admit with some embarrassment that I do not know how cut a groove for the bottom so that it doesn't show through the ends of the sides. At least, not without using a half-blind DT (which I want to learn next).

Chris, I think the blades I'm using for the fret saw are actually sold as "scroll saw blades" at my Woodcraft. There were lots of options to choose from and I think I picked up a pack of 15 tpi skip-tooth. I think I might go with something a little more aggressive next time, but these blades have no trouble getting into the kerf left by the DT saw. I found that waxing the blade every couple cuts makes a difference too. Also, yes, I feel like I am going to slice myself every time I use the marking gauge :). Ouch.

John, I remember checking out your thread on your first hand cut DTs with much envy. Pics of my first joint will not be posted and let us never speak of this again :D.

Mike

[Chris S Anderson]

Chris, I think the blades I'm using for the fret saw are actually sold as "scroll saw blades" at my Woodcraft. There were lots of options to choose from and I think I picked up a pack of 15 tpi skip-tooth. I think I might go with something a little more aggressive next time, but these blades have no trouble getting into the kerf left by the DT saw. I found that waxing the blade every couple cuts makes a difference too. Also, yes, I feel like I am going to slice myself every time I use the marking gauge :). Ouch.


Mike

Really? Woodcraft is an hour from me, and I only had 5 or so experiences there, and one was when I bought my fret. The salesperson didn't even know what it was. No big deal. How could you know everything in that store? Well, we found the aisle with the fret saw, but they didn't have the sizable one in their mag, so I bought a fixed one. I asked about the blades, but he only showed me coping saw blades and I could tell he was getting frustrated. He said they only mail ordered fret saw blades. Weird. He didn't know what a fret saw was, but he know they only mail ordered the blades. I guess I'll make another drive up there and see if I can get some better luck with a phone call before I go.

[Rob Young]

but they didn't have the sizable one in their mag, so I bought a fixed one. I asked about the blades, but he only showed me coping saw blades and I could tell he was getting frustrated.

Zona Tools has a nice, inexpensive fret saw and they have some nifty high-tooth-count dovetail/model saws (razor saw). The razor saws aren't suitable for 3/4" work but seem pretty good with the 3/8" and 1/4" stuff.

And back to the original poster, VERY GOOD WORK! :):)

And I have a question. With your practice joints, are you going "all the way" and gluing then dressing them with a handplane? I found on my practice joints (need to get back to more practice soon) it made a big difference if I went ahead and glued and planed the joints. It helped me see more details in the finished work. And I got to practice a little bit of repair techniques too. :D

[Michael Peet]

With your practice joints, are you going "all the way" and gluing then dressing them with a handplane? I found on my practice joints (need to get back to more practice soon) it made a big difference if I went ahead and glued and planed the joints. It helped me see more details in the finished work. And I got to practice a little bit of repair techniques too. :D

Thanks Rob. Yes, on some of the nicer ones I went ahead and planed the ends flush. Some were not worth the effort ;).

I only glued a couple but could not close them completely after applying the glue.

Mike

[Jim Foster]

Great work, and thanks for posting. I would never of thought about marching through the practice regimen you have shown. Now I know how I am going to develop my dovetail skills!

Regarding quality, from a foot away I'm sure they all look very professional. I've looked at "high end" furniture in a few shops that feature hand work and you can find errors, without looking to hard, in joints like dovetails that are filled, fixed, veneer added, etc... So don't short-change your skills, they look pretty good from here!

[Rob Young]

Thanks Rob. Yes, on some of the nicer ones I went ahead and planed the ends flush. Some were not worth the effort ;).

I only glued a couple but could not close them completely after applying the glue.

Mike

They are all worth the effort. :) Because you now have the opportunity to practice fixing "mistakes". We all want a perfect joint but s**t happens and so practicing the fixes is important too.

Even learning about the glue swell is important.

[Stephen Edwards]

Your joints look really nice! Your post is encouraging for me as I await the arrival in a few more days of my DT saw.

Again, nice work.

[James Carmichael]

Another trick is to save some sawdust, and rub it into the crack with some glue.

Excellent work.

Or cut a tiny shim from a scrap of the same wood, and slip it in the joint.

Not that I know a thing about hand-cut DTs, but that's what I saw Tage Frid do in a video:rolleyes:

I applaud your dedication to building the skill, a rare thing in our instant-gratification society.

[Jeff Willard]

I would like to make a little box, but I must admit with some embarrassment that I do not know how cut a groove for the bottom so that it doesn't show through the ends of the sides.

Ever use electrons? If so, check these out. http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=47818&cat=1,46168,46176&ap=1

They work very well. And or course, if you want to do it all as a galoot, there is always this:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=57678&cat=1,230,41182

[Von Bickley]

They look GREAT to me......

[Steve Marcq]

Michael, regarding the grooves in the sides to let in a bottom, I run mine on a router table. The side with the pins is a thru-rout (is that a word?), but on the tail boards you have to start by dropping the sides onto the bit (up against a fence, with lines on it showing the leading and trailing edge of the bit), so that the end of the groove is about halfway along the tail, i.e. half the thickness of the pieces, and pull it off similarly at the other end. The trick is to do your layout so that the groove can run "through" the narrowest part of the tail in question, then it will be invisible.

Good luck!