Woodworkers Journal is at it again!

[Robert Parrish]

I just received a dvd from Woodworkers Journal which I didn't order. They say I can either keep the dvd and pay $9.95 or return it. If I decide not to return or pay for it I can consider it a gift. I thank I'll take that option and also cancel my subscription. I'm tired of these woodworking magazine using these marketing gimmicks. Last year it was a book that they sent me.

[Victor Robinson]

Wait, so they said "pay for it, return it, or keep it for free, your choice?"

[Ben Martin]

I would assume that I received the same one, it says that you need to pay if you wish to receive more, can return it (with well written instructions) or keep it as a "free gift".

I look at it as a free Christmas present, but agree that all of the "crap" I get sent from them is a little ridiculous. I still have the book that was sent "free" last year sitting upstairs un-used...

[Dave Sharpe]

This is simply a way for the magazine to sell videos. They send them out knowing that most of us will toss them or keep them. If you like it, then perhaps you'll buy the others in the series. the one I got asked for $10 or so if I want to keep it, but notes that others will be "at the regular price". I'm sure somewhere it says what that price is, but I didn't see it when I skimmed through the letter. I thought the video was better done than most others (at least the little bit that I saw of it so far), but I don't really plan to buy the set.
Relax and don't get all worked up about a marketing deal. They sent you something for free. Despite the request in the letter you are not obligated, legally or ethically, to send them money for it. You can if you want, but there's no chance of them asking you again for it. There's no need to cancel your subscription over this, or to even get your heart rate up a bit because of it. Pass the video along to a local school shop or someone else who might want to learn about woodworking and forget about it.

[Jeff Nolan]

marketers know that these are exactly the choices someone has when they received a product they did not agree to purchase. There are no legal obligations to pay for something a company sends you unsolicited, and you are under no obligation to return it to them either.

WJ knows this but they also know that a significant % of people will in fact pay for something they did not ask for... so who is being immoral in this equation, me for keeping and not paying for something I didn't ask for and was not sent by mistake, or the company for exploiting for economic gain the good virtue of people in general? You can guess how I would answer that question.




Wait, so they said "pay for it, return it, or keep it for free, your choice?"

[Ken Baker]

As others have mentioned, legally you are not required to pay for or return anything that is sent to you unsolicited. I too received the DVD, and last year the book. I just kept it. I actually received a somewhat nasty call one day from them, asking if I would be paying for it or returning it. I told them I would be keeping it as an unsolicited gift.

[Cliff Holmes]

I don't think anyone's being "immoral". They're taking a gamble. You benefit. Maybe they do, too. Capitalism is a wonderful thing.

[Paul Ryan]

Personally I considered it a gift. All though I have never watched it. But for those that purchase them it probably helps them sleep better at night. But for me it doesn't matter one way or another. The magazine know they will receive very little back from the DVD's. I really don't know why it should bother you. If they said you either need to pay or send it back, then that is a bunch of hog wash. But since you can buy it, send it back, or consider it a gift. Then by all means consider it a gift and don't get your panties in a bunch.

[Michael Gibbons]

If your smart enough to see a scam, then write "Return to sender" on it, stick it back in the mail box and make them pay postage twice.

[Stephen Edwards]

If they ever call you, just tell them: Thanks for the gift!

Yes, capitalism certainly has its advantages. I like it far better than any other system that I've never tried.

[Scott Vigder]

When I received the dvd last year, I sent a "nice" note in the return envelope stating it was illegal to ask for funds from an unsolicited mailing such as theirs, and I was forwarding all information to our state Attorney General (which I did). Funny, I did not receive a phone call from them.

If they are doing this interstate, it is illegal and the Postmaster General does not take kindly to the misuse of his system.

[Ellen Benkin]

In California you are not required to return or pay for an unsolicited "gift" sent to you in the mail. I'm not sure if that's a state or Federal law. When they sent something last summer I just returned all the subsequent mailings with a note that, since I didn't order it I had no intention of paying for or returning it.

[keith ouellette]

I don't think they are doing anything wrong. Like you said you could return it or keep it for free. Your not out anything. I got one of those last year I think. I just kept it and never got another one.

I think keeping it "for free" keeps you from getting another one

[John Coloccia]

Just add it to the AOL disk collage.

[glenn bradley]

Just add it to the AOL disk collage.

Wait, I thought all that useless AOL media was collected and used to start a man made reef off of Florida???

I unsubscribed from Woodsmith Magazine's online tips as they use every 3rd one or so as an advertisement for their books. I am an opponent of any and all junk mail electronic or otherwise. If I want something I'll go look for it, thank you.

This is one of many reasons why I don't have TV service . . . let me get this straight; I PAY for cable TV and still have to watch commercials??? Nope. Just as well; I'm a boob-tube zombie anyway. If I had TV I would never get anything done except expand my waistline :D

[Robert Parrish]

Your right Glenn, the commercials are getting terrible. Now a lot of the online videos make you watch a commercial before playing the video. Also the tv movies use the bottom 1/3 of the screen to bombard you with information. Where will it end?

[Peter Aeschliman]

I actually received a somewhat nasty call one day from them, asking if I would be paying for it or returning it.

Wow, that is absolutely ridiculous. Do they think you're going to pay for it after that?

I personally do think it's immoral. Most of us on this forum are relatively intelligent people so we know better than to fall for it. But there are stupid people out there who do fall for it. That's taking advantage of people, which I think is immoral.

They are playing a numbers game. They probably have figured out what % of the recipients will pay, what the $ value is to them, and how much the total campaign with cost them in terms of mailings and the customer service calls like the one Ken received. They must think they're making money on this.

The problem is that they likely can't measure in dollars or cents how this mistreatment of their subscriber base affects customer relationships and therefore how it affects their subscriber churn. If people are canceling their subscriptions out of disgust, they're probably making less money than they think. In addition, guys like me who aren't Woodworkers Journal subscribers come across threads like this and decide that they'll never subscribe. That's lost volume that they will never be able to measure financially.

But again, it's capitalism. It will work itself out eventually. Hopefully they figure out they can't treat their customers like this just to get a quick buck.

[John Coloccia]

I've had various companies do that do me too, though not in a long time. It's always amusing when I give them my storage fees and ask them to settle up their bill before I release their goods. They can then arrange a pick up. LOL. No takers so far.

[Dave Sharpe]

A: you received a disc in the mail.
B You can keep it, with or without sending them $10.
C. If you like it, you can buy future volumes of the collection.

So what if they sent it to you with "no strings attached" as an enticement to consider buying the rest of the set? Would you still be upset? if so, Why???

It seems the"offense" is that they left you with an option to keep it and pay the $10, even if you don't want the rest of the set. But you don't have to keep it, and they included a pre-stamped envelope to return it if you want.

As far as junk mail goes, I don't particularly want it either. But it's not too much effort to just drop it in the trash can each day. Same goes for all those little cards stuck between the pages of magazines - I tear them all out and toss them as soon as I get the magazine. No big hassle.

On the other hand, all the TV ads that run on the bottom 3rd of the screen, usually blocking something important on the screen..... There's a special place in hell for whoever's responsible for those!

[Stephen Edwards]

.... Also the tv movies use the bottom 1/3 of the screen to bombard you with information. Where will it end?

I can tell you where it ended for me. I called Direct TV and told them to cancel my service. That was 4+ years ago. That's one decision that I've never regretted, not even for a minute. I'm with Glenn Bradley on this one. If I PAY for the service to see shows that I WANT to see, I should not have to endure commercials that I don't want to see, on my dime.

They still call from time to time trying to entice me to sign up again. If I'm in a particularly good mood I'll sometimes answer the call just to have a little fun. I tell the caller that I may be interested if I can order the channels that I want. Then, they go into their spiel telling me which package I'd need to get in order to get those channels. When I tell them, no, you don't understand, I want to buy only the channels that I wish to watch, not a package that includes a bunch of mess that I don't want to watch, they can't seem to understand it. Furthermore, they seem to be perplexed that one can actually have a life without TV in their home. I tell them, if you ever offer a la carte pricing, call me again and we'll talk about it. Until then, I'm not going to subsidize programming that I care nothing about in order to watch the few channels that I would occasionally enjoy watching.

As for the unsolicited "gifts" or merchandise that we receive and are then asked to either pay for or return (I realize that this thread is about a disk that you aren't asked to pay for if you don't want to, just keep it) a friend of mine found a perfect solution for his problem.

He started receiving books from some company that he hadn't ordered from. He wrote to them, in the enclosed self-addresed pre-paid envelope, that he didn't ask for the books, didn't want them and wasn't going to pay for them or return them.

They kept sending nasty letters demanding payment. Finally, my friend packed a box with bricks and affixed the postage paid envelope to the outside of the box and mailed it to this company. I reckon that they got the message because he never heard from them again!

[Peter Aeschliman]

They kept sending nasty letters demanding payment.

That's the behavior that makes me mad. That should be considered harassment.

[dennis thompson]

I got the dvd a few years ago I looked at it & thought it was pretty good. I felt no obligation to pay for it, they sent a few letters, I don't know if they were nasty since I didn't read them & that was the end of it
Dennis

[Doug Shepard]

Just add it to the AOL disk collage.

Those were discs?:confused: I thought they were sending me a free set of coasters one at a time.

[Michael Gibbons]

Keep it and be done with it-just don't respond to any further letters or calls. I get enough crap in the mail that I have to sort through as it is. One lady called me to ask if I would be interested in a free lawn inspection and that they would leave an analysis on my door and that they would call back to see if I was still interested in the service. So about a week goes by and I get the call. She called back and asked if I had received the paperwork and said that I have not but maybe my wife had brought it in and did not leave it where I could see it. She seemed ticked off now. Then I went on to mention that all lawn maintanence issues have to go through the condo association and that she wasted her time and mine because she did not do any research on where I lived and I could not authorize the separate fertilizing of the 10X16foot patch of grass that was in front of my door. She very quickly thanked me for my time and hung up.:D Then there are the callers who want to sell me new windows but I tell them that my house is only 10 years old-OH? Sorry!

[Rick Thom]

The whole idea of 'invasive' marketing,(be it flyers, buck slips, cold calls, TV ads, flashing bill boards or spam email etc) seems an intrusion of personal privacy to some of us. Others just can't seem to get enough. Go figure!

[Brian Runau]

Same thing happened to me. I returned the DVD and cancelled the magazine.

[Paul Saffold]

The first one that I got I kept and didn't pay for. The second time I received one (still the 1st of the series),I sent it back. The 3rd time, still the first of the series, I threw away and have not responded their letters.

It just seems like such a waste of resources.

Paul

[george wilson]

Back in the 70's I joined a book club that sent me a book I didn't order,or want. I did not pay for it. I had paid for other books I did order. They harassed me for a while,but I did not appreciate them sending stuff I didn't order. I also quit buying any books from them after that because of their underhanded ploy. I hope others did the same to teach them to not do that.

[Ted Baca]

I had the same thing and I kept getting follow up letters asking for the DVD or money. When I received the phone call I told them that I sent the day I received it. That it was their responsibility to figure out what happened, suggested they contact the post office and place a trace on it.
I also at the same time cancelled my subscription and told them to give me a refund, that really made them unhappy. It took about 6 months to get abck about 8.00 as my subscription was about up. They send me the "we want you back" re-subscribe letter about every 90 days and I send it back undeliverable.
I don't miss the magazine or the hassles that come with it. I have had FWW, Wood, Shopnotes, WoodSmith and untill recently Amer.WW for years and never had this experience with any of them.
Good Bye and Good Ridence to WJ:mad: