What Is Your Vise?

[Jim Koepke]

This thread was started because it seemed more appropriate than redirecting Travis Chapin's thread asking about a bench he is considering.

Pam Niedermayer mentioned the bench being considered did not have a shoulder vise even though the description calls it a shoulder vise.

My lack of experience with a shoulder vise makes it difficult to understand why and for what reasons a shoulder vise would be preferred.

In many of my projects, the face vise ends up being removed from the bench to accommodate my work. If there was a shoulder vise, it would necessitate doing this on the other side of the bench.

What am I missing about the advantage of a shoulder vise as compared to other methods of work holding?

For me, when planing a long board it seems my hip would be constantly bumping into a protruding shoulder vise. It would also limit my ability to plane wood that is longer than my bench.

Maybe it is the things being made that makes the shoulder vise more appropriate than a straight through vise.

Any illumination on this would be appreciated. Surely, others with an eye to outfitting or building a bench will also want to know.

jim

[Mike Zilis]

I just completed a 6 foot bench with two vices. The face vice is a large Jorgensen and the end vice is the large Rockler version that spans the 24" width. I'm pleased with the quality and functionality of this pair. The only other model I would consider is the 24" wide LN twin screw vice.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/picture.php?albumid=264&pictureid=2607

[Dan Racette]

This thread was started because it seemed more appropriate than redirecting Travis Chapin's thread asking about a bench he is considering.

Pam Niedermayer mentioned the bench being considered did not have a shoulder vise even though the description calls it a shoulder vise.

My lack of experience with a shoulder vise makes it difficult to understand why and for what reasons a shoulder vise would be preferred.

In many of my projects, the face vise ends up being removed from the bench to accommodate my work. If there was a shoulder vise, it would necessitate doing this on the other side of the bench.

What am I missing about the advantage of a shoulder vise as compared to other methods of work holding?

For me, when planing a long board it seems my hip would be constantly bumping into a protruding shoulder vise. It would also limit my ability to plane wood that is longer than my bench.

Maybe it is the things being made that makes the shoulder vise more appropriate than a straight through vise.

Any illumination on this would be appreciated. Surely, others with an eye to outfitting or building a bench will also want to know.

jim

I might be mistaken, but the big advantage of a shoulder vise is the complete lack of any lead screws to interrupt your items being clamped. You can drop something pretty wide straight to the floor. Clamp it up and saw it/chisel it/work it. I might even remember this wrong, but I think shoulder vise comes from clamping it to cut tenon shoulders. So essentially, no bumping into a lead screw to get oil/grease/lube on your beautiful work.

d

[Dan Racette]

http://www.freewebs.com/thenewchinkyworkshop/ShoulderVise.jpg

[Jeff Wittrock]

Jim,

Wish I could be of help. All I can do is echo your same questions as I don't have a shoulder vise nor have I ever used one.

I currently just have a simple leg vise and something of a makeshift wagon vise. There are many times I wish I had some kind of face vice, especially something with twin screws, but I cannot think of a time when I wished that I had a shoulder vice.

Maybe if I tried one I would change my mind? Probably not. It just looks like it would always be in the way.

-Jeff

[Matt Radtke]

My lack of experience with a shoulder vise makes it difficult to understand why and for what reasons a shoulder vise would be preferred.


Reading "The Workbench Book," Frank Klaus explains why. You can put wide boards into the vice without interference a second screw or guide rod and with only 1 screw, you shouldn't, in theory, have any racking. Frank particularly likes them for dovetailing.

They have drawbacks. They don't have the clamping power and it's more of a trick to hold a board for jointing with the shoulder getting in the way. And they can /really/ be in the way.

I've actually been thinking of a crazy plan for when I get around to finishing my bench: traditional tail vise right-front corner, quick release left front, and shoulder vise left back corner.

[Rick Erickson]

Dan nailed it. That is an awesome vice. I wish my bench had one.

[David Gendron]

I guess it realy is a mather of preference. I use a leg vice(Roubo style) on the left front leg, and a quick release one on the right end of the bench. the only thing I would change is the quick release one for a twin screw from LV. the leg vice is, IMO the best vice there is.

[Allan Froehlich]

I have a Pony 27090. It was the lowest priced clamp that did not feel cheap at Woodcraft. I give it an 8 out of 10. -1 for being difficult to tighten for the last 2 inches and -1 for the adjustable dog clogging up with sawdust. Otherwise, it was one of the best ideas for my first workbench and it will probably find its way onto my next bench.

[Jim Koepke]

Reading "The Workbench Book," Frank Klaus explains why. You can put wide boards into the vice without interference a second screw or guide rod and with only 1 screw, you shouldn't, in theory, have any racking. Frank particularly likes them for dovetailing.

They have drawbacks. They don't have the clamping power and it's more of a trick to hold a board for jointing with the shoulder getting in the way. And they can /really/ be in the way.

I've actually been thinking of a crazy plan for when I get around to finishing my bench: traditional tail vise right-front corner, quick release left front, and shoulder vise left back corner.

I think if you do not have your work in line with the screw, you could get racking.

My vises may be the cheapest made. They rack but it is easy to compensate. I can clamp wide boards to the floor and if need be, use a hold fast or clamp on the other side to hold it solid to the bench apron.

My current set up also makes it so the edge of an 8 foot board can be planed on a 5 foot bench.

At times the face vice lends a lot of versatility without the hinderance of something installed permanently.

The idea of having vises of different types all around is one to consider. Surely Harry can show pictures of that again if need be.

jim

[Eric Brown]

I have a Tucker in the left front and twin screw on right end. The Tucker was recessed into the bench so a board can go beyond the ends of my bench. Rotating the Tucker allows clamping wide boards using a dead man and clamps on the 6" skirt. The Tucker also rotates so that the small jaws are above the benchtop. (very handy). My twin screw has 18" between screws and is also used to hold a planing stop. (I work on all sides of my bench). The only thing I would have done different is to buy a second Tucker for another bench. (Wish Rob would bring them back - Emmerts are too heavy to lift on a bench with Adjusta-Bench legs).

Eric

[James Taglienti]

I have a crusty old 10" craftsman vise that i got at a flea market. It has got to weigh 60 pounds, and it opens to a foot. So i put big oak jaws in it. My bench spans the entire length of one wall in my shop, so i don't have a shoulder or end vise either. I have never stopped and said "gee, if only i could clamp from that direction." I use bench dogs a lot in conjunction with the face vise, and clamp things to the bench.

[Mark Roderick]

I don't have a shoulder vise, but wish I did.

When I clamp pieces in my vise, such as to cut dovetails, I have to put a piece of wood of the same thickness on the other side of the vise to prevent racking. It's not a huge deal, but it would be easier if I could hold the piece in a shoulder vise.

[James Baker SD]

I have a Tucker in the left front and twin screw on right end. The Tucker was recessed into the bench so a board can go beyond the ends of my bench. Rotating the Tucker allows clamping wide boards using a dead man and clamps on the 6" skirt. The Tucker also rotates so that the small jaws are above the benchtop. (very handy). My twin screw has 18" between screws and is also used to hold a planing stop. (I work on all sides of my bench). The only thing I would have done different is to buy a second Tucker for another bench. (Wish Rob would bring them back - Emmerts are too heavy to lift on a bench with Adjusta-Bench legs).

Eric

Eric, any chance of a couple of photos of your bench? I am especially interested in how you mounted the Tucker. Thanks.

James

[Don C Peterson]

It all depends on the bench as a whole. I'm not sold on shoulder vises. I prefer a substantial apron (think vertical bench top) with holdfast holes. This setup allows ultimate flexibility in clamping pieces to the bench in the vertical position whether that's for dovetailing, or jointing. A shoulder vise would be nothing but in the way in that configuration.

[Eric Brown]

Here are some links to my bench.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=102856

This one has other benches as well (scroll down to see mine).

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=100611

Eric

[James Baker SD]

thanks Eric.

James

[Matt Radtke]

I think if you do not have your work in line with the screw, you could get racking.


True, but the idea of the of a shoulder vise is that the screw it /always/ inline with the screw.

[Brian Kincaid]

I have heard shoulder vices called 'great for production hand-cut dovetails.' I think one of the members here made a clamp-on version for his workbench for dovetail work. Could be wrong.

I don't have one on my bench. I have a twin-screw face-vice and my diy wagon vice (for tail).

-Brian

[harry strasil]

Well, I am not sure what a Shoulder Vise is for sure, but I basically have 4 face vises I guess,

1. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/nu%20bench/auxfacevise001.jpg

2. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/nu%20bench/auxfacevise.jpg

3. one whole side if I remove the leg vise, and use holdfasts.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/nu%20bench/bnchmove004.jpg

4. And the Crochet vise.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/nu%20bench/viseno6004.jpg

[Harvey Pascoe]

When I set up my last and final shop, I decided that less is more, I simply had too much stuff that needed taking care of so I built one huge 10' long bench as a primary work center and only installed a single Veritas twin screw vice with 22" long jaws. Its all I need. Excellent for jointing long, thin stock. Every vice has its draw backs and selection should depend on whether it fills your needs. What is a great vice for you probably would not be for me due to the nature of my work. I found I can do just fine without all that rigamarole and spending a lot money on fancy stuff. Whatever works for you and makes your work easier is the best way to go.

Is the Veritas a really great vice? No, but it is good value for the price and gets the job done. It sags when opened more than 6" and really needs a better base for the threaded screws, or another set of threaded pillow blocks. After years of use the threads will wear excessively.The adjustment mechanizm for the two sides is adequate. The twin handles can be annoying, as when it stops with handles in up postion, I have to readjust both down. Overall, I'm satisfied with it.

I work professionally and most people would probably be appalled at how I make do with so little. I was pleased to see that others have shops that are messier than mine. Makes my day.

[Jim Koepke]

Well, I am not sure what a Shoulder Vise is for sure, but I basically have 4 face vises I guess,

1. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/nu%20bench/auxfacevise001.jpg




Harry, you are not counting right. That looks like 5 face vises to me. One leg vice and 4 holdfast vises.

jim

[Matt Evans]

Jim,

I had been throwing the idea of a vise add-on to my little bench (the vise in use was a little POS 5" that didn't work well at all). I wanted to see what sort of vise I could make work with a little time, and which I liked best in use, so I threw a mock up together with a combination design..

I decided that a shoulder vise has a place on the bench. But, so does a leg vise, and a tail vise or wagon vise. I plan on building a vice very similar to the one pictured, once I have a functional vise to work with (likely in the next week or two.)

The thing that sold me on the shoulder vise was that it need not be on the side of a bench. Put it on the end of a bench and you have a great vise. On the side I would rather have a different vise or holdfasts, partially due to running into it all the time, partially due to the standoff from the the bench. The standoff isn't bad when it is on the end of the bench, but feels very unnatural when placed on the side.

[David Gendron]

Matt, it look like a good idea... Would you then keep the wagon vise as well? On the left side od the shoulder vise do you have a groove(guide)for the jaw to ride in?

[Matt Evans]

David,

Yes, I will keep the wagon style part of the vise. There is a groove for the left side of the shoulder vice to ride in .

The changes I want to make to the design are relatively simple.
-More robust bench screws (I knew these were too small from the beginning)
-The shoulder vise part will have less travel, I won't be able to clamp as thick a board, but the vise will be more stable.
-the wagon style vise will have a hand wheel rather than a doweled handle.
-The wagon vise needs to be wider, and have more travel lengthwise.

Aside from that, the vise works pretty well. I used dovetails in the corner, and the separation between the vises is also dovetailed. I didn't glue it into the bench so I could change it out when needed. (I don't think I glued any of the dovetails, come to think of it. . .) The design makes it a little more ridgid than a standard shoulder vise, the same way torsion boxes and I beams work. (two points of contact, rather than one long connection. ) Well, it would be more rigid if it were made of a more rigid wood than pine! The pine flexes a bit.

I am also thinking that two nuts on the shoulder vise might work better. If I use two nuts, the screw will have the benefit of the same principle. Might be overkill though.

[Leigh Betsch]

I like it. I've been wanting to build a shoulder vice but I never thought about putting it on the end of the bench. I don't know if I will have enough use for a shoulder vice but if it's on the end of the bench I don't see it being in the way and for the cost of some simple materials I think I'll have one! Thanks.

[jerry nazard]

Jim,

You started a pretty cool thread. Matt Evan's wagon/shoulder vise is a winner. Wish I had thought of that.

I recently replaced an end vise on my bench with a wagon vise. I find the wagon vise a real improvement - should have done that a long time ago!

Happy New Year to all.

-Jerry

[harry strasil]

I am curious as to who or when the term Wagon Vise was coined or originated, I used a screwless wedged version I made to take the place of a tail vise on my original basement workbench that came about in the late 80's. The thread on it is here, http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=40241&highlight=bench