bench dog still worth it?

[dan sherman]

I almost pulled a trigger tonight on ordering a bench dog lift, and then the word "plastic" caught my eye. after some quick digging on SMC I found these two threads.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=1244008
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=1081564

based on Rick's photos it looks like the new 40-150 model is now just face milled (cheaper), rather than ground like the older 40-016 model. the switch to plastic inserts also seems like a cheapening measure.

whats the consensus, is the new model still worth the price?

my fall back is the PRL V2 that has more features, but not the one I really wanted (the ability to screw it down to the bench).

[Leo Vogel]

I own a Porter Cable 7518 router and a Bench Dog No. 40-150 ProLift. I love everything about the combination, but when they redesigned the 40-150 lift, they decreased the size of the insert hole. The PC 7518 will not raised thru the insert hole and allow for above table bit changes without much difficulty or without buying an offset wrench. Their literature states that the ProlLift was designed around the PC 7518, and allows for above table bit changes. Not so. I bought the offset wrench myself.

I contacted both Bench Dog and Rockler about the problem, and Bench Dog sent me a nice letter and said they were sorry, but that is correct. After numerous emails to Rockler they sent me a short note and said they would pass my concerns on the upper management. I never heard back from upper management. Really ticked me off. Just a short note with a $10.00 offset wrench and I would of been happy and forgot about the false advertising.

Would I buy again? Yes, even with the offset wrench.:(

[Stephen Edwards]

I almost pulled a trigger tonight on ordering a bench dog lift, and then the word "plastic" caught my eye. after some quick digging on SMC I found these two threads.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=1244008
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=1081564

based on Rick's photos it looks like the new 40-150 model is now just face milled (cheaper), rather than ground like the older 40-016 model. the switch to plastic inserts also seems like a cheapening measure.

whats the consensus, is the new model still worth the price?

my fall back is the PRL V2 that has more features, but not the one I really wanted (the ability to screw it down to the bench).

Could you modify the PRL V2 so that you can screw it down to the table? I don't see why not.

I, too, am turned off by the cheapening measures in these changes.

[Neal Clayton]

i don't suppose the inserts are that big of a deal, although i'm glad i got one when they were steel ;).

[dan sherman]

Could you modify the PRL V2 so that you can screw it down to the table? I don't see why not.

Potentially, but I would have to buy a new drill bit, as I don't think I have one ground to the proper profile.

While doing some more research, I noticed that the new Kreg lift (http://www.kregtool.com/products/prs/product.php?PRODUCT_ID=118) looks like a PRL V2 lift minus the leveling screws, but plus spots for hold down screws. Does anyone know if the router adapter plates (I have a PC 890), and screw in inserts are interchangeable?

[Glen Butler]

I have the bench dog with the plastic inserts. I don't really use them unless I am working with flexible material. I am a little upset that they got rid of the metal inserts, but it is still better than any other lift out there.

[Ken Shoemaker]

I got the older one (with the steel inserts) a few years ago. Incredible router lift. I am sorry that BenchDog chose to cheapen the finest (IMHO) router lift ever built.

I am saddened that BenchDog has chosen this route. I for one have not purchased one item with their name on it since this change. I vote, and so loyalty, with my dollars.

Good Luck on your deccision. Ken

[glenn bradley]

The PRL should drill easily with almost any drill bit. An inexpensive countersink would set your screw heads below the surface. Now that I've spoken before I've listened :rolleyes:. . . why do you want to screw the plate down?

Wait, I think i already answered my own question. Rockler screws the plate from underneath once it is leveled don't they? That is probably what you are speaking of. Sorry.

P.s. If this helps, my PRL v1 with a Milwaukee 5625 hanging in it has never budged and gravity and the spring-loaded side plungers are all that is holding it in.

[dan sherman]

why do you want to screw the plate down?


Peace of mind, I have watched my fathers quick lift move around when using large flush trim bits.

[glenn bradley]

Peace of mind, I have watched my fathers quick lift move around when using large flush trim bits.

Yikes, that would make me nervous too. For safety's sake, I would want to fix that before continuing to use the table ;).

[dan sherman]

After we noticed it last Christmas, we fixed it (drilled it for hold down screws). It was an ordeal though, the aluminum was really gummy.

[Paul Murphy]

I almost pulled a trigger tonight on ordering a bench dog lift, and then the word "plastic" caught my eye. after some quick digging on SMC I found these two threads.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=1244008
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=1081564

based on Rick's photos it looks like the new 40-150 model is now just face milled (cheaper), rather than ground like the older 40-016 model. the switch to plastic inserts also seems like a cheapening measure.

whats the consensus, is the new model still worth the price?

my fall back is the PRL V2 that has more features, but not the one I really wanted (the ability to screw it down to the bench).

Dan, I found a leftover 40-016, and think that is the one to have. I did examine the 40-150, and it is very nicely made, and except for the plastic insert, very sturdy. I did worry the plastic insert would flex with high downforce, as it is rather thin in spots. I cannot fathom why benchdog would degrade an otherwise outstanding product with such a marginal insert. There are some folks even bolting small feeders onto router tables, and I think the downforce would be a problem with the thin plastic.

I had also considered the Jessem Master Lift or Woodpecker PRL-V2, but am glad to have found the 40-016.

If benchdog wants to sell to the high-end market, I think they will have to beef-up that insert.

[Glen Butler]

Creekers should all send benchdog a nice letter or e-mail stating that we are dissappointed in them. Maybe they will change their ways.

[Leo Vogel]

The downgrade of the ProLift was done by Rockler when Bench Dog was acquired by them. The same Rockler Management team that would not answer my emails!

[dan sherman]

While doing more research last night a came across some discouraging information from woodpecker. their inserts are also now plastic.

http://www.woodpeck.com/twistlockringset.html


These new rings are molded from a polycarbonate reinforced ABS.

Anyone know where to buy and old Benchdog lift?

[joe milana]

How about a European made lift? Anyone know of one?

[glenn bradley]

While doing more research last night a came across some discouraging information from woodpecker. their inserts are also now plastic.

Well, they're cheaper than the phenolic ones they used to offer. I went with the aluminum and am surprised they do not at least off these for folks who want to go that way. Obviously if an incident were to occur, I would rather my cutters hit plastic phenolic or aluminum but, the Incra version of the PRL with the magnetically secured steel inserts is looking like a better bet now.

I would call them up and tell them you'll take a PRL as long as you can get the aluminum inserts just to see what they say. Sometimes you have to poke makers with a stick to see if they're awake. This is a bad step for Woodpecker. Of course, they stopped making the excellent phenolic ply drill press table that folks loved. I got one of those just before they disappeared. What are they thinking?

[Stephen Edwards]

Well, they're cheaper than the phenolic ones they used to offer. I went with the aluminum and am surprised they do not at least off these for folks who want to go that way. Obviously if an incident were to occur, I would rather my cutters hit plastic phenolic or aluminum but, the Incra version of the PRL with the magnetically secured steel inserts is looking like a better bet now. I would call them up and tell them you'll take a PRL as long as you can get the aluminum inserts just to see what they say.

A friend of mine made magnetic inserts using his plastic inserts. He installed small rare earth magnets in the table plate and cut/ground/filed the bottom of the machine screws that go through the inserts. Works like a charm.

[dan sherman]

I just placed my order for a Bench dog lift, since it will be easier for me to make inserts for it than PRL V2.

This switch to plastic inserts by both companies is very disappointing. :(

[Steven DeMars]

I do not yet have a router table, but it is in the plans for 2010 . .

I am a little confused . . .

If you have a BENCHDOG ProLift with a steel plate that actualy supports the lift and the router, why would it matter what the insert was made of?

Again, I do not have a router table so I may be missing something.

The reason I ask is I am a "nut" for the best / most durable of anything I buy . . .

Thanks in advance,
Steve

[Paul Murphy]

I do not yet have a router table, but it is in the plans for 2010 . .

I am a little confused . . .

If you have a BENCHDOG ProLift with a steel plate that actualy supports the lift and the router, why would it matter what the insert was made of?

Again, I do not have a router table so I may be missing something.

The reason I ask is I am a "nut" for the best / most durable of anything I buy . . .

Thanks in advance,
Steve

With the benchdog insert you have about a 4" disk of plastic that in places is less than 1/8" thick. Eventually you will have a less than perfectly flat workpiece, and in applying sufficient downforce to flatten the workpiece you will displace the plastic insert. Your cope and stick, or door panel, or drawer bottom then has an irregular profile, and may not fit properly or look well made. The fact that the insert is plastic doesn't bother me so much, but that it is very thin and flexible does. It's a shame, because the rest of the lift is outstanding, and the earlier model was about the best I've seen.

I own a shaper, so I don't intend to use a power feeder on the router table, but other woodworkers do use powerfeeders on large router tables. Significant downforce can be generated by a power feeder, and so wandering cut profiles are likely.

[Leo Vogel]

Dan - what router are going to use?

[dan sherman]

Dan - what router are going to use?

A Porter Cable 890.

[Paul Murphy]

Dan, you mentioned making your own inserts. I was thinking of doing that also. I believe Pat Warner routs aluminum, although I was thinking of using phenolic if I had to. Perhaps a one-time effort (or expense) of fabricating an outside adapter to use pre-made smaller inserts from Woodpecker or someone else you like.

Are you dedicating the 890 to the table? If you had not planed to, I believe the benchdog adapter requires removing the linear "rack" from the 890. After I learned about that, I went ahead and bought a 7518 motor.

[dan sherman]

Are you dedicating the 890 to the table? If you had not planed to, I believe the benchdog adapter requires removing the linear "rack" from the 890. After I learned about that, I went ahead and bought a 7518 motor.


For now the 890 is my only router, and it will be dedicated to the table. Almost all of my routing projects can easily be done on a table, so it's not a big deal.

[Stephen Edwards]

Fellow Creeker Jeff Bratt, a hobbyist woodworker, makes his own inserts. When I need some more inserts, I'm going to try his method:

http://home.roadrunner.com/~jeffnann/WoodWorking/Shop/Shop.html#Router_Table_

You can see close ups of the inserts here:

http://home.roadrunner.com/~jeffnann/WoodWorking/Shop/RouterTable/RouterPlateInserts.JPG