Garnet shellac question

[Jacob Mac]

I am getting ready to start finishing a nightstand I made out of cherry for my wife. I intended on using BLO, followed by garnet shellac, and then follow it up with some armor seal. Unfortunately, I ordered the shellac from Woodcraft, and after waiting a month for them to ship it, they told me that they would not be shipping it because they lost their supplier.

Can anyone point me to an alternate source for the garnet shellac? I was thinking of using Jeff Jewitt, but I want to make sure I am not missing something. Plus, Jeff is closed for the next week, and I would really like to get this thing done. Woodcraft really did me no favors by not shipping me my shellac for a month and then telling me after waiting for so long that they would not be shipping it. Not the end of the world, but this was supposed to be a Christmas present.

[Neal Clayton]

shellac.net
shellacshack.com

i order from whichever is cheaper, never had a problem with either.

[Howard Acheson]

Zinsser makes a pre-mixed garnet shellac.

Also, unless you use a dewaxed shellac, you will not be able to use Arm R Seal. Arm R Seal is a poly varnish and polyurethane varnishes will not adhere well to shellac that contains its natural wax.

[Prashun Patel]

I ordered from Shellac Shack. Fine product.

[Jacob Mac]

Thanks fellas.

[Anthony Diodati]

I ordered from Shellac Shack. Fine product.

Says on there site,

"Shellac Shack carries 6 grades of shellac flakes. Five of these are dewaxed varieties: preferred by woodworkers because of the clarity of the finish and their durability and hardness over the waxy varieties."

I did not know this, is it really much more durable?
Thanks Tony

[Scott Holmes]

Yes, it's harder and a better sealer against water and water vapor.

They really aren't waxy varieties...
Shellac has wax naturally ; most shellac flakes are DE-WAXED shellac.

[Neal Clayton]

yeah it's not like leaded versus unleaded gasonline, where they just didn't put the lead in and charged us more for using less ;). the wax has to be removed.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Can anyone point me to an alternate source for the garnet shellac? I was thinking of using Jeff Jewitt, but I want to make sure I am not missing something.

I buy from Jeff. Period. I had an identical problem - needed garnet flakes, didn't plan ahead, drove to a nearby woodworking store that everyone here would recognize as a top-notch place. They were out - also a supplier problem. They know me there, because I'm in there a lot. Says me: "Well, I tried to do business with you, but now I'm gonna go back to my usual supplier - Homestead." Them - "Smart move. Their shellac is better than ours. Their shellac is the best you can get."

I don't have any experience with other sources, and after that I never will, but just saying..........

[Jacob Mac]

I buy from Jeff. Period. I had an identical problem - needed garnet flakes, didn't plan ahead, drove to a nearby woodworking store that everyone here would recognize as a top-notch place. They were out - also a supplier problem. They know me there, because I'm in there a lot. Says me: "Well, I tried to do business with you, but now I'm gonna go back to my usual supplier - Homestead." Them - "Smart move. Their shellac is better than ours. Their shellac is the best you can get."

I don't have any experience with other sources, and after that I never will, but just saying..........


Thanks, Kent. In the future, I think I will always use Jeff as my go to source. I was really put off by ordering something from WC, and then told, four weeks later that it would not ship.

This time around, however, I went with shellac shack because Jeff was closed for the week. Oh well, I have 40-50 years of projects in front of me, hopefully.

[Neal Clayton]

well in fairness...all shellac comes from the same places. it's an indian import. there's not likely to be much difference between raw flakes from anywhere you may get them. premixed is another story since premixed has a shelf life.

[Kent A Bathurst]

well in fairness...all shellac comes from the same places. it's an indian import. there's not likely to be much difference between raw flakes from anywhere you may get them. premixed is another story since premixed has a shelf life.

Ahhhhhhhh, I don't know if I'll automatically buy that, Neal. I'd guess the critters on the trees are fairly homogenous, whether in India or Thailand, but the trees grow in different microclimates, the harvestors are different, there are multiple processors, and multiple processes, both in the South Asia region, and in Germany - where there is a big industry shellac processing, especially in dewaxed shellac. Not possible to have identical refined end products with all the variables involved, probably more so in the more refined bleached dewaxed products. If you were talking just about unrefined sticklac right off the tree, I'd be more amenableto your point.

There are a lot of Speyside single malt whiskys, and - trust me on this -they are not all the same, even though they all come from near the same place, with basically the same water, grain, peat, and oak casks.

Off to get a glass of Glenlivet.

Cheers.

[Larry Fox]

Jeff Jewitt for shellac here - period. I don't know what the difference in shellac is either but I can tell you that I can dissolve a full pound of it in 1/2 gallon of shellac overnight where it takes me a few days with other "brands". It also seems to have less "extra stuff' in it.

[Scott Holmes]

I usually buy mine form the Shellac Shack... Last order was 24 pounds of de-waxed garnet for a large job... Top shelf German processsed shellac from them too.

[Neal Clayton]

Ahhhhhhhh, I don't know if I'll automatically buy that, Neal. I'd guess the critters on the trees are fairly homogenous, whether in India or Thailand, but the trees grow in different microclimates, the harvestors are different, there are multiple processors, and multiple processes, both in the South Asia region, and in Germany - where there is a big industry shellac processing, especially in dewaxed shellac. Not possible to have identical refined end products with all the variables involved, probably more so in the more refined bleached dewaxed products. If you were talking just about unrefined sticklac right off the tree, I'd be more amenableto your point.

There are a lot of Speyside single malt whiskys, and - trust me on this -they are not all the same, even though they all come from near the same place, with basically the same water, grain, peat, and oak casks.

Off to get a glass of Glenlivet.

Cheers.

true, but...

we can't know where they all get them from. i think we can assume, though, that dealers aiming at higher end small shop type finishing customers will have comparable quality.

i've gone through about 40 pounds in the past year, half from shellac.net, half from shellac shack, can't tell any difference (except shellac.net separates them out into one pound ziplocks, which is a nice convenience).

[Prashun Patel]

Um, not to be a fly in the shellac here, but...

IT'S SHELLAC! The only 'bad' shellac I've ever used is the stuff I've kept on my shelf for a year and then attempted to use. Come on, I think we're overanalyzing this.

[Jacob Mac]

Another question, how vigorously do you sand inbetween coats of shellac?

Also, do you sand a piece after applying BLO? If so, how vigorously?

Thanks

[Prashun Patel]

If you're filling grain, sand vigorously - back to the grain. If the shellac's a barrier coat, then just sand lightly - just enough to reduce the nubs and chop off any dust or raised grain. If it feels smooth to your fingers, it's ready for the next coat. My sanding is almost more of a 'wipe with 400' than a sanding.

I don't sand the BLO. It doesn't raise the grain or trap any dust for me.

[Kent A Bathurst]

[QUOTE=Shawn Patel;129649....Come on, I think we're overanalyzing this.......[/QUOTE]

Perhaps we are Shawn, perhaps we are. I can tell you, from personal experience, that there are differences in the quality of shellac flakes, from different reputable suppliers. That is not saying some are good and some are bad, just that the quality varies, and the differences in prices are very small from the "best" to the "Less than best" (my evaluation).

There is shellac that dissolves almost completely in an hour or so, and some that dosen't dissolve overnite (as noted by another responder). There is "dewaxed" shellac that is perfectly clear when mixed, and there is "dewaxed" shellac - from a very reputable supplier - that can have cloudy wax in the bottom 15% - 25% of the mixture. Sure - decant it - but what was I paying for?

Budweiser is certainly beer. I'm sticking to my Bass Ale and Samuel Smith.

[Jacob Mac]

If you're filling grain, sand vigorously - back to the grain. If the shellac's a barrier coat, then just sand lightly - just enough to reduce the nubs and chop off any dust or raised grain. If it feels smooth to your fingers, it's ready for the next coat. My sanding is almost more of a 'wipe with 400' than a sanding.

I don't sand the BLO. It doesn't raise the grain or trap any dust for me.


Thanks Shawn, that really helps. This is an all new finish schedule for me, and I really appreciate the info. In fact, I am trying 7 or 8 new techniques on this project, so it has been harrowing to say the least. The last thing I want to do is screw it up at this point.

[Neal Clayton]

There is shellac that dissolves almost completely in an hour or so, and some that dosen't dissolve overnite (as noted by another responder). There is "dewaxed" shellac that is perfectly clear when mixed, and there is "dewaxed" shellac - from a very reputable supplier - that can have cloudy wax in the bottom 15% - 25% of the mixture. Sure - decant it - but what was I paying for?

Budweiser is certainly beer. I'm sticking to my Bass Ale and Samuel Smith.

the amount of time it takes to dissolve is directly related to the size of the flakes. if you don't grind them up finer, they take longer.

a pack of BC dissolves faster than an alka seltzer tablet.

doesn't have anything to do with the quality of the finished product.


Thanks Shawn, that really helps. This is an all new finish schedule for me, and I really appreciate the info. In fact, I am trying 7 or 8 new techniques on this project, so it has been harrowing to say the least. The last thing I want to do is screw it up at this point.

it's different but once you get the hang of it, really hard to screw up.

the main thing is knowing how much to thin it for various things, imo. for a sealer, 1 or 1.5 pounds at most. for a brushing finish, i use 2 pounds, if i'm planning to wipe it, maybe 2.5 to 3 pounds.