Workshop heat

[Ken Leshner]

I need some advice on how to heat my garage workshop. It's an attached 2 car garage - approximately 500 sq. ft. Do I go electric or vent-free propane? What size, etc.?

Thanks in advance.

[Don Abele]

Ken, I went through this last year. Here are the links to my two posts concerning it:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=5202

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=6049

If you do a search on it, I'm sure you'll find many more.

Be well,

Doc

[Frank Pellow]

For my 482 sq ft workshop, I am using the Empire Direct Vent propane space heater, model DV-35-SG. The BTU input is 35,000. A description of this and other Empire space heaters can be found at: http://www.empirecomfort.com/

[Michael Ballent]

Just move to Phoenix and you will not have to worry about shop heat ;). But seriously I think that there are a lot of people that rave about the Hot Dawg heater... obviously I really do not need one, but hope that helps :)

Good luck.

[John Gregory]

Check out the Hot Dawg by Modine. I have had one for two Utah winters and love it. Price can vary, do a internet search for the best price. I go the propane and have tanks I refill. I did not want to run gas to the shop. Warms up fast and is pretty economical. I did a vent out the side of my shop, it has a power assist exhaust.

John

[Dan Mages]

Beans.... chili.... spicy mexican food... good curry... That will create all the warmth I will will need. It will also help fumigate the workshop. :D

Dan

[Jamie Buxton]

I need some advice on how to heat my garage workshop. It's an attached 2 car garage - approximately 500 sq. ft. Do I go electric or vent-free propane? What size, etc.?

Thanks in advance.

Unless your shop is very drafty, I'd avoid vent-free propane. If everything works right, it is still consuming oxygen which you might want to breathe, and it is producing water vapor. It isn't nice to subject lumber to a warm wet atmosphere while you're working, and cold dry environment while you're not. And, of course, if the heater doesn't work right, maybe you get carbon monoxide.

[Ken Leshner]

Thanks all for your advise. I reviewed the posts Don suggested, and some others I found. It looks like a lot of folks are down on the propane heaters for safety and moisture reasons.

I'll probably get a Fahrenheat 5000 BTU electric heater from Northern Tool. But, with the electric rates here in NY I might have to sell most of my woodworking equipment just to keep it running.

[Dan Mages]

Seriously tho... a wood burning cast iron stove throws out a huge amount of heat and does not cost all that much.

Dan

[Ed Breen]

I had a resnor in my old 24x24 shop. Used propane and a 100 gallon ball. Kept the thermostat on its lowest setting until I went into the shop. Recovery time was very quick. Whenn I installed it I vented it to the outside with no trouble. It appears to be close to the Hot Dawg. Simple to install, easy to use, no CO in the air.
Oklahoma can get to single digit in the winter.
Good luck
Ed :D

[Don Abele]

Ken, the Farenheat unit is 5000 watts - that's 17,000 btu.

Here's what it cost me: I ran mine at 50 degrees last winter and would crank it up to about 65 when I was working in there. I ran it from January (when I installed it) up until sometime in April (about) and looking back at my electric bills (and comparing them to the same time from the year before), it looks like it cost me about $150 extra in electric over that 4 month period. So roughly $38 a month extra in electricity.

Of course, I live in Virginia and you in New York, so I'm sure yours may need to run a little more often.

One thing you can do to cut operating costs is to make sure your shop is well insulated. Mine is not...I have a 2 car garage, one bay with an 8 foot ceiling, the other is 10-12 feet high. One exterior wall is uninsulated and the wall with both garage doors (uninsulated metal) on it is also uninsulated. Oh, and the ceilings are also both uninsulated. I'm sure if it were insulated it make a huge difference.

Be well,

Doc

[Gary Max]

Propane has already went up over 30% here. Of course it is our main sourse of heat so I am so happy I could just ----

[John Miliunas]

Another vote for the Hot Dawg. An external, setback thermostat and it's nice and comfy by the time you come home from work, cool when you're not in there! :cool:

[Jim Barrett]

I installed a Dayton 17,100 BTU electric heater in my 500sq' Shop/garage. It works great, I will turn it on and bring the temp up to 65 or 70 in the winter. My garage is well insulated, 2x6 walls, insulated garage door, etc.

JimB

[John Payton]

Guess its that time of year, but I have been doing a little research and a lot of wondering on what to do once it starts to really get cold here in SE Virginia. I have been looking kinda seriously at the pellet stove/shop heater that Harbor Freight has on sale.

Anyone familiar with pellet heaters..good things bad things..?

Thanks,
JohnPayton

[Lloyd Brown]

It is a 17,000 btu 240v heater. E=mail me for more details. Itis in the Grainger cataloge I can find the number at work today.

[Carole Valentine]

My brother (who runs the family farm and grows corn) just bought a corn stove. I am anxious to see how that works. I am told they emit a mild pop-corn smell. I think it will also burn pellets.

[Don Abele]

Jim, that's the same heater I have, only it's labeled by a different company (Farenheat). Identical unit though. Works great.

John, I'm in Chesapeake too and can tell you that come December through about March/April it'll be too cold to work out there at night. My biggest concern was freezing temps ruining my stains/poly/glue/etc. and I didn't want to bring them into the house. I typically work until after 6pm so most of my shop time during the week is at night when the temp has dropped.

Pellet stoves, like any other combustible stove needs to be used wisely in a shop environment. There is an open flame and depending on the model, you'll need to take that into consideration when working with any flammables (especially if you spray). Additionally, the consumption of oxygen must be taken into consideration. Though I would think that's less of an issue as most shops/garages are fairly drafty anyway. You also need to maintain a larger clear area around them. In my "small" 2-car garage I don't have that space readily available. I also don't have to worry about ensuring there's a supply of fuel available. And instalation didn't require any cuts through the walls or piping. Just some basic wiring. With all that said though, there are many people here that have stoves in their shops and love them. As with tool purchases, it all depends on your preferences.

Be well,

Doc

[Tom Seaman]

I installed Ceramic Electric Radiant heaters prior to last winter and have been very pleased. Like you, I am using a 500+ sq ft attached garage as my workshop, and have 4500 watts of heaters spread out among 4 heaters (there are different sizes/styles available to help optimize to your specific conditions).


I used heaters from Radiant Electric Heat, Inc. (electricheat.com). They were very helpful in determining what I would need and what would be the best configuration and placement. A thermostat keeps the workshop at a preset temp to keep condensation off the tools, then I turn it up (if necessary) when I'm in there. The heaters are very unobtrusive, and I hardly even notice they are there anymore.
Tom

[Don Abele]

Tom, in my quest for a suitable heater last year I also tried ceramic and other types of radiant heaters (including the quartz tubes). Radiant heat is a much better way to heat a shop, rather than convection (what my current heater does). Radiant warms the objects up, which in turn give their heat up to you. Convection heats the air, which is a poor conductor of heat. My problem is that my floor is a poured concrete slab - it takes a lot to heat it up and, here's the real catch, it is a solid piece all the way through the driveway. Which means my driveway is a giant heat sink, so that slab NEVER warms up :mad: . This is why (in additional to preventing cracking) there is usually an expansion joint at the door (usually with some insulating material in it).

Be well,

Doc

[Paul Downes]

Ken, I assume you live in a town or residential area, so it might be hard to install a wood fired boiler or furnace like I'm doing right now. (Stealth gloat) :D One thing I would seriously consider is lots of insulation in the walls and the garage doors. You will save yourself lots of money in the long run by spending insulation dollars now. Another option you might think about is the possibility of tapping into your homes heating system. You might also want to consider carefully the insurance implications of the different heat sources. Some people have used a hot water heater and a radiator/radiant floor. In addition to lots of insulation I would also work to eliminate draft/cold air infiltration. Did I mention lots of insulation?

[Roger Fitzsimonds]

My brother had a pellet stove in Nevada and heated his whole house with it. he bought pellets by the pallet. When we put a wood stove in our house here in North Georgia, my wife wanted a pellet stove. I said as much wood as i can have here for free why pay for pellets that have to be shipped from Oregon or Washington. They work automatically and work well. but the pellets add up and they have to be vented and chimneyed just like a wood stove. Just my dos centavos on pellet stoves.

Roger

[Chris Padilla]

For me, I just recently added a whole new HVAC system to my house--don't snicker, it gets chilly cold here in Cali, too: cool, wet (chilly) winters and warm, dry (hot!) summers. I had the guys put a vent into the garage so I could pump nice warm air or nice cold air into the shop! I will also insulate the garage very well.

[John Shuk]

Ken,
I have a infrared propane heater that heats really well. The drawback is that it introduces alot of moisture into the garage. ALOT of moisture. Electric might not be a bad option for that reason. By the way I'm pretty close by over here in Cold Spring. I work in Pomona occasionally.

[Frank Pellow]

Ken, why have you eliminated propane with a vent? The unit that I referenced in post #3 in this thread is very easy to vent.

[Ed Breen]

Ken,

I agree with Frank! Propane cost is middling compared to natural or electric. Coal, pelletrs etc all produce ash, clinkers etc to be disposed of.
In my present shop 30x50 I use overhead radiant propane heating (but I have 10 foot ceilings) In SWMBO's shop (also 30x50 I am dividing with awall and putting in a hot water heater and hose in the wall for radiant plus I will probably have several 5o foot holes drilled for cooling in the summer.
Best luck in your choice
Ed :D

[Ken Leshner]

Frank, those Empire units are expensive. I really don't want to spend more than $300 for a heater. And, if I drilled a hole for a vent in the side of my house,
SWMBO would tar and feather me!

BTW, I was just reading a FAQ at the Mr. Heater website. It said that NFPA (National Fire Protection Association) regulations make it unlawful to take any propane tank larger than 1 pound inside a residence. Is this true? If I got a propane heater I was expecting to run it off a 20 pound tank placed near it in the garage.

[Don Abele]

Ken, as I understood it when I did my research, the 1 pound requirement does not apply to residential spaces as you read. These are those little canisters used with the mini coleman heaters (which can also be used inside a tent). By what I was told, a garage/shop/or industrial setting does not apply to this rule as they are not of primary residence. This is why you'll see those propane infrared heaters for garages using 20 pound bottles.

As I did in my previous post, when I was researching my heater, let me point out a major disadvantage of propane heaters: if unvented, which is permissble, the combustion of propane creates CO2 and water vapor as a by-product. While CO2 at high levels can be dangerous, it's highly unlikely you could ever get the levels that high in the average shop/garage. The real problem, and a significant one, is that water vapor. This can create condensation on metal surfaces, leading to rust. The vented units do not have this problem as they vent the CO2 and water vapor outside. Of course, you need a vent for that.

The other thing with propane...I'm taking a guess here as it as I don't have my notes readily available, but I figured a 20 pound tank would only last me 1-2 weeks depending on the temperature and how much I worked in the shop (because I turn ip the heat). Here in Chesapeake, that's $20 a tank, plus a 20 minute round trip to get it filled. Buying/renting a larger tank was out of the question as it's not allowed within city limits without VERY specific requirements/guidelines being followed. Oddly enough, trailer parks just 10 minutes away do not have to comply with these requirements.

Anyway...like most other woodworking purchases, there are many choices and options. The problem is finding what is the best situation for you. Hoperfully this information helps you in making that decision.

Be well,

Doc

[Frank Pellow]

Frank, those Empire units are expensive. I really don't want to spend more than $300 for a heater. And, if I drilled a hole for a vent in the side of my house,
SWMBO would tar and feather me!

BTW, I was just reading a FAQ at the Mr. Heater website. It said that NFPA (National Fire Protection Association) regulations make it unlawful to take any propane tank larger than 1 pound inside a residence. Is this true? If I got a propane heater I was expecting to run it off a 20 pound tank placed near it in the garage.

I don't know what the regulations are, but I do know that I would never operate a propane tank inside. I have been using propane for many different things (cooking, heating, refrigeration, lighting, burning weeds, etc,) all my life (we did not have electricity at home until I was about 10) and never were the tanks for those item inside.

[Carole Valentine]

As odd as it may sound, I put all my finishes and glues in a big cooler in the winter. I have never had anything freeze yet.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Ken....I did a little research before I decided on the kind of heat to put into my new shop. I have a friend who is a pro mechanic. He heats his insulated shop with a gas heat. IIRC this is NG overhead radiant heat. The type of heater he used did not require venting. He found after just a couple of days, he had tremendous humidity problems. He called the heating company back, and they installed vents on both of his heaters. He works on cars and he had a humidity problem. You can imagine what this kind of moisture would do to the moisture content of wood in a ww shop. I just signed a contract last week with a heating company. The heater I bought, a NG overhead forced air, is vented through the roof for fresh air intake and exhaust. Choosing the correct heating for a given useage area and staying within a budget and meeting local building codes can be a real headache! If I'd had my way, I'd be using in-the -floor radiant heat but.....the city building code, my pocket book, and the timeline I have to get my new shop finished couldn't come to an agreement......Good Luck with your decision!