Got the Table Saw Now a Band Saw Dilemma

[Greg Wittler]

First of all I would like to thank everyone whose posts have helped me in my long journey back into woodworking. with that said, I was waiting to see if bonuses came through this year to help cover some of the cost of a new Table Saw and to my suprise it was 5K (well about 3K for me and 2K for our Uncle) So I just ordered a G0691 Table Saw from Grizzly and I was about to order the G0636X but I am not sure if I should hold out for a MM AG... or Laguna. Laguna is sending me some Literature & a DVD but it will not arrive until after the First of the Year, so if I wait I will lose the slight discount on the Grizz. I have my doubts that Made in Italy or Bulgaria is going to be any better than an ISO 9001 factory in Taiwan and I am not worried about resale but to date this is my largest tool purchase and besides my vehicle purchases, this will probably the largest sinle purchase I have ever made (at least until I replace my lathe). So I guess I am just looking for some re-assurance from all y'all incredably knowlegable folks. Two months ago I was looking at the Rikon 14" with 13" Re-saw capacity, stop me before I end up with a saw that won't fit in my garage.

Thanks Again,

GDub

[Scott Wigginton]

You're clearly in the wrong place if you're looking for folks to stop you, now if you want us to egg you on then thats another story :D

As for the G0636X, I've already started drooling over it (need a drill press first tho, can't wait to see this new one Shiraz has been dropping hints about next year). I'm in the same boat as you, was drooling over a G0513X2 last winter with the Bing CB but life got in the way, but now I can't get the G0636X outta my mind!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Greg,

First I will tell you I own a MM-16. I bought it several years ago. I wanted something that was a proven product and my two adults sons would argue over after my demise.

That being said....

Grizzley has come a long ways in their quality over the years. There are a lot of happy owners here of a lot of their bandsaws. In some of the recent product tests by the magazines, Grizzley bandsaws held their own.

It really becomes a matter of is there a significant difference in quality to warrant the difference in price? That is a decision that you will have to decide. Keep one thing in mind, if you buy the Grizzley, better bearings, blade guides etc, are available locally through bearing shops and from after market manufaturers. At the same time, one can find arguments that the Mini-Maxes, the Lagunas, the Agazanni's have problems too.

IMHO....the differences today....when you compare apples to apples.....aren't as great as they were in the past.

Then again....I bought an MM-16 for a rather off the cuff...outside the box reason.

Good luck with your decision.

[guy knight]

the grizz gets good user ratings but keep in mind most of the people that own them have never used or looked at the higher end bandsaws i started out with a 18" rikon after using a friends 18 jet and not liking it much then i upgraded to a mm20 after looking at all of the other saws besides aganzi imo the china saws hold nothing over the upper end euro saws from the design to the thickness of the metal even on the doors to the weight of the wheels to the quality of the components the make and size of the motors the resaw capacity the design of the guide post but with that being said for a hobbyist all of the china saws will serve you well but the italian saws will do it so much nicer and smoother
another example i wanted a 14" for curve cutting i checked out all of the brands pm grizz jet sf sc i ended up with the laguna 14 3000 suv and i can say no other 14 even comes close to its quality and capacity

[Mike Heidrick]

Good posts here

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=69987

[Greg Wittler]

Good posts here

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=69987

Oh yeah forgot about that thread, been looking at so many. The part that got me thinking back towards the Grizz was the added weight. Seems like the added weight will help when re-sawing large lumber. Just as I am typing this the Laguna Info I requested came in the mail. Now I can scour this information and make the right choice. Thanks to all and Happy Holidays.

[Gary Herrmann]

Just another MM16 owner here to muddy the waters...

[james bell]

when i was looking 18 months ago, it was between the laguna and mm (16"). read all of the blogs i could find and went with the mm with no regrets.

the only problem i have with the mm (and would with the laguna) is that you can't use small blades. i had gotten rid of my old sears 12" but managed to retrieve it - just a hint in case you have a small band saw: KEEP IT.

On the grizzly, the quality seems to have gotten much better, in fact, I recently purchased the grizzly 12" jointer and love it. if your heart says the grizzly is the solution - go for it, since the saved money can purchase more wood or another tool.

[Rye Crane]

Greg,

There is a whale of a end of year sale going on at Mini Max. Go to their
website minimax-usa.com and check it out. I believe you want to read the notes about ordering, etc. before the end of the year. Make sure if you are interested you don't miss some small print.

Good Luck and let us know what you decide on, all great saws that have been mentioned.

Rye Crane
Pittsburg, Ca.

owner of a MM24 bandsaw

[Ben West]

I've played with the 636 a little, and it is a first class machine. I'd guess that you'd never want for more.

Some will claim that Asian machines just can't measure up with European or American-made machines in terms of quality. That was true once, but no longer. The SawStop and PM2000, for example, are lauded for their quality and are made in Taiwan.

If it was me, I'd get the Grizzly and use the difference for something else.

[Ed Griner]

After reading Glen Huey's piece about the 636 in the 6/09 PW,I E-Mailed Glen and he was kind enough to answer my questions each time.The PW group really fell in love with the 636 as an all time favorite.I also investigated MM,Agazanni,Felder,etc.. I decided to go with 636,but before purchasing I wanted to speak with Grizzly customer service.After two phone calls to CS, the service people convinced me not to buy one by shear rudness,disinterest,overall didn't care if I bought the 636 or not.This came as a real shock,after hearing other creekers speak so highly of Grizzly CS.I recently called CS about the jointer/planer combo and this was the shortest call yet. I posted here about CS fatigue and got some names from other creekers,I'll try them if I call in the future.From everything I've learned about the 636,its a great machine. In the meantime I bought a used Bridgewood PBS540.

Ed

[michael case]

Wow Ed, I have never had anything but good treatment from Grizzly customer service. Even once when the shipper damaged a delivery and I was on the onery side. Once I could see, but twice. When it rains it pours. I got the feeling if you went over their heads and lodged a reasoned and convincing complaint you would get a positive response, but whose got time for that. Speaking of customer service, has any one read the numerous complaints about Laguna customer service? The gist of the complaints I read is that your on own if your machine has a problem. Problems may be rare with their machines, but it seems there are lot of people they left hanging. FYI Laguna has a D rating from the BBB.

[Jacob Mac]

After reading Glen Huey's piece about the 636 in the 6/09 PW,I E-Mailed Glen and he was kind enough to answer my questions each time.The PW group really fell in love with the 636 as an all time favorite.I also investigated MM,Agazanni,Felder,etc.. I decided to go with 636,but before purchasing I wanted to speak with Grizzly customer service.After two phone calls to CS, the service people convinced me not to buy one by shear rudness,disinterest,overall didn't care if I bought the 636 or not.This came as a real shock,after hearing other creekers speak so highly of Grizzly CS.I recently called CS about the jointer/planer combo and this was the shortest call yet. I posted here about CS fatigue and got some names from other creekers,I'll try them if I call in the future.From everything I've learned about the 636,its a great machine. In the meantime I bought a used Bridgewood PBS540.

Ed


Go up the food chain a little. I was having some similar CS problems,and I complained about it on this site. A couple of weeks later, I got an unsolicited email from someone from Grizzly apologizing and offering to help. The issue is still unresolved, but I am confident they are going to make it right.

From my experience, rudeness and disinterest is outside of the Grizzly ethos. Moving a little higher up the food chain will convince you of that.

[Greg Wittler]

Greg,

There is a whale of a end of year sale going on at Mini Max. Go to their
website minimax-usa.com and check it out. I believe you want to read the notes about ordering, etc. before the end of the year. Make sure if you are interested you don't miss some small print.

Good Luck and let us know what you decide on, all great saws that have been mentioned.

Rye Crane
Pittsburg, Ca.

owner of a MM24 bandsaw

At just under $2600 w/mobility it is very tempting, also watched a dvd from Laguna and that 16HD is also a sweet machine. It's going to be a harder decision than I thought, so much for a good nights sleep. If I was ready for a new lathe it would be easy, I would have ordered the big mustard monster when PM had their after thanksgiving sale. Thanks to you all for your input!

[Ed Griner]

I'm not trying to steal this thread with complaints,but to point out that developing good products(636 bandsaw) at a great expense to grizzly,me researching it,made up my mind to buy it($2200 is a lot of money to me),had a couple more questions and then speaking to impatient CS staff,with minimal PR skills kind of makes you wonder.I'm in business and each job is a chance to get more work in the future,based on how well this job goes.(allows me to eat on a regular basis)The CS staff are the ones you have the most contact with after the sale,courteous,professional personel.I purchased a BS blade from Laguna($75.00) talked to "Tim" great experience,they have a platinum 12"J/P combo on sale,seems like a good deal,but do to CS problems mentioned here and on other threads about their poor CS record,I uncertain about dealing with them.I'll just keep the money,when they start acting like they really want my business,maybe I will reconsider.Its a shame because the grizzly 636 is a great bandsaw.
Ed

[John Stan]

I have the 636 bandsaw. I selected it over the MM16 mainly because I felt it was a better saw. It is much heavier and has heavier wheels. The quality, fit and finish on this tool is better than anything I have ever seen. The Griz, MM, Laguna, and Agazzani are all good tools. However, based on my analysis I felt the Griz was for me a slightly better tool (weight was my main data point).

I have sliced paper thin veneer with it and cut very large slabs. It does both with ease.

-John

[Jeff Willard]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=115939

I had heard about some issues with the Rikon, specifically the 14". Can't say anything about the Grizzly models, good or bad, except that people seem to luv 'em. My experience with Laguna though, has so far been very positive.

[ken gibbs]

If you are looking for a quality 14" bandsaw, consider the Griz 1 1/2 hp heavy duty 14" bandsaw. I bought one this summer and love it. It will set you back with the shop fox mobile base but it is sweet. It ran true right out of the box. No problems for about $750.00 total delivered.

[Scot Ferraro]

A lot of the saws out there are all going to be very good machines. For my money I would buy another Laguna in a heartbeat as I have been very pleased with it. If you read my recent post on customer service, they fixed a part that broke on my saw for free, 9 years after my purchase. Some of the things to consider is the motor, resaw height and throat depth and the type of guides it uses. The Laguna saws all come with a Baldor motor for the HD line and I believe that they are supplying them with Leeson motors on their other lines -- both are top quality, high performance motors that should run trouble-free for a very long time. I think that most of the current saws all offer similar resaw capacities amongst them and for me, I find 12 inches to be very adequate. If you turn or make lumber from small logs then more resaw height is something to consider. Others will differ on this...but if you do not have a jointer and planer wide enough to handle the extra capacity in resaw height, then you have to find a way to surface the boards your resaw.

The other thing to consider is the type of guides -- whether ceramic or bearing-style. I think that most of the guide systems, when adjusted properly, will give you good results. I used the Euro-style of guides for years with success and just recently upgraded to the Laguna Guides and they are awesome. To me they are the easiest guides I have had to adjust since it does not matter if they "touch" the blade...the new sets come with little thumb scews so they are much easier to adjust than the ones with the allen screw heads. Of course these guides are available as a retrofit to just about every machine made so if you do decide to go with another manufacturers model, you can always switch to this style of guide in the future.

Someone made a comment that the Italian style machine cannot use small blades -- I have an LT18 and you can use 1/16 up to 1 1/4 inch blades on it with no problem. To use anything smaller than 1/4 inch blade they recommend using cool-blocks -- these are available to fit both the Euro-style guides or Laguna makes a set to fit the Ceramic Guides too.

I think that as with Jointers, bigger is better with a bandsaw. if you have the room for a larger machine, then I would go for it -- they all take a similar size footprint and you gain more mass to power through thick cuts easily as well as a larger throat depth. If I had it to do over again I would opt for a 20 or 24 inch machine to gain more throat capacity.

Good luck with your shopping.

Scot

[Greg Wittler]

Scott, thanks for the info, I did read your post regarding the parts Laguna replaced on your nine year saw. Thats great, customer service at its finest.

Greg

[Callan Campbell]

Greg, I own the 14" Rikon and have no complaints. With 1 1/2 HP it's fine for its class. I guess it depends on how big of a Bandsaw you want to end up with. I WOULD have bought an 18" unit but my basement shop ceiling height is a bit too low for one. I know where you're at in your search, my biggest complaint when I was making mine a few years ago is that few stores had anything but a small unit set-up in the store. All the larger units were catalog only at that point with regards to a hands on inspection. DVD's help, but not quite the same.

[kenneth kayser]

I have a Grizzly belt sander. I once needed a part. Grizzly sent the wrong part, then charged me shipping both ways and a re-stocking charge. They said the proper part was not available. I'll pay a little more for better service.

[Guy Belleman]

As time passes and old tools leave, I find myself replacing them with more and more Grizzly tools. Seldom had to contact customer service, but always a quick response when I did. No problems getting parts, and I like having the operator manuals and parts manuals on their website. If a person gets the wrong part from Grizzly, it is because they didn't take the couple of minutes to look it up.

I have the 17" G0513X and am very happy with it. And the G0490X jointer, G0690 tablesaw, G1035 shaper, and G0505 planer. And previously the G1023SLW tablesaw, but regretted selling it due to moving. All with no problems.

For the amount of money you are talking about, I would probably not consider the 17" Ultimate, but would go for the 21" G0531B, currently for a little less money, with free shipping, still has the 5HP motor, and all of the other features the 0636 does. Height is the same for both at 78" and the weights are almost the same too.

good luck on your decision.

[Rick Fisher]

I agree with Guy.. The bigger the wheel size, the better..

I wonder if you ever considered getting an older factory saw and restoring it?

Some folks have done it, including me, and are pleased with the results..

I got a 20 year old SCM-600 at an auction and spent 5 months ( 20 minutes at a time) restoring it.. It could have been done much faster but it was during the building boom and I was busy..

This is the saw..

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/SCM%20Bandsaw/P1010472.jpg

Its got 24" wheels, but only has about 13" of resaw height.. Its very solid and heavy.. I put a 5hp Baldor on it, but admit that a 3hp would have been sufficient.. The 5hp has never seemed to break a sweat..

You can often find these under the Centauro name, the 600 is the mm of the wheels.. They come 500, 600, 700, 800 and 900..

So this one is a baby.. :)

The newer saws are nicer.. no question.. This is basically an old MM-24, except an MM-24 has about 20" of resaw height and is just fancier, nicer and I am sure just plain better.. :) I would love to have an MM-24..

The problem is that an MM-24 is also $6000.00 ..

The resaw height has never been a problem, but I think for some folks it might be.. I have a 12" jointer.. If I had a 16" jointer.. I could see the bigger resaw height..

One day when I get a proper shop, I will buy another one of these .. hopefully I will find a Centauro 800 or 900 .. I would actually run small blades on the big saw and use this one as a dedicated Resaw.. The big wheels are awesome for cutting curves.. The big saws will run small blades if they are set up for it.. Having 30" between the post and blade would be awesome for scroll work..

Having said all that.. I have heard nothing but good things about the newer Grizzly saws.. The MM-16 is probably the most popular bandsaw amongst woodworkers.. Its a fine piece of machinery..

The Laguna Euro saws with the Baldor motors are also extremely well regarded.. they hold an amazing resale value.. likely because owners usually only sell if they are getting a bigger saw..

I have a friend who just picked up a Felder 540 for $1500.00 .. It needed some love, but totally worth it..
I have another buddy who purchased a Centauro 500, single phase, running fine for $1000.00 ..

[Greg Wittler]

That is a beautiful saw! Been checking for used saws in Ca. have found nothing like what you have. Anything more that a 17" would be too much for the space I have right now, but in the (hopefully near) future when I move out of state, I will have more space for a saw like that SCMI. Excellent Restoration Job, it looks like new.

Greg

[Greg Wittler]

After looking at all the pros and cons I went with a fully loaded Laguna 16HD with the Driftmaster fence, Resaw King blade + 3 more blades and the Mobility kit. I felt that the Grizz and Laguna had better table support and tilt mechanisms, and the Baldor motor and the Laguna guides cinched it for me. Now I will have to wait a little longer for my G0490 Jointer.

Thanks Again to all the informative people from SMC.

[Scot Ferraro]

Congrats on your purchase...I think that you will be extremely pleased with your new saw. Looking forward to the pics once you get it!

Scot

[kenneth kayser]

If a person gets the wrong part from Grizzly, it is because they didn't take the couple of minutes to look it up..

I don't see how such a statement could be made unless you know of every replacement part order ever shipped by Grizzly. Believe me, I had the parts list in front of me and was standing next to the sander when I placed the order. The part that was shipped was the part I needed, but it did not fit my sander. When I called and said it did not fit, I was told, tough luck, what I had was all that was available. Ok, no one stocks parts forever and the sander was almost 4 years old. But, to charge shipping and a re-stocking charge tells me Grizzly does not want future business and will not get it. When Bosch shipped the wrong vacuum adapter for my sander, they just refunded the charge and said to discard the item.