Questions about chisels

[Stephen Edwards]

I want to buy a set of chisels. I'm leaning toward the Irwin Marples set of four for around 30 bucks. I think that they'll be satisfactory for my needs.

I've looked at a lot of different chisels on the net. Most ads say that the chisels will need to be sharpened and the backs flattened before using. Why is that so? Every chisel that I've bought in years past had a flat back already. And, why wouldn't a brand new chisel be sharp?

I was reading a James Krenov book where he talked about and showed pics of his chisels with a double bevel on them. What are the advantages of that double bevel.

Thanks for your time and info.

[Sean Hughto]

What exactly are your "needs" with respect to chisels? Because it will make a difference in how folks answer your questions.

The only chisels I've ever received that could be called trully sharp out of the box were Blue Spruce. Everything else needed honing, at the very least to be really sharp. But sharpening chisels is something that needs to be done routinely and fairly often anyway, whether they come sharp or not, so it's sort of beside the point.

As for the backs, you want the potion near the edge (like the last 1/4 at the least) to be very flat because an edge is made up of two planes - the back and the bevel. If one plane isn't flat, it will hurt your ability to get a sharp edge.

[Victor Robinson]

A sharp edge is the intersection of two completely flat planes. While you might think the back of a chisel is flat, it's not *microscopically* flat, which is what you need. This is where the various sharpening methods come in, from fine sandpaper to water stones.

I only recently started sharpening my chisels, and man oh man does it make a difference! I can't believe I thought they actually came "out of the box" sharp! From what I understand, if you're purchasing chisels in the $30-$100 range for a set (considered bargain chisel realm), you really need to do some sharpening or you'll never know what you're missing.

Sharpening can be done with a setup as simple as a piece of plate glass (or granite slab), and various grits of fine sandpaper (say 400 grit through 2000). You'll also need a honing guide, which helps you hold the chisel at the right angle to properly flatten the bevel. Rockler sells a sharpening kit for $34 which I recently got and it has worked well.

There are lots of sharpening vids on the web - Fine Woodworking has many on the subject and they are quite informative.

As for your actual chisel selection I can't be of much help. Personally I only recently moved away from the big box brands to a slightly finer set of chisels. I got the Narex chisel set from Highland Woodworking (on sale for $50, 6 chisel set), which were rated as best value in Fine Woodworking's chisel shootout. They sharpened up really nicely and I'm quite satisfied with the purchase. Drop me a PM if you'd like me to send you a pdf of the article.

[John Keeton]

Another vote for the Narex! Just to show how popular they are, the price has nearly doubled in 2 years!! I paid $26 for mine. Great chisels, and far superior IMO to the Marples. Handles aren't great, but for the money they are hard to beat.

[Peter Quinn]

One more vote for Narex. I too got them from Highland a few years back when they were a bit cheaper, but they are still a great value. You will need to flatten them and sharpen them, they are not ready out of the box. Few Are. I have a set of Pfeil butt chisels that came sharp, but that is a rare exception.

Why are they not flat? That costs money, and you are buying budget chisels at that price point, so it takes some sweat equity to make them into users. Why must they be sharpened? You pick the angle that works for your work among other reasons. And it is good practice for a life time of use. Think of it as the first date at the beginning of a long relationship.

Which set to get? It is a personal choice based on hand feel as much as anything. I suggest you put a few of each in your hand at a store to see what feels right. Like most hand tools, you are more likely to enjoy using them if they fit well in your hand.

[Jeff Nolan]

The Irwin Marples are fine chisels, I don't have any hesitation about reaching for them over my so-called premium chisels.

One easy modification that makes the Marples a lot better, cut 1 1/2" off the end of each handle. This give the chisel a lot better balance and control.

Secondly, you can grind the side bevels to make them more like a dovetail chisel but that's an incremental gain while cutting down the handle makes a huge difference.

A lot of woodworkers look down on the Marples as a big box brand and the Narex as cheap knockoffs, I think they are perfectly good tools that do the job... but hey I don't check the sharpness of my handtools with a scanning electron microscope either.

[george wilson]

IIRC,everyone else has said the Irwin Marples are too soft. I have a set of 1960's Marples that have done well for me,but they were made in a different era.

I also urge buying the Narex.

Have you ever seen a new pocket knife to be sharp? Chisels,too,just have a ground edge,which isn't sharp as you need. It is ready to hone sharp.

Also,pay attention to the advice on making sure the backs are flat. You seem to be new to this,so look CAREFULLY at the backs with a GOOD straight edge,not a dime store ruler. You need a steel rule with precision ground edges.

[Karl Brogger]

I've got a 10 piece set of Frued chisels. I've had them for close to ten years. I want to say they were about $150 for the set, but I'm not sure. The hold an edge real well, and sharpen pretty easily. I'm a fanatic about sharp chisels and I do not care for chisels that are much less than razor sharp. When I get done sharpening they remove hair easily. Down side to the Frueds is the wood handles. Although not using a hammer to tap the handles does lead to obsessive sharpening habits, which isn't all bad, and it makes you better with a chisel to begin with.


I sharpen using a small diameter wet grinding wheel. I can't think of the brand, but its on its last leg. Typically I grind out any knicks or imperfections, then hit the edge with a buffing wheel, then very lightly grind it again to remove any of the lip that the buffing wheel straighten otu. Then a final couple of hits with the buffing wheel, (at this point the edge is polished), and its set.

[george wilson]

I NEVER,EVER BUFF an edge!!!!! I grind, hone on a diamond stone to quickly remove roughness, then hone on a black ceramic stone,then on a white,then strop a little.

When I visited Woodcraft Supply years ago,I TWICE messed up my pocket knife edge trying the leather power stropping wheel on different visits. I don't know why I even tried it,since I already knew that it wasn't going to give a result suitable to me. Just bored,I guess!!!

The meaning of sharpness is a subjective thing,is the problem. I prefer a true acute edge,not a rounded over but sharp edge.

[Mike Henderson]

I agree with George (in general). I use a buffing wheel to sharpen carving tools, but the bevel angle on a carving tool is very small. It seems that with a very small bevel angle the buffing wheel does not seriously dub the edge. Whatever the reason, I get sharp carving tools off the leather buffing wheel. I've tried many times to sharpen my woodworking chisels on the same buffing wheel and all it does is make the edge worse.

I use that buffing wheel on carving tools because I want to spend time carving and not sharpening - and the buffing wheel is the fastest way I've found to sharpen carving tools. And it does work. But not for woodworking chisels.

Mike

[Karl Brogger]

I can not get an edge on a knife doing it this way. Chisel, hell yeah. But who the **** am I anyway, right George?

edit- never tried a leather wheel, I use a cloth one, I don't know how that fits into the equation.

[george wilson]

I don't know who you are,Karl,except for the guy who doesn't believe in push sticks,and thinks we are all hobby types :).

[Mike Cruz]

Stephen, out of the box, your chisels will seem sharp...no doubt. What folks here are talking about is not whether or not the chisel will "work" (in other words, go into wood) or cut you. But rather that they are not a fine honed edge out of the box. A properly sharpened chisel will EASILY shave the hair off your arm. NO! I'M NOT SUGGESTING YOU TRY THIS!!!!!! It is the method my boss taught me, and I use it. But I also don't use a guard on my TS, get the picture? Anyway, the point is that out of the box the chisels are ground sharp, not honed. If someone gave you two chisels, one out of the box and the other properly honed, and you used them side by side, you would CERTAINLY notice the difference, in smoothness (of the cut, NOT IN TOUCHING IT!!!!!), the shaving that came off, and the amount of pressure you had to apply. Hope that answers your "sharp out of the box question". Oh, I have the Marples and am perfectly happy with them (the 8 piece set).

[James Carmichael]

Marples should be fine as starters, I have an old set of Blue Chips. They will need to be honed and backs flattened before use, otherwise they would cost much more. Higher quality western chisels like Two Cherries, Isles, or Lie-Nielsen are usually dead-flat right out of the box, but unless you don't use it, any chisel will have to be sharpened and the bevel occaisionally reground. May as well learn how to to it from the start.

The backs may look flat, but they arent. Put a piece of 100-grit sandpaper on a dead flat surface like a jointer bed, work the back of the chisel over it, and you'll see what I mean. The abrasion won't be even. The entire back doesn't have to be flat, just a bit right at the edge, in fact, Japanese chisels have a hollow-ground back, intended to make it easy to flatten the back edge. Also, as you hone the bevel, a burr, aka "wire edge", will build up on the back edge and must to be taken off the same way as you flatten the back.

There are about as many sharpening methods as there are chisel users, and they all work. A good test for sharpness is to see if it will shave end grain pine.

[Stephen Edwards]

Thank you all for your replies and suggestions. I appreciate it.

[george wilson]

Even my old 1960's set of Marples have somewhat hollow backs.

As for ALL sharpening methods working,I cannot fathom taking a chisel rough ground from the grinder directly to the buffer! I'd like to see a macro lens photograph of the cutting edge thus made. Its bound to be a bit wavey.

[Lee Schierer]

Another vote for the Narex! Just to show how popular they are, the price has nearly doubled in 2 years!! I paid $26 for mine. Great chisels, and far superior IMO to the Marples. Handles aren't great, but for the money they are hard to beat.

I bought a set of Narex chisels for my son last year for Christmas and I was really impressed. They were sharp out of the box (not scary sharp) and seemed to hold an edge quite well.

[Dave Gaul]

I JUST last week bought a set of the Marples chisels from the borg... $30 I think they were... no IRWIN label.. blue & black handles...
They seemed decent out of the box, but I could tell immediately while trying to clean out a couple mortises in hard maple that they need some sharpening/honing work... guess I need to learn that skill next!!!

Looks like I should have gotten the Narex set!!!

MENTAL NOTE TO SELF: THOROUGHLY scan SMC for info BEFORE making tool purchases!!!

[Bill White]

is the ability to properly sharpen. I was among the crowd who thought that "new is sharp" about 40 years ago. An old geezer who owned an artificial limb and brace shop taught me what sharp was all about. I worked on that danged chisel for a week. He'd look at it, then bang it point down on the anvil. :eek: Hand it back to moi with a "try it again look".
now everyone thinks that I'm an OCD sharpener, but the tools sure work better.
Bill

[Cary Falk]

I have a set of Stanley and they work fine for me. What made the difference was getting a WorkSharp3000. It takes about 2 minutes to get the "can shave hare" edge back. I actually use my chisels now.

[Robert LaPlaca]

I understand the Narex are good chisels (that so happen to be inexpensive)...Might also want to consider the Ashley Iles American Butt or Bench chisels, I have found them to be pretty good. I use the AI butts for dovetails, I like the shortness of the chisels, gives good control.. Only complain is the handles are round and they have a bad habit of rolling off the bench