Incra Router System – User comments?

[Michael Drew]

A few years ago I built Norm’s router table and mounted a 3.25 hp Hitachi plunge router under it. It’s been a great table, but after installing an Incra TS on my table saw last week, then watching the DVD that came with the Incra, I’m pining for the Incra Wonder Fence router table set up. I have been using an older Porter Cable 24” dovetail jig. While I’m certain that folks with more patience than I, and more skill using the PC than I can do wonderful things with it, I find it aggravating and very time consuming to set it up for dovetails. So much so, I find myself avoiding dovetails and using other joinery methods. After watching the DVD and seeing how simple set up and cutting some very cool looking dovetails with the Incra, plus the precision the T-fence offers, I think I’ve convinced myself I really need this set up…….

So now I’m almost ready to click the buy button on the Wonder fence set up and Incra Lift. I’m pretty sure I can build a new top and mount it to Norm’s base and modify it to incorporate the dust collection into the top and Wonder fence.

Before I make this move, I figured it would be a good idea to get some user feedback first.

Does anyone using this system have any regrets or words of wisdom?

[Leigh Betsch]

I have the Wonder Fence on my table. I would get the shorter version if I did it again. I can't remember but I think mine is 27" long and I get a little flex out at the end that I don't think you would get with the shorter (17"?) version. I will probably just remount my positioner closer to the router to sturdy it up but it is a bit of a waste of money to buy the long one and then only use part of the stroke.
Dust collection works good.
The split fence works but the adjustment could be easier, it's ok but you gotta get used to which screws to loosen to make the adjustments.
The miter slide could also be better but I think there are some relatively easy mods that will improve it.
The incremental movements and the accuracy is great and worth the small issues.

[Peter Rivlin]

Why not put an extension on your table saw with a router lift in it? I did this with my TS and Incra fence and then added the Wonder fence which attaches to the face of the TS fence. I have a woodpeck PRL for a lift and get accuracy within a few thousandths up/down and side to side.

PR

[Michael Drew]

Why not put an extension on your table saw with a router lift in it? I did this with my TS and Incra fence and then added the Wonder fence which attaches to the face of the TS fence. I have a woodpeck PRL for a lift and get accuracy within a few thousandths up/down and side to side.

PR

I thought about doing just that. I could then peddle my stand alone router table and get some floor space back too. But after thinking about if for a while, I’d just prefer to keep the router table. For one, I keep all my bits and ‘stuff’ in the router table. I also like to be able to stand on either side or in front of the router table. Then there is also the benefit of being able to use the TS, then just walk over to the table and do what I need to do there.


I have the Wonder Fence on my table. I would get the shorter version if I did it again. I can't remember but I think mine is 27" long and I get a little flex out at the end that I don't think you would get with the shorter (17"?) version. I will probably just remount my positioner closer to the router to sturdy it up but it is a bit of a waste of money to buy the long one and then only use part of the stroke.

Dust collection works good.
The split fence works but the adjustment could be easier, it's ok but you gotta get used to which screws to loosen to make the adjustments.
The miter slide could also be better but I think there are some relatively easy mods that will improve it.
The incremental movements and the accuracy is great and worth the small issues.

Thanks for that input. Can you tell me if cutting dovetails is as painless as Incra would like us to believe? The one aspect I do not like, and find hard to believe is that you actually have to re-position the fence to make additional cuts in the same location. I’m having trouble believing that this system is that repeatable.

[Ray Newman]

Like all of us, over the years I've seen the INCRA show exhibits and the exhibitors make it all looks so easy doing those "contrasting-wood-triple-dovetail-with box joint-whatever-joints".;)

And once again, I considered buying an INCRA this fall. At the time, I really started to get serious about the purchase as I priced out the various set ups, any additional/needed bits, etc. Then I decided that before I bought one, I should "invest" US $25.00 or so to purchase the instructional video.

I watched the video several times and apparently the repeatability is there. I never heard INCRA users say that it wasn't.

But the fact that you constantly need to reposition the work is what turned me off. Seems like a great deal of moving the working to make the cuts and I could see that it might be possible to misread the scale and make a cut in the wrong location. In the past I talked to INCRA owners who said that after the "novelty" wore off, the constant moving of the fence/jig was just too tiring and time consuming and they needed to really watch the scale for the correct location.

INCRA, like all dovetail/box joint & postioning machines/jigs has its pluses and minuses and a learning curve. I think a potential purchaser really needs to consider the type of work he/she does and wants to do and will it best fit the bill?....

[Leigh Betsch]

Can you tell me if cutting dovetails is as painless as Incra would like us to believe? The one aspect I do not like, and find hard to believe is that you actually have to re-position the fence to make additional cuts in the same location. I’m having trouble believing that this system is that repeatable.

Nothing works quite as well as the sales literture would have you believe. The dovetails come out very nice but it is a bit complicated, but not too bad and once you learn the set up technique it's not bad at all. Repositioning the fence is just fine, great accuracy. I would do some searching on how to modify the right angle slide though. The nylon screws that you use to snug it to the fence just don't work welll for me. The Incra customer support guy told me that you need to push the right angle attachment along the fence just like a coping sled and not rely on the nylon screws to hold it to the fence. I also seem to rock it while pushing it. I think some have installed longer UMHW plastic guides that improve this. I just checked, mine is the LS Positioner Super System, which includes the Wonder Fence, 28 inch. But I would by the 17" next time.

[Mike Sandman]

For 10+ years I've been using the Incra TS fence and I bought the Incra extension and an Incra router fence to attach to the TS fence so I could swap the TS fence & gauage around to use the router extenstion table.

The TS fence is great -- amazingly repeatable and very solid. It's a bit of a pain to shift the fence from the right side of the TS over to the left, and if you went with a separate rounter table and a second Incra gauge to move the Wonder Fence you'd have great accuracy and repeatability plus covenience.

I've made dovetails and raised panels with a PC 890 router mounted beneath the Incra TS extension, and the gauge is equally solid and accurate. For dovetails I have to dig out the manual every time and follow the instructions to the letter, or I'll screw it up. If you try to apply logic rather than reading the dovetail instructions you'll get very frustrated. For raised panels, I made my own instruction manual by taking a few photos of the setup.

If you buy the router gear from Incra, Just remember where you put the manual for dovetails and you'll be fine -- not nearly as quick as the DVD, but accurate and easy just the same.

[Michael Drew]

Thank you both.

I pretty much figured that there was no way cutting dovetails would be as simple as in the instructional DVD. While it does look to be something that can be easily messed up, I can mess them up with relative ease using my PC dovetail jig. I always forget to flip a board the right way…. When I do use it, I usually end up with a pile of rejected boards and sawdust that has more mass than the keepers.

If the Incra is in fact repeatable for making cuts (which Mike indicated it was), I think I would prefer cutting DT’s with the Incra over my PC jig.

So for you guys that have used these for a while, what dimensions would you recommend for the table top that I will need to make?

Any happy Christmas Eve day to everyone!

[Jacob Mac]

My experience is that the Incra is pretty fussy to setup, but after you get it dialed in, you can make DTs without much problem. The thing is though, you have to dial it in everytime you use it. I just don't like doing it that much. In fact, I have been contemplating selling my Incra fence for some time.

My guess is that you could buy a DT saw, grind some cheap chisels a little so you can clean up the sockets, and cut them by hand. I went that way, and if I can do it, anyone can. And it does not take a long time to cut them either. I am not a neander by any strech, but cutting dts by hand is viable.

If you want a jig, I like the Leigh superjig a lot more than my Incra fence. My brother has it, and I think it is a better approach. YMMV.

[Peter Kuhlman]

I own lots of Incra and Woodpecker products. I really like the router system - but - for dovetails it is kind of a pain. If your needs are for short boards for box making, it works quite well. If you are needing to dovetail long boards, you are doing this vertically and it becomes quite unstable and results in poor fitting dovetails. You never see this demoed with drawer length or longer boards for a reason! Others may have different viewpoints or results.

[Alan Schaffter]

The INCRA is repeatable and accurate. My first three attempts:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/500/medium/IMG_3025.jpg

Like anything jig it won't make the joint for you, you must know what you are doing and do it with care. You also need to look at it from the point you are buying a precision fence system for your router table for a whole host of functions one of those being cutting dovetails and sliding dovetails. A dovetail jig can only be used to cut dovetails.

[Gene DiNardo]

I mounted it on a piece of mdf and clamped it to my tablesaw.
That way, I can remove it if it's in the way.
I havn't had to remove it yet (several months).
I too would go with the shorter lenth (17").

[Michael Drew]

My experience is that the Incra is pretty fussy to setup, but after you get it dialed in, you can make DTs without much problem. The thing is though, you have to dial it in everytime you use it. I just don't like doing it that much. In fact, I have been contemplating selling my Incra fence for some time.


My guess is that you could buy a DT saw, grind some cheap chisels a little so you can clean up the sockets, and cut them by hand. I went that way, and if I can do it, anyone can. And it does not take a long time to cut them either. I am not a neander by any strech, but cutting dts by hand is viable.

If you want a jig, I like the Leigh superjig a lot more than my Incra fence. My brother has it, and I think it is a better approach. YMMV.


Well I have to do the same thing with my PC Omnijig, and to call it agrivating would only be partially accurate. It has nearly took flight across my shop in a fit of anger more than once. However, after I do finally get it set up correctly, the joints fit nicely. I’ve cut DT’s by hand before, which is why I ended up buying the Omnijig. It was not a pleasurable experience for me. I woodwork for fun, and cutting DT’s by hand just isn’t fun for me.


[FONT=Verdana]Peter Kuhlman;1291936]I own lots of Incra and Woodpecker products. I really like the router system - but - for dovetails it is kind of a pain. If your needs are for short boards for box making, it works quite well. If you are needing to dovetail long boards, you are doing this vertically and it becomes quite unstable and results in poor fitting dovetails. You never see this demoed with drawer length or longer boards for a reason! Others may have different viewpoints or results.

I was wondering about that…….. Thanks for your comments. I don’t make little boxes. The bulk of things I make is Arts / Crafts stile furniture. DT’s are primarily for cabinet drawers.


The INCRA is repeatable and accurate. Like anything jig it won't make the joint for you, you must know what you are doing and do it with care. You also need to look at it from the point you are buying a precision fence system for your router table for a whole host of functions one of those being cutting dovetails and sliding dovetails. A dovetail jig can only be used to cut dovetails.

Nice looking boxes! I find your comments akin to something I’d say. My motto is “pay attention to detail”. It was beat into my head in bootcamp twenty some years ago and never left……….

[Narayan Nayar]

I've got an Incra system and have had it for four years. It's a TS-LS 32, and I have the router installed in a tablesaw extension cabinet.

For the tablesaw, I love it. And I like it too on the router, but for different reasons.

The only time I use it for dovetail or box joints is if I'm mass-making pieces. So when I was building out my shop and needed to make lots of drawers, I used the Incra for the dovetails. Took about 10 min total to setup and I could just bang the joints out after that, one after another, almost without thinking about it. The factors which require the system to be setup are the width and thickness of the boards.

But I don't use it for boxes or anything that's a one-off (or a two or three off, for that matter). It's easier for me to handcut those joints now, and to my eye, they look nicer.

To sum up, it's a great production system if you're making a lot of the same thing. I wouldn't call it a pain to set up--it's actually very easy. Just cumbersome.

The dust collection on the wonderfence is very nice though, and I use that even when I'm not doing joinery.

[Michael Drew]

I was going to order the super system and had an idea to run by you guys. It has been suggested to go with the 17” LS verses the 25” because it is more stable.

I was thinking the extra length might come in handy. Not real sure when or why, but I’d hate to wish for more and not have it. So I was just pondered the idea of mounting the positioner on a board that would have some T-bolts through it. I’d install some T-miters in the table top that I need to build. This would enable me to secure the positioner closer to the fence and move it further away if I needed the extra length. What do you think?

[Mark Carlson]

Sounds like a good idea to me. I pretty much do the same thing but with magnets. I have a steel router table from quality grinding, and a 17in LS mounted to a board with 4 magjig magnets which holds it to the table. I glued fine sandpaper under the board so it won't slip. I allways secure the board close to the fence so its rock solid. With this setup I can mount the fence any where on the router table extension or on my cast iron table saw.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=106234&d=1231385772

~mark


I was going to order the super system and had an idea to run by you guys. It has been suggested to go with the 17” LS verses the 25” because it is more stable.

I was thinking the extra length might come in handy. Not real sure when or why, but I’d hate to wish for more and not have it. So I was just pondered the idea of mounting the positioner on a board that would have some T-bolts through it. I’d install some T-miters in the table top that I need to build. This would enable me to secure the positioner closer to the fence and move it further away if I needed the extra length. What do you think?

[Dave Shawley]

Since this thread is still seeing some activity... I am just starting with my Incra router system and have had good luck with it so far. I just went to do some half-blind dovetails on 3/4 stock noticed that the jig calls for 1/2" 10° bits. Of course I have no such bit today (I will in a few days though). This is my first dovetail jig some I wasn't paying attention when I bought it to make sure that I got the correct bit set - I didn't even know that jigs would require specific bits. Needless to say that I am much wiser now ;)

Michael, if you are still thinking about purchasing a DT jig, make sure that you buy the appropriate bits. Interestingly enough, the CMT Dovetail Bit set specifically for Incra jigs on Woodcraft does not include a 10° bit!

BTW - does anyone have any experience with adjusting the usage of the Incra system to work properly with say 14° bits?

[Jerome Hanby]

You could do both. Get another router to devote to the TS extension. Do all your normal router stuff on the table you currently use and use the TS mounted one for Incra template work...



I thought about doing just that. I could then peddle my stand alone router table and get some floor space back too. But after thinking about if for a while, I’d just prefer to keep the router table. For one, I keep all my bits and ‘stuff’ in the router table. I also like to be able to stand on either side or in front of the router table. Then there is also the benefit of being able to use the TS, then just walk over to the table and do what I need to do there.

[Jerome Hanby]

I bought a Freud 8 bit set for the Incra from a creeker a while back. I would never have had the correct dovetail bits otherwise...


Since this thread is still seeing some activity... I am just starting with my Incra router system and have had good luck with it so far. I just went to do some half-blind dovetails on 3/4 stock noticed that the jig calls for 1/2" 10° bits. Of course I have no such bit today (I will in a few days though). This is my first dovetail jig some I wasn't paying attention when I bought it to make sure that I got the correct bit set - I didn't even know that jigs would require specific bits. Needless to say that I am much wiser now ;)

Michael, if you are still thinking about purchasing a DT jig, make sure that you buy the appropriate bits. Interestingly enough, the CMT Dovetail Bit set specifically for Incra jigs on Woodcraft does not include a 10° bit!

BTW - does anyone have any experience with adjusting the usage of the Incra system to work properly with say 14° bits?

[Michael Drew]

Since this thread is still seeing some activity... I am just starting with my Incra router system and have had good luck with it so far. I just went to do some half-blind dovetails on 3/4 stock noticed that the jig calls for 1/2" 10° bits. Of course I have no such bit today (I will in a few days though). This is my first dovetail jig some I wasn't paying attention when I bought it to make sure that I got the correct bit set - I didn't even know that jigs would require specific bits. Needless to say that I am much wiser now ;)

Michael, if you are still thinking about purchasing a DT jig, make sure that you buy the appropriate bits. Interestingly enough, the CMT Dovetail Bit set specifically for Incra jigs on Woodcraft does not include a 10° bit!

BTW - does anyone have any experience with adjusting the usage of the Incra system to work properly with say 14° bits?


Ya I noticed that as well when I ordered it. I ordered a 6 bit Whiteside set when I ordered the system. That is a good point to bring up.....

[Michael Drew]

I’m having a brain fart. I’ve been pondering table top design and thought I knew what I wanted to do and just how big to make it. My current table is 36” wide and I like that width for larger boards. When I think about using this fence for cutting dovetails, 18 inches to the bit seams like it would be an uncomfortable reach. So now I’m trying to come up with a way to make a support that the posisioner would mount to that I could attach to the rear of the table and also to the side of the table and move it back and forth as needed. If I did this, I would always be standing / working at the front of the table. I’m not coming up with an elegant solution to this idea. To complicate this idea, I had planned to put a miter in the table, but if do, the miter would be perpendicular to the fence when I move the positioner to the side for DT work. When I think back and try to remember just how often I use the miter, it isn’t very often. I'm now thinking about building this top without a miter.

Anyone have any ideas or words of wisdom to share? I was planning on building the top over the next day or two but now I’m stuck.

[Michael Drew]

I decided to get creative with the LS mounting. I built a little table with T-slots in it that the positioner mounts to. I can move it to the rear or the side. I have about 8” of travel by just loosening the T-bolts and sliding the positioner toward / away from the router collet. The router lift is offset in the table from front to back so if I move the fence to the side mounting position, the bit will be 12" from the leading edge.

Now I just need to figure out where to mount the Wixey display.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/mdrew/20100214-P2146174.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/mdrew/20100214-P2146175.jpg

[Leigh Betsch]

I like the T slot mount! It would allow me to move the positioner closer to the action and take out the little wiggle I have, and move it bak for big stuff.

[Van Huskey]

Michael, if you are still thinking about purchasing a DT jig, make sure that you buy the appropriate bits. Interestingly enough, the CMT Dovetail Bit set specifically for Incra jigs on Woodcraft does not include a 10° bit!



I am not sure any quality set has the 10* bit. The Freud 8 piece and the neither of the Whiteside 6 piece sets have them (though I know Whiteside makes 3 10* bits for Incra). I think Whiteside makes 11 different dovetails for the Incra, I only have 8 of them but the other three are on my "list".

[Christopher Stahl]

I too have the 25" LS Super System and have been very happy with it. I bought it back in 2003. At first, I did have to break out the directions every time, but once you understand the system, you can fly through making dovetails. It's accurate! I do like knowing that if I need to make a dado 5" in, I can set the gauge to 5" and it's on. I have to agree with Alan, you're buying into a precision fence system and I feel you're getting a lot with it.

One plus for the 25" model is I had to build a larger router table. In the end, that worked out great because I like have the larger table for larger projects.

Michael, I like how you did the mounting system. I also have a Wixey to install.

By the way, I also have the Whiteside bit set.

[Michael Heffernan]

I have the Incra LS17 SuperSystem mounted to a dedicated router table/cabinet. It is a great system. Extremely repeatable and accurate. I don't use it much for DT joints. As others have said, for small stock, it works well. But when you are cutting long stock, as for drawers, it's a little unwieldy and prone to inaccurate cuts. I have an Akeda BC24 jig that I use for most of my DT and Box joints. With a dedicated DT jig, you can securely clamp long and wide stock in the jig for accurate cuts. Some jigs are fussier than others. I prefer the Akeda for simplicity of set-up and repeatablilty.
I do use my Incra LS router system almost everyday for a variety of other operations. The fact that you can fine tune it in 1/1000ths of an inch, makes my work very accurate. I rout dadoes, rabbits, molding, profiles, rail and stiles etc. precisely and cleanly. Having a router lift in the table (I have a Triton MOF001 router with built-in height adjustment), increases the accuracy and ease of use. I enjoy using it every time I need it.
I do have to reach for the manual every time I do make DTs on the Incra, but I don't find the set-up to be difficult. I can get it dialed in quickly and on the first test cut, using their described methods, a digital height gauge and a caliper (for board thickness).
It is a great addition to any shop for a variety of operations.

[bruce thom]

Had trouble with getting the Incra Ultra to cut joints the way I wanted consistantly. Loose joints drive me crazy! Anyway I set to tighten things up with a process approach towards improvement. My system now cuts flawless 1/2 blind and full dovetails about every time now. I'm now looking forward to progressing some of the more advanced joinery thats possible with the Incra system.

Of particular note: replaced the slightly chewed up runners on the base of the Horizontal fixture with custom made plywood/polyethylene replacements. Extended them another 2" out the back from the originals for added support. The polyetylene was cut from a large cutting board purchased from sams club. That stuff even joints nice! The fixture slides much better now.

Here are the steps I took to get it RIGHT!
INCRA JIG Improvements for cutting Dovetails:

DONE - Tighten all Screws on Fence and jig

DONE - Verify Incra Jig Fence is 90 to router table top - shim if needed

DONE - Remove jig from table and blow out dust - blow out and brush incra jig teeth

DONE - Adjust router Table plate to be level with router tabletop height

DONE - Verify Router Base Plate is tightly secured to router table plate

DONE - Measure dovetail router bits with calipers to ensure correct sizing
Mark with Sharpie the size and bit type on bit shaft.

DONE - Clean dovetails bits of pitch and touch up with diamond stone.

Make dovetail rabbeting standup push jig.

DONE - Make new Horizontal jig jig runners from UHMW or Polyethylene Cutting Board.
DONE - Make spares runner part for future use (both 5" and 7")

Add Aluminum or Wood Cross Member to runner extensions.

Add Lead Weight to top of base of Horizontal Fixture.
Add a good handle to Horizontal fixture to push with.

Install UHMW on inside of horizontal fixture Al slide.

Install MDF backer board on Horiz. fixture?

DONE - Test locking the router height. Note: not needed

FUTURE - Install in the table dust collection?
FUTURE - Install a tabletop dust collection catch.

Let me know if any of this is of help.

TJ
Life is too short...this is not a rehearsal.

[Alan Schaffter]

If anyone is still reading this thread, I have some ideas that I may experiment with some day.

First I don't have an LS Positioner fence- yet. Second, I have a modified NYW router table, and third I picked up a nice piece of granite countertop that I would like to use for a top (I was going to have a local shop use their CNC abrasive waterjet to cut the opening in the granite for my router lift.)

If I add an LS, I will need to leave quite a bit of space behind the table for the INCRA mechanism, even the 17" one, and I won't be able to roll the cabinet tight against the wall when I stow it unless I do something like Michael (see his pics above)- make an attachment shelf I can reposition to the side when I want to stow the cabinet against the wall. But, I'm always in a rush and that seems like too much trouble. So . . .

How about I attach the LS mount to:

(a) a shelf like Michael's, but one with a different mounting- so the shelf can be removed easily, just by lifting and dropped into another mount on the side. I envision a wide, "V" shaped mating probe and socket type mount that would lock via a wedging action with minimal operator action. Might it get stuck on occasion?

(b) a shelf that can rotate on a horizontal arm/turntable, or better yet, slide in a curved T-slot that runs from the back to the side(s). One (or both) rear corner(s) of the table top would be an arc whose center is the router collet. It might be hard to lock the shelf so there is no play in the Positioner.

(c) a shelf that is attached to the back of the table via sturdy, widely-spaced hinges or piano hinge. When I want to stow the table against the wall, I just remove an angle brace and tilt the shelf down which causes the entire fence to tilt vertically. That would require less space than the existing DC fitting on the back of the cabinet! Designed properly, once tilted, the entire fence assembly could be stowed below the level of the table top. It would be out of the way and leave a wide open top for free-hand routing. Do I ever need to mount the Positioner on the side?

Right now I have almost convinced myself that (c) is, by far, the best option for a number of reasons- quicker and easier to operate, easier to make, least chance of play, simpler locking mechanism, allows for a totally unobstructed top, can be used with my granite top, can be used with a 25" Positioner, etc.

Have I missed anything?

[Richard Link]

I've used the Incra LS positioner off and on for a couple of years. I built it into a router table and more recently have built an add on to my sliding combo machine for it. I've had some difficulty using it for dovetails primarily due to the bulk of the stop used to limit depth on the last step. This makes cutting the first dovetail at the edge of the board difficult without driving the bit into the aluminum stop. The manual describes cutting off the head of a nylon screw, etc. to make this work but the manual is apparently not compatible with my version of the stop.....

Could someone either describe what they use as a low profile stop or perhaps take a photo so that I can replicate it?

[Chris Harry]

If anyone is still reading this thread, I have some ideas that I may experiment with some day.

First I don't have an LS Positioner fence- yet. Second, I have a modified NYW router table, and third I picked up a nice piece of granite countertop that I would like to use for a top (I was going to have a local shop use their CNC abrasive waterjet to cut the opening in the granite for my router lift.)

If I add an LS, I will need to leave quite a bit of space behind the table for the INCRA mechanism, even the 17" one, and I won't be able to roll the cabinet tight against the wall when I stow it unless I do something like Michael (see his pics above)- make an attachment shelf I can reposition to the side when I want to stow the cabinet against the wall. But, I'm always in a rush and that seems like too much trouble. So . . .

How about I attach the LS mount to:

(a) a shelf like Michael's, but one with a different mounting- so the shelf can be removed easily, just by lifting and dropped into another mount on the side. I envision a wide, "V" shaped mating probe and socket type mount that would lock via a wedging action with minimal operator action. Might it get stuck on occasion?

(b) a shelf that can rotate on a horizontal arm/turntable, or better yet, slide in a curved T-slot that runs from the back to the side(s). One (or both) rear corner(s) of the table top would be an arc whose center is the router collet. It might be hard to lock the shelf so there is no play in the Positioner.

(c) a shelf that is attached to the back of the table via sturdy, widely-spaced hinges or piano hinge. When I want to stow the table against the wall, I just remove an angle brace and tilt the shelf down which causes the entire fence to tilt vertically. That would require less space than the existing DC fitting on the back of the cabinet! Designed properly, once tilted, the entire fence assembly could be stowed below the level of the table top. It would be out of the way and leave a wide open top for free-hand routing. Do I ever need to mount the Positioner on the side?

Right now I have almost convinced myself that (c) is, by far, the best option for a number of reasons- quicker and easier to operate, easier to make, least chance of play, simpler locking mechanism, allows for a totally unobstructed top, can be used with my granite top, can be used with a 25" Positioner, etc.

Have I missed anything?

I have a bench dog router table and cabinet setup that i want to add my 17" LS system too. Right now I have it in place with just 2 speed clamps because I dont use it for fine joinery yet. Even though the router table isnt mobile I want to be able to flip the LS out of the way when not in use (the rail sticks out enough people can get caught on it when walking by), so i was going for option C in your list....a heavy duty hinge setup mounted to a board that the LS will mount to. When not in use just flip it back and out of the way.

Ive just never gotten around to doing it :)

[jason steele]

I've used Incra since they first came out onto the market. If you're using it for dovetails, 17" is more than enough. I find it hard to manage if my dovetails goes pass 10". The fence is too far from the bit and the stock is no longer supported by the carriage, but still do able. You'll just have to support it somehow. The hardest part about the jig is setting the height. Once you get it, make a test cut and save it as your template. Mark down which template it goes with. Have fun... it's a great jig.

Jason