1st TIME WITH MAHOGANY ???

[denis tuomey]

:) After the 1st of the year I am going to start on an entertainment center made from mahogany for my 1st client.
I have worked with Alder=nice, Red Oak=:mad: difficult to profile, Hard Maple=difficult to stain, Soft Maple=nice, and Walnut= :) very,very nice, but never have worked with Mahogany :confused:.
Was wondering if any Creekers that have worked with Mahogany could provide some info on the ins/outs - do's n don'ts with this type of wood?

[Frank Drew]

Denis,

To my mind, the best Mahogany is what's sometimes called Genuine Mahogany, and it's from Central and South America; Cuban and West Indian mahogany (Swietenia mahogani) is often considered the really primo stuff, but it's rare, therefore hard to find, and very expensive when you do find it. What's called Honduran Mahogany (Swietenia macrophylla) isn't just from Honduras, but the very best of it can (IMO) rival Cuban in color and hardness; most isn't quite that nice but is nevertheless a very good timber, easy to work and terrific under finish. Mahogany is by far my favorite furniture wood, when adding up all its qualities (but subtracting a bit because it isn't nearly as available as it used to be.)

Then there are all the other "mahoganies", such as African mahogany, etc., which are much easier to find these days and can be of decent quality, although not, that I've seen, in the same league as the "genuine" stuff.

[Jeff Monson]

For me mohagany is easy to rout, but prone to tear out. Keep in mind its an open grained wood so you'll have to use filler if you want a glass smooth surface. Once finished its one beutiful wood.

[Steve Rowe]

Frank is spot on. I have used the Honduras mahogany and it has excellent color and machining properties. It is difficult to find and is worth the premium.

I have also used the African mahogany but it is horrible to work with. The genuine article has a reddish fairly uniform color. The African mahogany is lighter in color and has ribbons of light and dark through it. I have had a reputable dealer state that he had the Honduras mahogany so the next day, I get in the truck and drive 85 miles to get it. He actually has African mahogany and the sales rep I was working with had no clue on what the difference was. Needless to say, it was a wasted trip.

[David DeCristoforo]

Most woods sold as "mahogany" are not mahogany. "African mahogany", "Philippine mahogany" and others are called mahogany by virtue of the fact that they resemble mahogany in figure, color, density, or some combination of those properties. The only "real" mahogany sold in the US at this time is Honduras mahogany. It is a fairly light weight wood, easy to cut and mill but, as mentioned, prone sometimes to "ropey" grain that can tear and chip. So very sharp tooling is your first line of defense. Honduras mahogany is also pretty light in color, not the rich dark tone people tend to associate with mahogany. The premier mahogany was Cuban which has a naturally rich, dark color. But that wood was harvested to near extinction many years ago and Honduras mahogany has been the only good option ever since. But it has to be stained to achieve the color most people think of when they hear the word "mahogany".

[Michael O'Sullivan]

What do people think about Sapele as a substitute for Mahogany? Around here at least (in the Northeast) it tends to be a little less expensive than Hon. Mahogany.

[Rick Gooden]

If you are working with Honduran Mahogany, you'll love it. It mills nicely, is easy to finish, and is insect and decay resistant. Works well inside and outside. I just picked up another 330 bf this morning and it has become my "go to" wood. It is my understanding (maybe wrong) that the movement is consistant in both width and length. My supplier has about a 2 year supply presently so I should be set for a while.

[Matthew Hills]

I've only worked with some small pieces that I'd salvaged when a neighbor's home was demoed. Pretty neat stuff to work with for the most part -- certainly much better than red oak and woods of that ilk. It was nice to cut and chisel (much better than alder for chisel work!), but I did have trouble avoiding chipout when routing curves (whereas the alder hadn't given me much trouble for similar routings).

I'd recommend practicing any complex routing on a scrap piece before you put your nearly-completed pieces in for that final edge treatment. I would recommend very light passes if you are routing cross-grain.

Matt

[Frank Drew]

Most of the factory-produced mahogany furniture that I see has been so poorly stained and finished that it's just about impossible to read the grain, and I'm including some furniture my parents had. But well-chosen boards of the good stuff has a beautiful glow and luster under a clear finish. I like a solution of bichromate of potash to add just a bit of color before the topcoats.

[Ryan Sparreboom]

I have also used the African mahogany but it is horrible to work with.

I really dislike when people make comment like this, but don't back it up with any reason or example.

You have received good information on the different types of mohogany. Honduras mohogany is often very expensive and out of my budget at least. I have worked a few projects with African mahogany, which I find is much nicer to look at, and machines very well. Certainly no more problems with it than many other woods, i.e I didn't find it difficult to cut, plane, not prone to tearout, not hard to sand, or finish.

In appearance, like I said, I find African mahogany more attractive with it's almost irredescent chatoyance, especially in quarter sawn lumber. I find it quite similar to Sapele.

Here's a table I made, the base is african mahogany.
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj158/Boomr99/Woodworking%20Projects/P1040006.jpg

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj158/Boomr99/Woodworking%20Projects/P1040009.jpg

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj158/Boomr99/Woodworking%20Projects/P1040011.jpg

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj158/Boomr99/Woodworking%20Projects/P1040016.jpg

Here is also a small box I made with African Mahogany.

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj158/Boomr99/Woodworking%20Projects/P1040569.jpg

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj158/Boomr99/Woodworking%20Projects/P1040571.jpg

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj158/Boomr99/Woodworking%20Projects/P1040572.jpg


Needless to say, I find it a beautiful wood and look forward to working with it again at any opportunity I can get.
Ryan

[george wilson]

You could actually get real Cuban mahogany being sold from decorative trees that blew down in a hurricane (Andrew?) in Florida years ago. It was $30.00 a bd. ft.. Our furniture conservation dept. bought some. It was quite hard and heavy,but more the color of Honduras than Cuban. I just saw a small sample of the wood that was being sold,of course. May still be available if you google it.

I have several pieces of real Cuban mahogany.Some of it is about 100 years old,and is dead quartered.Beautiful stuff.

That jointer plane I made and posted pictures of months ago,unfortunately in black and white,was stuffed with a very dark and extremely hard piece of Cuban mahogany. I posted a closeup of the handle too.

I have never personally seen a piece of Honduras as hard and dense as Cuban. The Cuban I have is just about as hard as ebony,or very close to it. It polishes beautifully when cut with a very sharp,smooth edge.

When they first began cutting Cuban for sale,they took only the figured stumps,leaving the trunks on the ground in the jungle,I have read. 50 years later,when the wood began to get harder to find,they came back and took the trunks,still good!

Harvesting the tropical woods was a very dangerous and costly operation,as many men died of diseases,and many oxen were also lost.

This story reminds me of the time many years ago in Western Virginia,can't recall where now. The Army came in and cut down a large number of black walnut trees.They took only the stumps for rifle stocks,leaving the rest to rot. What a waste!!!

Another story of the government wasting wood was when a naval architect in WWII had the 10" square ash decking of an aircraft carrier laid lengthwise instead of crossways. The men had to remove all of it,cut the ash up into short blocks and burn it. The men hated to do it,but were not allowed to keep any.

Yet another story: years ago NASA bought a large bunch of the finest aircraft grade Sitka(lived there for a year) quartered spruce. It was to make propellers for wind tunnels. Then they changed their minds and used something else for the props. Some of the men got hold of this spruce,and I got a bunch of it from an old employee,to make guitars with. Fortunately,it wasn't a total loss like the ash.

Your tax dollars at work!!! And the FAA throws a $5,000,000 party in this economy under the pretense of having a meeting.

[Steve Rowe]

I really dislike when people make comment like this, but don't back it up with any reason or example.


Ryan
Sorry you dislike my comments. I never said you couldn't make anything beautiful out of it and I have as well. It just takes a lot more effort than the Honduras. The very thing you note that makes it attractive is the very thing that makes it horrible (IMO) to work with. I have found the lighter sections particularly prone to fuzzing up when both planing and turning and it is not due to dull tools. These sections seem substantially softer than the darker sections (almost, but not quite punky). This results in a lot more sanding to finish. It is substantially less expensive than the Honduras.

[george wilson]

Much easier to work if you have a thickness sander!

[John Lucas]

There is a lot of good advice above, but no mention of sheet or solid wood. As an enterainment center I would guess that you will be using some quality ply for a lot of surfaces. If so, get a sample ply board first. Then when you are looking for the hard wood elements you can have an idea of what you have to match.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

I recently made a vanity and mirror surround from African Mahogany. The grain looked more interesting than either Honduras and generic 'Philippine' mahogany. Each to his own.

As far as work-ability of any mahogany in general, I've never realized any major issues. But, if you disliked working with red oak, mahogany may also be disliked due to the grain structure. As David and Jeff point out, it's prone to tearout.

Ryan...Those are some really nice pieces.

-Jeff :)

[Charles Green]

What do people think about Sapele as a substitute for Mahogany? Around here at least (in the Northeast) it tends to be a little less expensive than Hon. Mahogany.


I love Sapele and bought 350 bdft a few years ago. I do not think it is a substitute for mahogany but a wood that stands on its own. Unless you are trying to match a mahogany piece I see no reason why you couldn't use it. Here are a few projects I've done with mine.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j167/enutees/IMG_7002.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j167/enutees/IMG_3477.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j167/enutees/IMG_1582.jpg

[William M Johnson]

Ok I am going to prove my ignorance. I there a difference between Sapele and "African Mahogony". From the pictures they look the same to me.

I have redone my house with "African" per the guys I bought it from. I have made all of my own baseboards, casing, built ins etc from the stuff. The grain changes can be a problem but I find them beautiful. I bet I have used 750 - 1000 bd ft of it.

I looks just like the pictures of the Sapele

Someone educate me please.

[William M Johnson]

This thread was starting to get buried so I am bringing it forward.

Hate to bother you guys on Christmas but I would like to know if there is a difference between Sapele and "African" Mahagony.

Bill

[Roger Benton]

This thread was starting to get buried so I am bringing it forward.

Hate to bother you guys on Christmas but I would like to know if there is a difference between Sapele and "African" Mahagony.

Bill

according to fine woodworking magazine, there is a difference.
they did a feature on all the "mahoganies" a few issues ago.
according to them, Sapele (Entandrophragma Cylindricum) and Khaya, or African Mahogany (khaya ivorensis) are two separate species. The confusion arises from the fact that both species are indeed from Africa!

Khaya is "long recognized as a good alternative to Cuban and Honduras mahogany..." and, "... is similar... in color and figure, and cost much less..." than those woods.

Sapele, "while highly figured... is quite distinct and won't be mistaken for Cuban or Honduras mahogany."

I can tell you that here in the northeast, the two hardwood dealers I use most often don't or won't recognize the difference between these two woods. Ask for either and get Sapele. They do offer both ribbon stripped sapele, which is the really figured stuff with light and dark stripes, along with rift sawn sapele, which (imho) is a better choice for furniture that will benefit from the quieter figure.

This issue of FW also lists another African species called "Sipo", which they rate as the best, but hardest to find alternative to Honduras and Cuban mahogany.

BTW, FW lists prices for these three African woods as $6-7/bf,
while Cuban and Honduras are $20+ and $10+, respectively.

In my area, the prices for hardwoods are dropping fast over the last 6-7 months, and I can get what my lumber dealer calls 'african mahogany' right now for less than $5/bf, and very large boards are available, which is nice.

The issue quoted is #207, Sept/Oct 2009, the Sam Maloof issue.

Hope this helps.

FWIW, I have worked with Sapele on a few projects and have found that you do need to take care while planing by hand and routing but it is a very satisfying material to craft with.

Good Luck,
Happy Holidays to all!

[Jon Lanier]

I scrolled this out of one piece of Honduran Mahogany and is a dream to cut and shape.

[Ryan Sparreboom]

Yes, African Mahogany and Sapele are different woods. Each page has about a million pictures of each wood too, so you can compare more samples for yourself.

You can read about them here. Click on the fact sheets for more properties.
http://hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/mahogany,%20african.htm

http://hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/sapele.htm

HTH.

Ryan

[Keith Christopher]

I love working with the stuff. I have been fortunate enough to work with many different varieties and it is by far my favorite wood to work with. Yes it has pores but those are easily overcome. As others have said, sharp tools good setup and you will be fine.