Router Table vs Shaper or BOTH?

[Troy Burritt]

I need to upgrade and add some tools in my shop. I currently have a small tabletop router table and misc hand held units for most applications, but want to get a larger more permanent mounted router station and or shaper. My question is what is the best system out there for a router table/cabinet for use with the smaller 1/4, and 1/2 Colet bits with easy to use cutting depth adjustment? And should I invest in a 3-HP shaper for running additional molding profiles at a higher production speed w/auto-feed options? My feeling is yes but wanter to get others take or opinion on size, type, and brand. Grizzly seems to be a popular brand but is the quality there? Most all of the other tools in my shop are of high quality, and I would rather spend a little more now and have something that will last a lifetime so to speak and be able to repair it if needed years down the road.
Any and all comments and suggestions are welcome. Thank you in advance for assisting me in this decision.
Troy :)

[Dick Sylvan]

There was just a thread on this about a week ago, so you might want to search.

[Rick Fisher]

I have both.. I use the Router table more often, mainly due to the variety of bits available.. I have a 3hp Shaper with about 12 cutters.. The cutters are expensive and quickly cost more than the shaper..

The Shaper with a feeder is a fantastic tool, especially when there is a volume of material to machine..

The router table I have gets used for eased edges and chamfers .. some dado's.. although a tablesaw is a better, faster option..

People compare these tools all the time, but to me, they are different and ideally you would have both..

There are all sorts of used shapers around now.. many come with tooling .. The tooling really is very expensive. It lasts much longer than router-bits .. but he cost of admission is steep..

[Jeff Duncan]

A week ago, heck this one's been beat to death multiple times! First do a search and read up on the many times this has been gone over, then go out and buy both:D

good luck,
JeffD

[Chip Lindley]

Long Story, Short! BOTH Shaper and Router Table will be very useful to you. It's not an Either/Or thing! Shapers do BIG STUFF that routers cannot do. Routers do the smaller stuff that is too expensive on a shaper.

Rails and stiles for an entrance door are not too easily done on a router table. Buying a 1/4" roundover cutter for a big shaper is a waste of $$. When your *needs* outgrow the capacity of a router table, you will certainly know it!

[Glen Butler]

Both, if you need the capacity of a shaper. Most things just come out nicer on a shaper, because the cutter geometry, but you pay a premium for bits. So it is not cost effective unless you need production or you have a router bit that invariably tears out. Shapers take longer to set up also, so doing small runs is not time effective either.

[Rod Sheridan]

I have a shaper only, and find that cutter costs are actually lower for the shaper because I use HSS knives in a cutter head.

The knives are in the $20 to $30 range per pair, which is very cost effective.

I have some carbide cutters for the shaper, however since I only machine solid wood, the HSS knives are ideal, and leave a better finish than carbide cutters, and far better than router bits.

CMT, Dimar, Felder etc sell the heads and knives in well over a hundred profiles.

An additional benefit to the shaper is that the spindle is reversible, allowing me to cut with the grain, a router cannot do that.

A shaper with a power feeder can also climb cut when tear out is a problem.

The big issue in my opinion with the Chaiwanese shapers is the fence, Laguna seems to have the nicest fence out of the 3 HP machines.

Or you could pick up a sliding table or tilting spindle machine such as the Hammer F3, or find a good used industrial machine.

A shaper is certainly a worthwhile shop machine, I have never felt the need to own a router table, as I use my shaper for all shaping operations, as well as tenon cutting.

Regards, Rod.

Regards, Rod.

[Cameron Reddy]

Rod,

How's this for a fence? You won't find anything like this on a router table!

http://www.me.com/ro/cameronreddy/Galleries/100071/PM2700-20fence/web.jpg?ver=12609399920001

As far as bits are concerned... We have a saying in the law... Res ipsa loquitur (The Thing Speaks for Itself):

http://www.me.com/ro/cameronreddy/Galleries/100065/_CDR3228/web.jpg?ver=12608502080001

[Josiah Bartlett]

Depending on the profile you are looking to mill, a planer/moulder might be a less expensive choice than a shaper + power feeder, although if you don't need a huge amount of throughput the Grizzly baby power feeder is a good deal and can be used on a router table and table saw as well.

A shaper is a real pleasure to use, though. I love mine.

[Peter Quinn]

Depends on your needs really. I have several of each, and like having both. The shapers do the heavy lifting (raised panels, passage doors, long molding runs, big flush trim and pattern work), the router table is great for quick set ups, smaller cuts, and it can place a slot or dado in the field of a piece of work that I could never reach on my shaper. The router table can play shaper for lots of applications if budget, space, or volume don't suggest or allow a shaper. Many people cut their teeth on a router table and later upgrade, some remain satisfied with a good router table. Depends on the individual needs, and only you can asses those.

One thing I never see in these shaper vrs router posts is what the OP wants to make? What are you trying to make Troy, and how much or how many? If you want to run 16' of base molding one time and maybe make a matching hand rail, than a shaper is a pretty expensive way to go. If you want to make a whole house full of passage doors, a router would be a slow painful process, the shaper starts to make sense in my mind. See where I'm going with this?

[Rod Sheridan]

Rod,

How's this for a fence? You won't find anything like this on a router table!

http://www.me.com/ro/cameronreddy/Galleries/100071/PM2700-20fence/web.jpg?ver=12609399920001

As far as bits are concerned... We have a saying in the law... Res ipsa loquitur (The Thing Speaks for Itself):

http://www.me.com/ro/cameronreddy/Galleries/100065/_CDR3228/web.jpg?ver=12608502080001

I don't know, looks more like a red "X" in a box than a fence:D

Regards, Rod.

[scott vroom]

Rod, how do you handle small cuts (e.g. 1/4" roundover) with the shaper? Also, do you agree with other poster's comments that setup time is longer on the shaper? Do you believe you are getting a cleaner cut on 3/4" raised panel cabinet doors using a shaper Vs router?

You're unusual in the sense that most posters that have a shaper also have a router, and use both depending on the application, whereas you have only a shaper. I know from previous posts that you have a small shop area so I'm wondering how this may have influenced your decision to go with a shaper only. If you had unlimited shop space, would you also own a router?

Thanks-
Scott

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Scott, I don't have any problems doing small profiles on the shaper.

As I stated I use HSS knives mostly, and they do a better job than either carbide shaper cutters or carbide router bits. They also are very inexpensive.

I do have a small shop, however I wouldn't own a router table because I consider it a duplication of a shaper. I haven't run into anything I can't do on the shaper, however there are things you can't do on the router table.

I can't compare setup however lets assume I want to change the router bit in my shaper

- unplug shaper

- using wrenches loosen draw bar

- tap draw bar with wooden mallet

- remove router bit, insert new bit

- tighten draw bar using wrenches

- perhaps change table insert depending upon size of bit (Does this happen on a router table?)

- adjust bit height using elevation handwheel, operate locking lever

- set up infeed fence by using fence adjusters

- set up outfeed fence using straight edge and adjusters, or offset it the correct amount

- set switch to correct spindle rotation

- perform a test cut, adjust as necessary

I'm sure this looks very similar to a router table adjustment and would take approximately the same time. You have to change bits, adjust the height and the fence and make a test cut.

Shapers can also run bearings on cutters for template or curve work, just like a router.

Now here's the differences

Shaper

- no sag table

- quiet, powerful

- reversible spindle rotation so you can flip cutters for profiles, or grain or feed directions.

- mount bearing on top or under the cutter at your choice, and even put it in between stacked cutters

- use a power feeder, and climb cut with a feeder

- use it to cut an edge profile and dimension the piece using an outboard fence and a feeder. (Make rail/stile profiles and machine the stile/rail to final width, no need to perform an extra step in the planer).

- custom HSS knives can be ground by the user, or a tooling shop for special profiles.

So I guess Scott, my answer is I don't own a router or table and don't miss having one.

Regards, Rod.

[David DeCristoforo]

Neither. Those are for sissies. Real men use these:

http://rhaffner.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/shop1.jpg

[Rod Sheridan]

Neither. Those are for sissies. Real men use these:

http://rhaffner.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/shop1.jpg


I was afraid of that, I only own two molding planes.:eek:

regards, Rod.

[scott vroom]

Rod, thanks for the comprehensive answer. You mentioned "changing a router bit" on the shaper. Are there limits on which router bits can be used on the shaper? Have you found any problems running router bits on the shapper at only 10K RPM?

Thanks-
Scott

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Scott, I've used router bits down to about 1/2" diameter.

I have very few router bits, however recently I borrowed a rail and stile set and it worked just fine.

Regards, Rod.