Review: Festool's New TDK Drill/Drivers

[Jim Becker]

Thanks to Bob Marino, I had the opportunity to test drive Festool's new TDK drill/drivers which are the follow-on to their TDD product. Available in both a 12v and 15.6v version, the company has produced a great product set that is a step above almost anything else on the market--something that folks will certainly expect from Festool.

http://sawsndust.com/images/reviews/Festool-TDK-compare.jpg

Both versions are well made, comfortable in the hand, well-balanced and come in the expected Systainer. As you can see, there are only minor differences in size, most notable in the width of the battery pack on the 15.6v unit. They weigh in at 4.4 and 5 lbs, respectively. In addition to the standard single-hand operation chuck, they both come with Festool's Centrotec chuck for use with drivers and other quick-change accessories. The company claims that this reduces the weight of the drill/drivers by nearly a half pound which should be pleasing when you are driving lots of screws overhead, etc. My only issue with this system is that it will not accept "standard" quick-change driver bits without use of an adapter...they are slightly too big, undoubtely due to metric/inch differences. Festool also offers several other chuck options, including a right angle version and an offset version for getting in close to objects. These all snap on and off merely by pressing a quick release ring. That system works beautifully!

http://sawsndust.com/images/reviews/Festool-TDK-Dewalt-compare2.jpg

Height-wise, the TDK drill/drivers are about the same as my Dewalt 14.4v XRP as shown here and with the Centrotec chuck in use, the length is noticably shorter. But where you really gain some advantage when working in tight spaces is with drivers inserted directly into the chuck attachment point. Check out the difference here...

http://sawsndust.com/images/reviews/Festool-TDK-Dewalt-compare1.jpg

Both drills perform as advertised with two speed ranges, forward/reverse switches where you expect them and a very good clutch system to avoid over driving. There is a noticable difference in the torque with the 15.6v version, however...hit the gas and it will twist your hand. The 12v unit was mild in comparison. To that end, if you buy the TDD as a second drill/driver when you have a high power unit already available, by all means the 12v version will be a good choice and will save you $50. For an "only drill/driver" situation or when you know you'll want the extra power, choose the 15.6v tool.

Lastly, these drill/drivers are not inexpensive and you can get a lot of utility out of the more common brands/models available with a lower investment. But I have to say that Festool has kept to their "system" philosophy with these tools and added a huge amount of versatility in the process. For some folks, this will definitely make the investment more comfortable. With multiple, quick-change chuck styles available, compact design and high quality, these Festool drill/drivers are exactly what you'd expect from the company. They get an "all ten fingers" rating from me! (Hello, Santa?.......;) )

[John Miliunas]

Thanks for the review, Jim! :) Looks as though Festool is up to its usual standards! I've had the "older" 12v for a number of months now and, even though it's in a "stable" of 4 cordless drills, it's the one I pick up first! :) Pricier, but worth in the long run, which may even turn out to be the better deal! :cool:

[Jack Diemer]

So Jim, worth the money? My favorite tool in the shop in my 12V XRP drill. Is it worth two to three times the price.

[Dennis Peacock]

Excellent review Jim. Thanks for posting and taking the time to review and post pics. Now you can use those on getting that bay window put in.!! :p :D

[Frank Pellow]

Thanks for the review Jim. I paticularly like the fact that you included pictures and that you lined the drill up against the DeWalt in those pictures.

Your review reinforces my deision to make the TDK 12 volt drill my first battery operated tool (and, I add that I thought untill very recently that I would never purchase a battery operated tool). I have not bought the drill yet but hope to do so in November.

[Tim Morton]

I was wondering if any of you "festool fools" saw the new "ask this old house" last week? The opening scene had the festool screw gun in it, and then later in the show they did a segment on drill bits using the festool drill....looked like a nice tool. :cool:

[Jack Hogoboom]

ANOTHER Festool Rave???!!!!! I can't stand it!!!! How am I supposed to convince my wife that I need a $300 drill????? But now that I know it's out there, I have to have one. :)

[Jim Becker]

I was wondering if any of you "festool fools" saw the new "ask this old house" last week? The opening scene had the festool screw gun in it, and then later in the show they did a segment on drill bits using the festool drill....looked like a nice tool. Tom Silva is a convert to Festool compliments of our own Uncle Bob. You'll see something Festool in his hand in nearly every issue of This Old House Magazine, too...the current issue shows him with a really dirty CDD drill/driver. Speaking of drill bits...the ones in the Systainers are about the best quality quick-change bits I've ever seen. They exude quality...I kid you not.


Now you can use those on getting that bay window put in.!!Windows have been in for awhile. Pella just has to show up on Monday as prommised to finish up a bunch of "little things" on the exterior that are flashing related, etc.


So Jim, worth the money? My favorite tool in the shop in my 12V XRP drill. Is it worth two to three times the price.Excellent question, Jack. For many folks, especially when they just want a basic drill/driver, no. But if you feel you can benefit from the versatility that the Festool offers with the interchangable chucks, etc., as well as more compact design, yes. The three year warranty isn't horrible thing, either, especially if you are a pro or a near-pro. They also have a 30 day return policy if you find it just isn't what you want or expect. Seriously, when I'm ready to retire my "other" drill/driver (an old PC 14.4), the Festool is likely to be the replacement despite the cost. It's the most comfortable one I've had in my hand...even better than the Dewalt which I love.

[Charles McKinley]

Hi Jack.

$300? I think that you will need to save a few more pennies. I think the older version was more than that. Jim what is the MSRP on these?

[Jim Becker]

Jim what is the MSRP on these?
Not inexpensive...but they do have those nice multi-tool discounts! :)

TDK 15.6 CE $375
TDK 12 CE $325
TDK 12 CE Set $435 (includes right angle and eccentric chucks, too)

All include both the regular single-hand chuck, Centrotec quick-change chuck, 4mm wood bit, phillips driver and bit holder in addition to a second battery and the charger in a Systainer.

[Bart Leetch]

Great review Jim....thanks.

Drool Drool Drool oh darn I just rusted up the chuck on both of my Makita 9.6 drills & all my pipe clamps. Now I'll have to buy 2 Festool drills & a bunch of Bessy clamps.... Whats that Dear ....oh I should get out the WD40 & wipe the rust off along with the grin on my face darn.

Naw just kidding around I have had both drills for a number of years & can't seem to kill them. They work just fine for the work I do. I wouldn't build a deck with them but even on their second set of batteries the will still break screws if I'm not carefully. I have the 2 speed & the 2 speed variable speed. I purchased the 2 speed for $50 brand new at a garage sale. So I am still ahead as far as cost of the batteries. As far as pipe clamps...well you already know, Jim. :D

[Jim Becker]

Uncle Bob just called, ostensibly to let me know he's on his way over, but more importantly to let me know there are promo prices available on the new TDK drills and sets...here they are:

TDK 12 CE $275
TDK 12CE Set $375
TDK 15.6 CE $325

These prices are in effect through 30 November, so if you really want one of these, this month and next is the time to buy. (Frank!!) Also, there is free shipping on all tools through 31 December.

I'm also going to add one more comment. The drill/drivers were the one product set in the Festool line that I wasn't terribly interested in (other than the planer for which I have no application in my work, although it's incredible for what it does). That changed after working with these drill/drivers. Now, I want one. Sheesh! (Touching is DANGEROUS!)

[Frank Pellow]

..

These prices are in effect through 30 November, so if you really want one of these, this month and next is the time to buy. (Frank!!) Also, there is free shipping on all tools through 31 December.


Yes, Jim I am very aware of the deal and the deadline. :D

However, the free shipping does not apply to Canada :mad: Shipping to Canada is double in "normal" times :( so you would think that Festool could at least cut it in half for this deal. :mad:

[Christian Aufreiter]

Hi Jim,

thanks for this nice review.
I'd like to point out that the eccentric and the right angle chuck are an excellent addition to the Festool drill. Apart from the fact that they are unique (I think Panasonic offered a eccentric drill some while back) they are extremely handy at difficult operations such as drilling and driving in tight spots.
For those who are contemplating a Festool drill I can only recommend to get the package which includes both chucks if you don't feel the need for 15.6 V power.

I can't wait to see some pics of the Festool demo!

Regards,

Christian (who uses his dad's 12 V CDD drill and both chucks for about two years now) :D

[Steve Evans]

Shipping to Canada is double in "normal" times :( so you would think that Festool could at least cut it in half for this deal. :mad:

Frank

We need to get a group buy together for Canada, and arrange for some more reasonable shipping than UPS ground. My Festool order had an extra $75 in brokerage fees tacked on courtesy of UPS. That's not duty or taxes, just brokerage fees. On Ebay I won't deal with anyone that ships UPS ground.
Can't you order Festool through Woodcraft. If so maybe we could get it shipped to Woodcraft in Buffalo, and somebody could pick it up there. Anyone else from S. Ontario interested in a Festool buy?

[John Renzetti]

Hi Jim, Wow, I'm still surprised that you didn't notice that the 12v version was missing right after I left your place today.
that was a lot of fun. But check Grumbine for the missing drill I'm sure he has it.
take care,
John
PS Why was there a tupperware container in the back of my van-you still trying to unload that stuff.

[Jim Becker]

Johh, he who leaves early misses out on the free tools...(just kidding of course)

[Frank Pellow]

Frank

We need to get a group buy together for Canada, and arrange for some more reasonable shipping than UPS ground. My Festool order had an extra $75 in brokerage fees tacked on courtesy of UPS. That's not duty or taxes, just brokerage fees. On Ebay I won't deal with anyone that ships UPS ground.
Can't you order Festool through Woodcraft. If so maybe we could get it shipped to Woodcraft in Buffalo, and somebody could pick it up there. Anyone else from S. Ontario interested in a Festool buy?

Steve are you certain of your facts?

I was under the impression that anyone bringing the tools into Canada would have to pay the brokerage/duty fees. I was told by someone (not someone from UPS) that UPS was just collecting the fees on behalf of some bureaucracy. One person in British Columbia the I corresponded with who did not have their Festool order shipped via UPS found that she had to go to Customs to pick up her tools.

I would certainly be wiling to drive to Buffalo and pick up an order if I could save some money (legally).

[Steve Evans]

Frank

100% sure. I have tools shipped all the time.Via USPS/Canada Post, Fedex Ground and Air and UPS Ground and Air. UPS is the only one who charges the brokerage fees. These fees are simply for doing the paperwork. If you live close to the point of entry for the shipping company you can request to do the clearing yourself and thus save the brokerage charges. Unfortunately UPS ground comes in at Fort Erie which means you lose at least a half day to clear them yourself. You still have to pay any duties and taxes.Personally I feel that Ups's brokerage charges are a rip-off. If you bring the tools back across the border yourself you'll just have to pay the applicable duties and taxes. Nothing shady here. :cool: If you're reading this Bob, what do you think, any shipping points in Buffalo that you could use for a group buy.

Steve

[Chris Padilla]

Guys,

Most of you know that I am rehabing the garage. I happen to have th CDD-12 Festool drill with both eccentric and right-angle attachments. The CDD-12 is even more compact than the TDD-12.

Anyway, I've used the right-angle attachment A LOT for drilling holes in studs to run wiring and plumbing. I've gotten the battery HOT, HOT, HOT but the darn thing keeps plugging along. The batteries charge up fast (once cooled) and so far are keeping up with me. As a comparison, my Craftsman 14.4EX drill batteries are starting to die on me. They don't hold even half the charge they used to and this drill can't be more than a year old. 3 or 4 1 1/8" hole in a stud and the battery is done.

I've used the Craftsman and Festool pretty much interchangeably and I cannot detect any charge loss in the Festool. Did I mention I've gotten the Festo hot, hot, hot?? :D :D

You pay dearly for these tools but you will love them and they will last.

[Rich Konopka]

Guys,

Most of you know that I am rehabing the garage. I happen to have th CDD-12 Festool drill with both eccentric and right-angle attachments. The CDD-12 is even more compact than the TDD-12.

Anyway, I've used the right-angle attachment A LOT for drilling holes in studs to run wiring and plumbing. I've gotten the battery HOT, HOT, HOT but the darn thing keeps plugging along. The batteries charge up fast (once cooled) and so far are keeping up with me. As a comparison, my Craftsman 14.4EX drill batteries are starting to die on me. They don't hold even half the charge they used to and this drill can't be more than a year old. 3 or 4 1 1/8" hole in a stud and the battery is done.

I've used the Craftsman and Festool pretty much interchangeably and I cannot detect any charge loss in the Festool. Did I mention I've gotten the Festo hot, hot, hot?? :D :D

You pay dearly for these tools but you will love them and they will last.

Okay, I'm about to stir the pot on this one.

I think you "Festool Fools" as somebody penned, are turning into purist. Comparing a Craftsman to a Festool?
:rolleyes:

There is only a $200 difference in price. Thats like comparing a Ford Escort to a Lexus.

Regardless, What value does the drill and the fancy container of the Festool have over a $199 Panasonic or Makita other than a bunch of overpriced gloats? :D
:confused: :confused: :confused:

BTW, Jim in all fairness you did state that you can get by with an inexpensive solution compared to the Festool.

[Jim Becker]

Regardless, What value does the drill and the fancy container of the Festool have over a $199 Panasonic or Makita other than a bunch of overpriced gloats?
The container doesn't matter to me as the drill/driver would never live in it, at least in my shop. But the interchangable parts (chucks) on the business end are the real key along with how they stand up to heavy work...the former being most of the reason why I'd buy. For basic drill driving, no question these are not the best value. But for ultimate versatility, yes, they are, IMHO.

[Rich Konopka]

But the interchangable parts (chucks) on the business end are the real key along with how they stand up to heavy work...the former being most of the reason why I'd buy.

Okay, Interchangable chucks??? enlighten me. Are you referring to a right angle attachment?

I'm sure the Festool quality is impeccable and I appreciate that. It make sense to invest wisely in the right tool up front even though it means paying more.

However, I sense that there are some subtle proprietary gotchas with their tools. Can their saws accept other blades? Does the hose for their vacum fit my PC sander? Is there a prorietary nature with their tools or is more because they are metric based??

Thanks

[Jim Becker]

Rich, most "incompatibilies" are metric/inch conversion things. The jigsaws take Bosch-style blades, although Festool has some sturdier ones available which are nice when you are cutting up to 4" thick material. The plunge saw does use a Festool blade, but they are reasonably priced...$37 for a blade that cuts nearly as well as a WW-II. Same tooth configuration as Forrest and Forrest can sharpen it later. Adapting a dust hose to non-Festool tools is not a big deal and once you use a Festool sander, you'll sell the PC. The patented dust pickup method is extraordinary and there is almost no vibration. No more numb hands after several hours (or minutes) of sanding.

Look, everyone has to evaluate these things for themselves. For many folks, these are not the right tools. For others, these are the only tools. Life is like that. What I do suggest is for you and the other Hartford-area woodworkers you know get together with Bob like we did here this past weekend so you can actually learn about and try out the tools with your own hands. Worse, case you'll enjoy the company and spend a lot of money. Best case, you'll enjoy the company and spend a lot of money. :D

[Chris Padilla]

Comparing a Craftsman to a Festool?
:rolleyes:

There is only a $200 difference in price. Thats like comparing a Ford Escort to a Lexus.
Quite true, Rich, but it the only comparison I can make because I literally had one in the left hand and one in the right while working. Perhaps it is worthless and not worth the effort to bring it to light here but it is the best I could do.

[Frank Pellow]

Jim did you get a chance to do any endurance or power tests on these drills against the competition? I expect that you did not have the drills in your possession long enough to conduct such tests.

I am thinking of tests of the sort that were done on 18 volt cordless drills for the 2004 Fine Homebuilding and Fine Woodworking Tool Guide. I can elaborate if you would like.

In his review at The Yahoo Festool Owners group, Matt Seeker did two such tests and included in these tests were both the Festool TDK drills as well as a Makita 14.4-volt drill (item no. 6336DWDE) and a DeWalt "Compact" 18-volt drill (item no. DC759KA).

There is some information at the Festool web site about the 15.6 volt driver where they say that: "TDK 15.6 with screwed 550 Spax 5 x 40 mm (a little more than 1.5 inches) into pine with a 3.0 NiMH battery pack." It would help if they said how the 12 volt did in the same test, but they do not.

[Jim Becker]

No, Frank. I did not do any "formal" testing...you are right...I only had them for a short period of time and I also wanted to play with the router...which I did. Paul had them yesterday and I suspect he was crying when Bob picked everything up today! hee hee

[Brian Buckley]

I received my 12 Volt TDK drill yesterday. I am impressed with the small size and the light weight. The Concendric (SP???) chuck is super. It is easier to go back and forth between drill bit and driver bit than useing a "Jackrabit:. I hope Festool USA is going to carry the various bits shown on the inside of the systainer. I will let you know about battery life after I have used it some more.

[Jim Becker]

I hope Festool USA is going to carry the various bits shown on the inside of the systainer.
Strangely enough...square drive/Robertson is missing from their lineup. I gotta slap them up-side their head on that one since that's all I use. They are available from other vendors, however, and will fit in the adapters.

[Gary Max]

Here is one of the things I really liked. Three year warranty.
Where eles are you going to find that??
I do agree with the thought--- they cost big money.
I only have a sander it is a 150-3 and it does a outstanding job---I wish that I had bought the vac at the same time.

[Paul B. Cresti]

Jim,
yes i was crying when they all went away. I tried to tie up Bob, but he just would not stay still! :D Today I "invested in few more items" though. Rich and all you nay sayers, lets keep our posts a little more benign. I love my work and my tools. You use a stick and I use a branch and thats that.

[Rich Konopka]

Jim,
yes i was crying when they all went away. I tried to tie up Bob, but he just would not stay still! :D Today I "invested in few more items" though. Rich and all you nay sayers, lets keep our posts a little more benign. I love my work and my tools. You use a stick and I use a branch and thats that.

Paul:

I'm trying to determine what it is about Festool that warrants all of the gloats that are posted on SMC. If people were benign with thier Festool gloats I probably would never have incited this thread. I never intended to knock Festool owners but just understand what it is about Festool that commands such lofty prices.

Does this make me a Festool pariah? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Paul B. Cresti]

Rich,
I do not understand gloats either. I do not take part in them unless it is poking fun at some one (like i did with chris padilla). I would assume gloats are just a bunch of guys/girls talking about tools and that is as far as it goes. What is worth it to me may not be to you and that is perfectly OK.

[Frank Pellow]

Strangely enough...square drive/Robertson is missing from their lineup. I gotta slap them up-side their head on that one since that's all I use. They are available from other vendors, however, and will fit in the adapters.

It says on the Festool USA web site that square drive (Robertson) bits will be comming soon. Thats also the only kind of screws that I (voluntarily) use.

[Chris Padilla]

Rich,

You need to try out a couple Festool power tools. Like your Lexus vs. Escort comparison: The Escort may be a wonderful car to you but if you never sit in and drive a Lexus, you'll never know what you are missing--and that may be perfectly fine, too! If you like, up the scale from Lexus to Ferrari. I have seen Ferraris but I've never touched one...probably never will.

You have a lot of folks all over the good ole US of A positively gu$hing about these power tools...it must be more than fluff and fancy marketing. Yeah, okay, I've gotten a free t-shirt, coffee mug, and a hand sander as "thank you" gifts from Mr. Marino but even if I hadn't, these are still wonderful tools.

I have a 150/5 sander (soon up for sale) and just picked up the Rotex sander. I also have the CT-11e vacuum (no longer made, I think). I would like to get the barrel-grip jigsaw and I think that will probably be it. I have plenty of routers and my Skil worm-drive saw is just fine and the EZ guide is fine. I may look at one more sander after the 150/5 is sold but I'm not sure yet...I need to give the Rotex some ample time. So There! ;)

[Jim Becker]

Chris, don't forget that the Rotex is pretty much a "two handed" tool and as such, doesn't take the place of the 150/5. If you have a 150/3 or 125, than no issue, but I don't feel that the Rotex is good as an "only sander". (I have the 150/3 and Rotex and find them to be complimentary)

[Chris Padilla]

Jim, as I said, I need to put in time with the Rotex to determine if a complimentary sander is required. I already have decent time in with the 150/5 and it does quite well on its own.

[Jim Becker]

I understand, Chris. I only wanted to generally point out that the Rotex might be uncomfortable to use when you either need to have one hand available to hold your material or when you need to get into closer quarters. I also didn't know if you had other sanders...

[Rich Konopka]

Rich,

You need to try out a couple Festool power tools. Like your Lexus vs. Escort comparison: The Escort may be a wonderful car to you but if you never sit in and drive a Lexus, you'll never know what you are missing--and that may be perfectly fine, too! If you like, up the scale from Lexus to Ferrari. I have seen Ferraris but I've never touched one...probably never will.

You have a lot of folks all over the good ole US of A positively gu$hing about these power tools...it must be more than fluff and fancy marketing. Yeah, okay, I've gotten a free t-shirt, coffee mug, and a hand sander as "thank you" gifts from Mr. Marino but even if I hadn't, these are still wonderful tools.

I have a 150/5 sander (soon up for sale) and just picked up the Rotex sander. I also have the CT-11e vacuum (no longer made, I think). I would like to get the barrel-grip jigsaw and I think that will probably be it. I have plenty of routers and my Skil worm-drive saw is just fine and the EZ guide is fine. I may look at one more sander after the 150/5 is sold but I'm not sure yet...I need to give the Rotex some ample time. So There! ;)


I agree Chris. I actually almost purchased a Rotex and a CT33 a month or two ago and held off. I already had a vac (cheapo rigid) and I picked up a cheap PC sander. It worked out okay with some mickey mousing. It was for my bookcase that I can't seem to finish. It was very loud and did not pick up all of the dust. This is of huge concern for me because I have asthma.

What concerns me is laying out $750 bucks for something that may not be that much better. There are tons of creekers who swear by their Festools and I respect that. It just seem like there is too much of a frenzy over Festool and I don't succumb to those kind of things to easily. On the other hand I appreciate quality and service. I Love Lee Valley and my Mini Max. I'm not adverse to investing the dollars for the right tools.

My other questions is do I need the vacum at all? Can I just do with a sander and hook it up to a DC? or my cheapo rigid? How does it work with a DC?

I understand that someone such as Todd Burch who works on site at a customer needs portability. I'm a cellar dweller and realtively new to all of this high end equipment. There is so much to this stuff it's mind boggling.

Thanks again and I hope you don't take my challenges to Festool as a knock on your decision. It is knot ( ;) ) meant to be. I'm just trying to get a healthy debate on the justification to Festools pricing/quality/performance.
I do want the best and I already have made past mistakes when buying equipment (Delta CS) and I do not want to make em again.

[Jim Becker]

This is of huge concern for me because I have asthma.

What concerns me is laying out $750 bucks for something that may not be that much better.
Rich...you have to experience it to truly know how effective it is. Two suggestions, the first being have Bob come up and demo the stuff for you, Rob, Dave and the other folks in your area. If that's not practical...order it and use it in your own shop. There is a 30 day "no questions asked" return policy.


My other questions is do I need the vacum at all? Can I just do with a sander and hook it up to a DC? or my cheapo rigid? How does it work with a DC?
Generally, dust extraction from small tools is not done well by dust collectors due to the way they work. The principle behind woodworking dust collectors is based on moving a lot of air at low pressure. The moving air is what moves the dust and chips. In order to do that, you need a large area that the air can fit into...hose/duct/hood...they all contribute. Small, hand-held electrics have very small ports/hoods for dust extraction. Therefore, you need to use a system that performs well with small amounts of air and the higher pressures that you get with small ports and hose. Your current vac will work better than a DC for that, albeit with uncomfortable noice levels and probably inadequate filtration. The CT vacs were designed for the purpose of dust extraction and do so quietly, with great filtration and with variable speed that allows you to use the right amount of vac for the sander and paper you are using. Further, they have the electronic switching system that turns the vac on with the tool and turns it off with a delay when you cut power to the tool...insuring that dust already in the stream is safely captured. That's important for both cleanliness and heath reasons.

Seriously, find a way to evaluate the claims personally. I was sceptical myself until Bob visited last November. And while I needed to wait until recently to pick up my sanders and vac due to other priorities, I knew after using them last year I would eventually have them in my shop. (I wish communications gear could "self-sell" like Festool does...)

[Chris Padilla]

Rich,

All fair questions. I think ANY vacuum that can be conveniently mated to the Festool sander should work just fine. For me, my Ridgid screamer of a shop vac is just too bloody noisy and the hose too stiff for comfortable sanding. Believe me, with my Makita ROS and my Ridgid sander, I did do the loud, difficult to use sanding/DC for quite a while. It worked pretty good but was painful at time.

The Festool sander and vacuum was world's apart. Was it X dollars world apart? Tough to say but I am happy and the Ridgid and Makita are now used for other duties and thankfully those duties are few and far between.

For someone with lung issues, I won't even hesitate to tell you that you will simply not believe how effective the DC is on the Festool sander. Sanding in the living room is NO JOKE...it is that good. Do you NEED the Festool vacuum? I dunno...I would say probably not. I think the Festool sanders are simply set up very, very well for dust collection...doesn't matter what is providing the suction/vacuum.

On the other hand, the higher priced Festool and Fein vacuums are quieter and that is, literally, music to my ears.

John Lucas over at Woodshopdemos got in early with Festool-itis...believe it or not, much to my consternation! I even blasted him with a couple emails asking him to please use more "normal" tools for some of his write-ups. I was getting tired of the expensive Festools he kept using because "there was no way in hell I was EVER gonna pay that kind of outrageous money" for a Festool power tool. I later sent him an email of apology with my tail firmly between my legs and filling up my mouth.... :D

[Chris Padilla]

Jim has a good point about filtration but you can get decent HEPA filters for your Ridgid, too. Still, it'll scream no matter what you do.

Send Bob Marino a PM and see if he can hook you up with a demo...I think that is the best thing for your pragmatic approach.

[Jerry Golick]

Steve are you certain of your facts?

I was under the impression that anyone bringing the tools into Canada would have to pay the brokerage/duty fees. I was told by someone (not someone from UPS) that UPS was just collecting the fees on behalf of some bureaucracy. One person in British Columbia the I corresponded with who did not have their Festool order shipped via UPS found that she had to go to Customs to pick up her tools.

I would certainly be wiling to drive to Buffalo and pick up an order if I could save some money (legally).
Frank/Steve:

I travel to the States fairly often and I have arranged for Festool to ship to my US destination and then brought the stuff accross the border myself. I have saved a bundle doing so. Both on the brokerage fees and duties. At a minimum you get about a $200 deductible, and if I stay out of the country for a week it goes up to about $750 or so. When I bring the stuff in via UPS direct from Festool the landed price is about doubled.

As far as I am concerned UPS is a numero-uno ripoff when it comes to brokerage fees. I don't like using them at all.

[Frank Pellow]

Frank/Steve:

I travel to the States fairly often and I have arranged for Festool to ship to my US destination and then brought the stuff accross the border myself. I have saved a bundle doing so. Both on the brokerage fees and duties. At a minimum you get about a $200 deductible, and if I stay out of the country for a week it goes up to about $750 or so. When I bring the stuff in via UPS direct from Festool the landed price is about doubled.

As far as I am concerned UPS is a numero-uno ripoff when it comes to brokerage fees. I don't like using them at all.

I expect that you have already paid state sales tax at your USA destination.
Do you have to pay GST and/or PST in addition whenyou bring the tools into Canada?

[Chris Padilla]

Can't you guys just sneak 'em in?? Put a false gas tank in and fill the sucker up with Festool!!! ;) After all, this isn't a car coming from Mexico into the US...it is Canada..."...it is like going into Wisconsin...*" ;)

:D

*--name the movie that quote is from. :)

[Jerry Golick]

I expect that you have already paid state sales tax at your USA destination.
Do you have to pay GST and/or PST in addition whenyou bring the tools into Canada?
Hi Frank,

Yes, and that can add a bit to the price. But its worth it as far as I am concerned.

For example, when I brought in the combo order (ATF-55 and CT-22) I was out of the country for seven days. I brought my invoice to Canadian customs. The subtracted my $750 deductible and I had to pay GST, but not PST, on the balance. I ended up owing the Canadian govenment about $40 by the time I was done.

But even if I had to pay GST on the full amount I would still be ahead of the game, not having to pay the outlandish "brokerage fees" charged by UPS. When you bring it across the border yourself, you are your own broker. No matter how you slice it you save. BTW - you also save on shipping charges as well, since the UPS charge into the states is less than into Canada.

Of course, you do need a US address to ship to.