Dove-tails and drawer side material

[Glen Butler]

The better cabinet shops in the area dovetail their drawer boxes. According to my supplier, to most widely used material for drawer sides is 1/2" baltic birch.

I would like to use baltic birch for my drawer boxes, but more importantly they need to be dovetailed. Single pass half blind is fine for the dovetails, but is there a way to limit the tear out of the veneers?

Additionally, would a top notch cabinet company use hardwood drawer sides and do through dovetails instead?

[Jamie Buxton]

Dovetails in plywood drawer sides are difficult, either with a router or by hand. The face veneer often chips out. Home-shop builders have various tricks to try to overcome the problem, but I never found one that works all the time. Having one that works most of the time leads to very bad words on the ones that fail. A big shop may have machinery that works in plywood, and is not affordable for a home shop. My solution for dovetails is to only use solid lumber for the drawer sides. If I'm building plywood drawer sides, I use a different joint -- a lock rabbet.

[Mike Heidrick]

Very timely question. I did two boxes tonight in 1/2" Baltic birch and all four corners dovetailed. I had to back it up/use a backer board on the sides. I use a omnijig but any DT jig could do the same thing. Just set the front clamp to accept the thickness of the side plus another backer piece (I just used scrap ply from the drawer cuts - just make sure it is tall enough to be held down by the DT clamp). The cut is the same and the settings are the same otherwise.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/BloomingtonMike/lfright.jpg

[Rick Fisher]

Nice job Mike ..

I like Maple for smaller drawers..

[Joe Leigh]

I use different woods for drawer sides but always solid wood. Most will say use hardwoods like maple for drawer sides but I don't necessarily agree. It depends on the amount of use the drawer will get. I love the color contrast that mahogany gives me with a maple front even though its a softer wood. For occassional use like on an end table does it really matter that it's not as durable?
Besides, is 1/2" hardwood that much more expensive than a high quality baltic birch?

[Frank Drew]

I like hand-cut dovetails for furniture but I'm fine with machine-cut in BB for built-ins, etc.

I've never tried it, but Mike's suggestion to use a backer board is probably an ideal solution; I had decent results taking light passes, climb cutting where possible, but in any case I did find that most of the chipout occurred on the part of the tail that ends up hidden inside the joint.

[Lee Schierer]

My dovetail jig cuts both pieces for a corner in one set up. YMMV with jigs that cut tails and pins in separate set ups.

When using plywood of any kind for drawer sides that are dovetailed, Make a first pass using a climb cut to cut through the surface plys. Then cut the dove tails to depth from left to right. This will eliminate nearly all of the tear out.

Most of the time I use 1/2" yellow poplar since it is cheap. looks good, finishes well and is lighter weight than maple.

[Karl Brogger]

Additionally, would a top notch cabinet company use hardwood drawer sides and do through dovetails instead?

Yes on the hardwood, I don't see to many through dovetails

I used maple for quite a while and switched to birch. Maple is just too damn hard. Not a big deal if you've got a handful of drawers to make, but the extra hardness does add a fair amount of time when you've got 50+ drawers worth of parts sitting in front of you, both in machining time, and sanding. 99% of people can not tell the difference anyway. If the customer is looking for more of a contrast I'll also use cherry for drawer boxes as well.

Throw an inlay inbetween the pins looks nice as well.
http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs049.snc3/13662_1206698578843_1570037517_30538978_7321176_n. jpg

[John Morrison60]

While I have used BB for drawer sides, I think that solid wood looks
significantly better when dove tailed.
I have access to a stock of Ash, so it has become my wood of choice
for drawer sides.

Just be sure that you know how you will mount the drawers.
Many drawer glides limit you to 5/8 thick sides.
I tend to plane sides down to 9/16 thick. Seems to work a little better.

I used to use poplar exclusively for drawer casings.
It machines nicely and is lighter yet strong. I think it is close to ideal.

I have also settled on using the drawer lock miter joint on the rear of
drawer boxes. It is strong, easy to adjust, and quicker than dovetail.
I use that even when I dovetail the front joints.

Good luck
John

[Mike Heidrick]

Just to claify

Both the sides and front/back were cut at the same time as many dovetail 1/2 blind jigs can do.

I tried:
climb cutting
tapeing
clibm cutting on taped pieces
different speeds of motion
new bit

Nothing worked on this Menards baltic birch (not as nice as other BB from say woodcraft).

Backed it up and it worked perfect.

[Glen Butler]

Just to claify

Both the sides and front/back were cut at the same time as many dovetail 1/2 blind jigs can do.

I tried:
climb cutting
tapeing
clibm cutting on taped pieces
different speeds of motion
new bit

Nothing worked on this Menards baltic birch (not as nice as other BB from say woodcraft).

Backed it up and it worked perfect.

Mike,

When you cut single pass half blind they are automatically back up because you route both pieces at the same time. The area I am most concerned about it the part to the left edge of the omnijig where the two pieces are offset to each other. How did you back that up?

[Glen Butler]

I will probably swith to using hardwood drawer sides.

I have seen three options thus far. Poplar, birch, maple . . . and I guess I could use cherry. I can pick up rustic cherry for 1.86/ft. Just a little more than poplar and will match my cabinet doors which are rustic cherry also.

Would it be stupid then to just make the drawer boxes out of the same material that the doors and drawer fronts are made of? Hickory for hickory, walnut for walnut, etc. Except with BB ply bottoms?

[Glen Butler]

Just be sure that you know how you will mount the drawers.
Many drawer glides limit you to 5/8 thick sides.
I tend to plane sides down to 9/16 thick. Seems to work a little better.


When will a drawer glide limit you to 5/8 thickness? And limit you which direction? As in you can't go bigger or can't go smaller?

[Jamie Buxton]

When will a drawer glide limit you to 5/8 thickness? And limit you which direction? As in you can't go bigger or can't go smaller?

The undermount slides like the Blum Tandem and its ilk have some limits about the drawer side thickness. Read those specs for a detailed explanation.

[Mike Heidrick]

Mike,

When you cut single pass half blind they are automatically back up because you route both pieces at the same time. The area I am most concerned about it the part to the left edge of the omnijig where the two pieces are offset to each other. How did you back that up?

The piece that chips out for me in single pass half bling DTs is the front edge of the sides (mounts vertically on jig). Scoring the sides with a climb cut usually prevents this but not this time for me.

I do not have issues with chip out on the fronts or backs (mounted on top/horizontally on the jig). That offset was not an issue for me and was not backed up. You are right that the rest of that cut is backed up.

[Steve Griffin]

I will probably swith to using hardwood drawer sides.

I have seen three options thus far. Poplar, birch, maple . . . and I guess I could use cherry. I can pick up rustic cherry for 1.86/ft. Just a little more than poplar and will match my cabinet doors which are rustic cherry also.

Would it be stupid then to just make the drawer boxes out of the same material that the doors and drawer fronts are made of? Hickory for hickory, walnut for walnut, etc. Except with BB ply bottoms?

Hi Glen,
Another option is soft maple or paint grade maple.

To answer your questions--rustic cherry does price out nice at first look, but remember you will lose some to firewood, and you will be dodging and fighting knots, and it can often be too narrow without glueing up.

Sure, you can use the same wood for drawer boxes as the faces. But hickory is hard on you and your tools and is unforgiving with fitting. Walnut is wonderful to dovetail--I just did some last week--but can cost 3 times that of poplar/soft maple options.

My latest favorite for non-furniture grade stuff is soft maple and cherry ply or jatoba bottoms.

-Steve

[Fred Floyd]

I make my drawer boxes for built-ins out of poplar. I cut half-blind dovetails at all four corners with a Leigh D4.

Poplar isn't too expensive -- usually about $2.00/bf. It mills easily and takes paint well if you are inclined. Best part is that poplar doesn't have a lot of knots.

As far as drawer guides, I have always used the heavy duty 100-lb full extension slides for built-ins. Furniture, I prefer to use wooden slides.

I am doing my kitchen this spring and I'm looking at the fancy soft-close like the blu-motion from Blum.

[Glen Butler]

Hmm . . . After doing a little more research I can't justify the cost of anything but baltic birch at $1.00 per foot with little waste and material handling time. If I can't successfully score the veneer where tearout occurs at the left edge I will consider poplar for but that is almost twice the cost at ~$1.79, with considerably more machine time.

What are your opinions for what to use on drawer bottoms if doing hardwood sides?

[Doug Carpenter]

Glen,

Here in Cleveland we have plywood supply houses that supply the cabinet, countertop and furniture industry. It is Called Distributor Service Inc. I know they are national so you might be able to find them or someting like it. Any whoo the have drawer box material. It is sold in 8' lengths. It is 1/2" thick and prefinished. It is a plywood core and edgebanded on the top. It is a good choice for a cabinet grade drawer box.
They come in widths 4,6,8 and 12 inches. and cost about $ 9.75 to 20 a piece depending on size.

It sounds like you might be looking for somthing nicer but I thought it might be worth mentioning.

You may already know all of this anyway.

I have a lower grade dovetail jig I've had for 13 years and I've spent less that two hours playing with it. It is on my list of thing to do! I suspect I will need a nicer on as soon as I use it.

[Karl Brogger]

Mike,

When you cut single pass half blind they are automatically back up because you route both pieces at the same time. The area I am most concerned about it the part to the left edge of the omnijig where the two pieces are offset to each other. How did you back that up?


You don't use a backer, just rip the piece's wide. I use the centers on the jig to determine drawer heights, then rip a 1/4" off of both edges.

[Glen Butler]

You don't use a backer, just rip the piece's wide. I use the centers on the jig to determine drawer heights, then rip a 1/4" off of both edges.

Nice, you just pressed the easy button. Thank you.

[Mike Heidrick]

Glen, let me know if the sides (front face mounted piece) chip out for you. I may try another new bit.

[Jim Becker]

Careful use of backers and a light climb cut across the face before diving in will help minimize tear out in the BB ply, but not completely eliminate it. 'Nature of the beast. For this reason, I prefer to use "soft" maple and poplar for my dovetailed drawers, whether I'm making them myself or ordering them knock down from a supplier for a larger project.

[John Piwaron]

I'm assuming, perhaps wrongly, that you're making something for yourself. A hobbyist.

If that's so, use solid wood. It looks better and cuts nicer.

I've come to the conclusion that since I'm making Shaker style things for myself, and Shakers didn't have plywood to use, that I'd go a bit farther than most and use hard maple for drawers *and* a solid hard maple bottom. 1/2" thick and beveled to fit into a 1/4" groove open at the back of the drawer. Grain arranged so the usual expansion/contraction of a solid panel goes to the back of the drawer.

I know most people don't notice such things. But I do and I'm more satisfied with the finished project at the end.