Belt / Disc Sander combo question

[Doug Carpenter]

I am going to purchase a 6 by 48 belt disc sander machine soon. I am wondering who has what kind and what are the pros and cons of each machine.

I already own a delta 12" disc sander so The disc size on the combo machine doesn't really matter except that having another 12" would save on the number of different discs I have to keep around.

The belt situation is a whole different animal. I would prefer the machine have it's own stand open or closed I'm not sure.

The belt definately should be useable at any angle. And most importantly the gaurd must be removable. I will need to use the top portion of the belt at the wheel.

I notice the grizzly models come in two different speeds and I not sure which would be better. But I don't see a stand but I assume they make one. And it looks to me like the gaurd doesn't come off.

I like the looks of the powermatic because the gaurd flips off real easy but Is a PW worth the cost these days?

There is also a huge price difference; seems like the grizzly machines are like $600 and the PW is like $1300 With that difference I could buy two grizzly machines.

Can anyone help?

Thanks, Doug

[mark kosse]

Doug, I don't know how much help I will be but I can tell you this. I used to have a shopfox 6X48X9" disc but I didn't care for it at all. Had lots of tracking issues with the belt and never could get it right. I'm usually a grizzly fan but I'd want to here from someone who has griz to ok it before I'd buy one. I'm under the impression shopfox/grizzly are one in the same. Maybe someone knows better than me. Any chance of waiting for a delta/rockwell used? As bad as that shopfox was I'd go with the 200.00 HF one before I'd buy it again.

Hope it helps.

[mark kosse]

Upon further review the grizzly 6X48X12 isn't like the shopfox at all. It may be OK. Have you looked at the HF 6X48X12 HD (40643). Looks awful lot like the old Delta with those feet on the stand, and with a coupon could be had for 240.00. It's always a gamble with them. Some things are great and some suck.

[Jeff Nolan]

I have the Powermatic 31A, the retail on that machine is around $1,500 today.

It's a good machine, performs well and the belt tracks steady as she goes. The 12" disc does actually make a difference because you are only using less than half of the diameter so the delta between 10 and 12" is bigger than 2" in practical terms even though it's only 1" of usable disc. I know it sounds contradictory but having used both a 10" and 12", I noticed a pretty big diff.

Having said all that, I want to sell my machine and get an oscillating horizontal edge sander... if you are interested send me a private message.

[Doug Carpenter]

Mark,

Thanks for the input. I am not finding the 40643 model at Grizzly. Perhaps I misunderstood.

Jeff, I'll PM you.

[Jim Becker]

Doug, I have the Grizzly G1276 combo which has a lower speed. To-date, I've been pleased with it, although I don't use it much. (Shoulda bought an edge sander...I've never used the disk outside of one time when I didn't want to move the machine to get to the belt)

[Kevin Groenke]

We have an old Delta "sanding center": it may run more than any other machine in our shop. It has required quite a bit of attention over the years, but it's still kicking.

I participated in a test of a bunch of combo sanders a couple years ago and regrettably none of them were particularly good.

If you already have a 12" disc, you might consider an edge sander rather than a combo. bigger belt, less or same $, kinda a no-brainer. There are significant benefits to a 30" capacity vs the 12" or so on a 48" belt. The beveling feature of many edge sanders is also useful. Most of these also have tables at the end so you get the ~5" radius for curved work. With the table you can use that radius in a more controlled manner than on a combo machine (or freehand if you prefer)

We have a General Intl. Which has run care-free for 4 or 5 years.
General International 15-005M1 Edge Belt Sander (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002KHNLM0/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B002KHNLMU&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1JFS6A6GJ69R75D9Q0AB)

If I were buying today I would also look at:
Grizzly G0512 Edge Sander (http://grizzly.com/products/Edge-Sander-w-Wrap-Around-Table/G0512)
Jet OES-80CS:Oscillating Edge Sander (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=19813)
Laguna Platinum Oscillating Edge (http://www.lagunatools.com/s.nl/c.860860/it.A/id.7471/.f)
Shop Fox W1688 (http://www.utterguys.com/xcart/product.php?productid=33848&cat=0&page=1)

Oscillating is nice, but probably not a big deal for accasional use. Obviously, you can spend more if you want a bigger machine.

If you decide you want a combo, you might add the Delta 31-300 to your list of machines to consider.

g-luck

-kg

[Mike Cruz]

Just my 2 cents about the disc sander part....but having multiple 12" disc sanders really helps with not having to change discs. I have one with a medium grit and one with a fine grit.

[Gerry Werth]

Doug,
Wood magazine did a review a few months back, ok, years back, go to http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-tools/reviews/stationary-machines/beltdisc-sanders/
to read the review. The Delta and Craftsman were the best rated. But, I like Grizzly.

[Mike Reinholtz]

I have only owned one machine, so I can't compare it to anything but so far I really like the Rikon machine. I picked it up on sale at Woodcraft ($300?) and other than poor dust collection it works great, the tracking was easy to get straight and the belts are pretty quick to change. I have only used the disc once when I was too lazy to pick up the machine and get the belt more accessible (it's not mounted in my garage, sits under a bench till I need it). Dust collection got much better (although not fantastic) when I picked up a couple fittings from Rockler and used both the existing 2.5" port and a 4" hose on a 12" hood.

[Brian Kent]

I have and like the Grizzley 1014Z. $325 + shipping. Easy belt removal is important to me for box sanding through the grits.

Brian

[mreza Salav]

Have one of those combo machines (an old Rockwell 6x48/12").
Use the disks rarely and almost none the belt.
If you have the disk I'd suggest get an edge sander.
Much more useful machine.

[Lance Norris]

I have the Jet 6x48~9" disc. Its a very good machine. There are no tracking problems, dust collection is excellent, and I also removed the guard so I can sand on the nose of the belt. The belt tilts back to horizontal if you want that. I bought the open stand version because the closed stand of the same machine was much more expensive. I havent been disapointed. It sits solidly and is heavy enough not to rock when you are hogging lots of material. I would recommend this machine.

http://www.amazon.com/708596K-JSG-96OS-4-Horsepower-115-Volt-1-Phase/dp/B000063INV/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1261398401&sr=8-5

[Doug Carpenter]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I will research the models mentioned.

Dust collection is a must. I agree having mulitple Discs will be handy. Especially since the disc is used for grinding recoil pads and requires a jig that would sort of be in the way for other operations.

Since I will be making and or adjusting gunstocks the vertical belt is best suited for the job. The work is done free handed so all the gaurds and tables have to come off the belt portion.

I agree the edge sander would be more useful for regular woodworking but in this instance I am sure of my needs.

I really appreciate everyones input.

Doug

[Scott T Smith]

Doug, I have both of the Grizzly models - the slow speed 1276 and the high speed 1183, and both have worked acceptably. I use the slow speed model in my metal working shop to reduce the potential for overheating steel (such as when sharpening items).

Occasionall I have a tracking problem on the slow speed unit - usually it's because I don't use dust collection.

I don't think that the top guard is removable from either one of them, so that may negate their value for your need.

You're correct in that you need to purchase a separate stand for them. Grizzly sell's a Shop Fox unit that I've used for mine.

For gun stocks, you might want to consider Grizzly's G0563 or 4 Oscillating edge sander, and here is why.

1 - the longer belt surface area will allow you more versatility when sanding longer pieces.
2 - the guard opens up on the small end.
3 - it has an attachment for a non-oscillating spindle sander that goes on the small end.

It's a horizontal unit, so that may not fit in with your desire for holding yoru work vertically, but I thought that I'd toss it out for consideration. I have the 0564 model and have been very, very pleased with it. Seems to me that an oscillating spindle sander would be very beneficial for your needs.

Regards,

Scott

[Doug Carpenter]

Scott,

Thanks for answering the important question about the gaurds. That is vital info.

The machine you mentioned seems like a good possibility. It certainly looks versitile. You hit the nial on the head so to speak with the spindle sander option that looks like it might be useful. I guess it is a question of whether or not the table comes off and out of the way. And if I can manipulate my workpeice horizontally. Maybe the movement of the unit would be difficult to deal with if the table is removed.

I'm still not sure of my speed question though. There are times when you wouldn't want to heat up the existing finish. For example when making a pitch change to the gun so a slow speed would be nice. When working on an unfished stock it wouldn't matter.

Thanks again, Doug

[mark kosse]

Doug, it was a harbor freight #. Give it a look.

[Mike Cruz]

I purchase a used Grizzly belt/disc sander for $100 on CL. It works great and the only issue I have is that the motor is a 3450 rpm model. For woodworking, my understanding is that you should have the 1725 rpm. The 3450 is more suited for metal. So, I have a rougher sanding disc on the 12 disc to minimize burning of the wood. Fine sandpaper would burn the wood way too easily...especially on end grain.

[Scott T Smith]

Scott,

Thanks for answering the important question about the gaurds. That is vital info.

The machine you mentioned seems like a good possibility. It certainly looks versitile. You hit the nial on the head so to speak with the spindle sander option that looks like it might be useful. I guess it is a question of whether or not the table comes off and out of the way. And if I can manipulate my workpeice horizontally. Maybe the movement of the unit would be difficult to deal with if the table is removed.

I'm still not sure of my speed question though. There are times when you wouldn't want to heat up the existing finish. For example when making a pitch change to the gun so a slow speed would be nice. When working on an unfished stock it wouldn't matter.

Thanks again, Doug

Doug, I see no reason why the table could not be removed. Additionally, the sanding surface will tilt from horizontal to vertical, which also increases versatility.

I think that slower speed is better overall.

Something else that may be of interest is a drum/flap sander - that might be the best way to sand countoured curves (Grizzly G8749). The flap discs probably won't last as long as a belt though.

[Doug Carpenter]

Scott,

I agree the whole thing tilting might be nice as well. I wonder if the oscilating part can be turned off.

I'm afriad the flap might be to aggressive. A seperate drum sander wouldn't be all bad though.

I think the slow speed is the way to go.

The Stock maker I visited used a Jet 6 x 48 x 12 combo machine. I would swear that it was on a shortened open leg stand but I'm not sure. I watched him remove a large rollover comb and a $5000 custom stock in short order because the shooter had lost 180 pounds and his gun nolonger fit him. I was really impressed and hadn't thought of doing it that way.



Thanks, Doug

[Mike Cruz]

Yes, the drum sanders are great for contours. You could buy one with two drums, or you can make one with an extra motor you happen to have laying around...if you have an extra one laying around. That is what I did. Actually, I made a disc and drum station with two motors I had. The disc has a 220 1.5 HP motor, and the drum has a 110 3/4 HP motor. Quite simple to make and I could have done a lot more with storage space and such underneath if I hadn't been in such a rush to get it done.

[Mike Cruz]

And here are a few more. No, the design isn't perfect and I'm sure it could be tweeked but I'm happy with it.

[Doug Carpenter]

Wow thats pretty cool. My neighbor has two motors he wants to give me. I'll have to find out more about them. I can dig the home made tools.

[Mike Cruz]

As I mentioned earlier (at least I think it was in this thread) you want motors that are 1725 rpm, not 3450. 3450 will be too fast.

[Scott T Smith]

Scott,

I agree the whole thing tilting might be nice as well. I wonder if the oscilating part can be turned off.

Thanks, Doug

Doug, I don't think that the oscillation can be turned off. It's not much - only 1/2" or so, but it's an integral part of the machine.

[Doug Carpenter]

Scott,

I guess if it only moves 1/2" I could get used to it. It would be silly to pay that much for it and disable the main feature. Kinda like buying a sports car and removing some spark plugs! Sure would be nice to go stand in front of one and get a feel for it. I should look and see if they have a showroom near me or maybe they have sold one to a shop near me.

Mike,

I agree with the speed issue.