Spray Finishing Question

[Mike Goetzke]

If you spray finish let's say a cabinet door. Do you just spray up/down or across or do you first spray the area between the panel and rails/stiles first then spray the panel and frame?

The reason I asked is that on my last project (an entry door) I just sprayed the whole thing top to bottom but noticed lots of finish accumulated on the rail/stile profiles. So I called Fuji (I have their Q4) and they said to adjust the gun to a round pattern and spray the pattern area first then to adjust to a fan and spray the panel and rails/stiles while trying to avoid the pattern area. Does this sound right - seems to me to be a bit hard to do.

Mike

[Neal Clayton]

it is kinda hard to do ;).

the people at fuji are correct, basically. i spray the profile'd edges first, single stroke, don't go back if you miss anything or you'll leave a dark spot, just have to catch it on the next coat if you miss.

then come back around the flat surfaces after the profiles and blend those in. for my last two coats, i'll lightly dust the whole, giving a little bias to the areas between the joints, rather than the joints themselves, to blend those spots.

some pics of during/after here...

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost.php?p=1184459&postcount=7

fwiw i don't change the pattern, i use a wide fan pattern the whole time, but i'm using a lesser spray set up than you so changing that might give you better results.

[Phil Phelps]

What I'm spraying and what I am using dictates how I spray. If I am spraying a raised panel door with lacquer, I might edge the profile first and then criss cross the the door. If it's oil base paint, I'll criss cross the door without detailing the profile. If it's an airless rigg, I'll probably spray one direction. Criss crossing with an airless tends to flood a panel door.

[Mike Goetzke]

I should have shown an image first. This is a corner of the entrance door I completed. I stood the door up and sprayed top to bottom then bottom to top. Note how the finish had a tendency to pile up in the profile (ahh - but I just thought about it, it was only on the horizontal profiles). I did some sanding to eliminate this and even masked off the indented profile area to finish it off. It ended up much better than expected. My next project down the road is new kitchen cabinets - lots of them so I want to develop the correct technique now:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/Projects/Entrance%20Door/Finishing/IMG_0355.jpg


Thanks

[Mike Goetzke]

I should have shown an image first. This is a corner of the entrance door I completed. I stood the door up and sprayed top to bottom then bottom to top. Note how the finish had a tendency to pile up in the profile (ahh - but I just thought about it, it was only on the horizontal profiles may be a hint?). I did some sanding to eliminate this and even masked off the indented profile area to finish it off. It ended up much better than expected. My next project down the road is new kitchen cabinets - lots of them so I want to develop the correct technique now:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/Projects/Entrance%20Door/Finishing/IMG_0355.jpg


Thanks

[Neal Clayton]

think about how your arm rotates and your natural tendency to follow that for comfortable movement. if you spray from top to bottom, the top rail profile and the bottom rail profile are likely getting a hefty dose from the gun, and are a straight shot from the gun...

[Neal Clayton]

and fwiw, my personal preference is to mimic what i would be doing if i were using a brush. if i were using a brush, it would be a light coat on the profiles, followed by the horizontal rails, followed by the vertical stiles to blend everything together, taking care to make sure the stiles are consistent from top to bottom at the end, and always going with the grain.

of course you don't have to do this with a gun, but it gives your mind a process to try and follow that you know will work, so it helps for me anyways.

[Phil Phelps]

I should have shown an image first. This is a corner of the entrance door I completed. I stood the door up and sprayed top to bottom then bottom to top. Note how the finish had a tendency to pile up in the profile (ahh - but I just thought about it, it was only on the horizontal profiles may be a hint?). I did some sanding to eliminate this and even masked off the indented profile area to finish it off. It ended up much better than expected. My next project down the road is new kitchen cabinets - lots of them so I want to develop the correct technique now:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/Projects/Entrance%20Door/Finishing/IMG_0355.jpg


Thanks
I don't think masking your doors off is a good idea. You need to spray with out flooding the door. A door laying flat is far easier to spray than one standing. What are you using to make that milky in the corner? Lacquer can blush and look similar to what you are showing.

[Michael Pyron]

I've found spraying into/onto details like that to be rather difficult...I had many cases of by the time I got enough finish into the details the areas around it would be too thick and tend to run or sag...then I modified my spraying technique to that of making 2 passes on projects, one horizontal and the other vertical (i.e. at 90* to each other) and found this works very well...

when shooting a non profiled piece I work at ~12psi of fluid pressure (I use a pressure pot and a Binks Mach1 SL HVLP gun) and the needle fully open (shooting a full fan pattern)..when shooting profiled pieces like a door or raised paneling I reduce the fluid pressure to ~9psi and restrict the needle just a tad...reducing the fluid flow and moving pretty fast allows me to make the 2 passes and not get too heavy of a build up...I also slightly angle my gun so that it points into the molding detail as I pass over that area at a right angle...making 2 passes at a right angle to each of them also pretty much eliminates any blank spots in the spraying pattern and gives a real nice even finish....

[Rob Cunningham]

Mike, it looks like you are laying down too much material. Try backing off on your fluid flow a little. If you're spraying WB, ( I think I saw your door on the Target forum) keep your wet mil thickness around 2-3 mils max. I like to spray my doors flat, and make 2 passes 90* to each other (boxcoating)

[Mike Goetzke]

Thanks for the replies. The finish I used was Target WB EM9300 Polycarbonate Urethane.

1) I had a mill gauge and tried to lay it at 2-3 mills (actually 7-coats in all).

2) I did all coats up/down - guess I should have alternated.

3) The door was 150# plus I'm guessing so that's why I had the door in a vertical position while finishing. Smaller doors should be much easier to finish horizontally.

4) I sort of get the idea of spraying as if you are using a brush in theory. But, in practice say on the door panel I don't think I have the skill to start/stop the gun in the middle of the work piece to miss the indented profiles. Is there a technique for this?

It's funny even though I felt like I had so many problems with finishing the door it actually can out beautiful/professional looking. Guess just looking to become better and more efficient.

Mike

[Tony Bilello]

......
the people at fuji are correct, basically. i spray the profile'd edges first, single stroke, don't go back if you miss anything or you'll leave a dark spot, just have to catch it on the next coat if you miss.
then come back around the flat surfaces after the profiles and blend those in. for my last two coats, i'll lightly dust the whole, giving a little bias to the areas between the joints, rather than the joints themselves, to blend those spots.
fwiw i don't change the pattern, i use a wide fan pattern the whole time, but i'm using a lesser spray set up than you so changing that might give you better results.

I spray exactly like Neal does. That is the accepted practice. I also spray the edges of the doors after the profiles then I spray the rest of it. I also criss cross on each coat with the cross spray being light.

[Neal Clayton]

Thanks for the replies. The finish I used was Target WB EM9300 Polycarbonate Urethane.

1) I had a mill gauge and tried to lay it at 2-3 mills (actually 7-coats in all).

2) I did all coats up/down - guess I should have alternated.

3) The door was 150# plus I'm guessing so that's why I had the door in a vertical position while finishing. Smaller doors should be much easier to finish horizontally.

4) I sort of get the idea of spraying as if you are using a brush in theory. But, in practice say on the door panel I don't think I have the skill to start/stop the gun in the middle of the work piece to miss the indented profiles. Is there a technique for this?

It's funny even though I felt like I had so many problems with finishing the door it actually can out beautiful/professional looking. Guess just looking to become better and more efficient.

Mike

you'll never miss anything entirely. what you're shooting for is consistent coverage. so the idea is to go quick and light on the profiles, then dust the rails/stiles from further away so that they blend together. and as you add coats, get a bit further away with the gun each time, and give a little bias to light spots. when you get down to the last couple of coats, as tony said, just dust the whole thing with very very light coats in random directions, to even everything up.

to clarify...

1) i'm spraying the entire door on every coat, never entirely leaving any part out (except trying to avoid the prefinished panels on the first two coats as best i can).

2) profiles first, quickly going around them with a fast light pass.

3) then the rails, some of this will spill over to the profiles and the stiles, that's why you give the profiles a light pass. try to have the gun perpendicular to each rail.

4) then the stiles, staggering the movement of the gun to bias toward the light spots between the joints, but still making a full pass on each stile.

5) on the last two coats, dust the whole, with as light a coat or lighter as you were using on the profiles to start with. again trying to blend in lighter spots between rail/stile joints.

6) once you have even coverage, that's it, let it cure then buff it out.