Need ideas

[michael I anderson]

I'm building a walnut table and bench for some people and they want it to be 4' x 8' ,I know it's huge.
The top is my concern , I have cut and planed 4 boards just over 12'' wide and over 8' long by 1'' thick . The pic they had given me to go by shows a separation ,1/8 to 1/4 between the top boards but they now want them tight .
I am not going to do a glue up ,I just see a failure so I'm looking for a way to keep them all together and flat ,maybe biscuits or dowels or just screwing from below. MC of my lumber is around 11-12 %

:confused:

[michael I anderson]

I think I've been ignored ,so heres a pic to show my dilemma.

Now I'm back to gluing ,probably biscuits and gorilla glue.

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg290/boomerdogmike/work%20pics/dads181.jpg

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg290/boomerdogmike/work%20pics/dads183.jpg

[Danny Hamsley]

I would definitely glue the top. I assume that it is an interior application?

[kevin loftus]

Hi Michael, either of the ways you suggest will work, but
i would go for biscuits over dowels personally. Also glueing
edge to edge is a very common way of doing this too, so
it's really down to you. I vote for biscuits as you don't have
to be as precise in doing them as for dowels i.m.o. H.T.H.:)

[Ken Shoemaker]

I'd use the darker (yellow) glue for walnut on the long grain, biscuts on the lower third of the boards to keep them leveled. You'll be fine.

[Lee Schierer]

I'm not sure why you want to avoid glue. Just mount your top so it can slide on the supporting rails. Dowels or biscuits will only help the areas where they actually are stay aligned. Spaces in between will still tend to move over time. If some one spills a liquid on the surface, the non-glued joints will wick in the liquid and you won't be able to clean it out.

I vote for gluing and clips under the top to hold it to the rails.

[Rob Cunningham]

As long as your edge joints are good, you should be fine gluing up the top. Like Ken, I prefer the Titebond Dark for walnut. Make sure you have plenty of clamps before you start.:)

[Prashun Patel]

The 'easiest' way I've found to do a glue up (if you're willing to use mechanical fasteners):

Pocket screws on the bottom. You'll need cauls to hold the boards flush while you screw them, but it's a lot less sweaty than trying to caul AND clamp the boards at the same time.

If it were me, I'd use wood glue on the edges also. The screws then just serve as clamps.

I'd also not use Gorilla Glue. A wood glue is fine here and easier to control.

Last, I don't understand what you mean by "I just see a failure". Gluing up a top like that is pretty standard practice. The only risk of failure I see is by gluing or screwing the aprons to the top without allowing for expansion room.

[Greg Sznajdruk]

About 25 years ago a friend brought me a table of similar dimensions to repair. His family had brought the table from Spain. I don't know what type of wood it was made of, but it was composed of 6 slabs 2 inches thick. The original glue had failed in many areas. I cut the top along the glue lines and joined the edges. I used yellow carpenters glue and edge glued the top. The table is still in use with no signs of failure. I think modern glues today are better than what I used. Biscuits and or dowels should hold the top together for several generations.

Greg

[Carroll Courtney]

I think that this a job for dowels,much better than biscuits.Table looks good---Carroll

[Scott T Smith]

I'd use the darker (yellow) glue for walnut on the long grain, biscuts on the lower third of the boards to keep them leveled. You'll be fine.


+1. Other options to biscuits or dowels would be a spline joint or using a Domino. However I think that biscuits are the fastest and easiest.

Do you have any cauls to assist with the clamping alignment? If not, Mike Henderson had an excellent post here recently about making them. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...=5960&t=126343 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?referrerid=5960&t=126343)

[michael I anderson]

Thanks everyone ,been very helpful ,table tops are a once in a great while thing for me and I have never done one this large.

Just one question ,what are the cauls you are talking about when clamping ? Do you have a link .or a pic.

Answered my own question:Dhttp://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.mikes-woodwork.com/images/Cabinets/Cabinets-06.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mikes-woodwork.com/Cauls.htm&usg=__bxVj23WT1ZqYatPwInqnnAvcYEM=&h=600&w=800&sz=73&hl=en&start=17&um=1&tbnid=BFRTQFjGIOguOM:&tbnh=107&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcauls%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN %26um%3D1

Been doing that for 25 years I just didn't know they had a name .

[Kent A Bathurst]

FWIW - On glue-ups like this, I quit using my dowel jig 12 yrs ago when I got my biscuit cutter. I quit using my biscuit cutter 10 years ago when I got my cauls all set up. I haven't personally seen any thing that says joints are stonger with biscuits than they are with well-jointed edges, glue and clamps - not arguing with anyone, just saying....Plus, with the cauls I get better alignment than I did with the biscuits.

I am hanging onto the biscuit cutter because I think it would help installing face frames to cabinets, if I ever get stupid enough to (again) volunteer to redo the kitchen. Already did that once in previous house.

[Terry Beadle]

If you are not wanting to do a glue up ( and I don't know why ) then I'd recommend you do bread board ends with two tennons on each piece end. That would trap the wood and keep them tight. Be sure to plane the edges with a slight concavity so that you get a designed tension between the edges of the table boards. Put some expansion slop in the dowel wells for wood movement.

I don't recommend Grizzley glue for table tops. Titebond or Elmers or even hoof hot glue would be much better. If you do the non-glue-up suggestion, you should still do a little glue in the bread board ends but only on one side of the tennon ends. That will allow the movement to go outwards. I hope that's clear enough that you'll want to glue only enough to hold but not to trap the expanding/contracting edges and only in one direction.

I would also recommend the spline idea mentioned above. This could be some accenting purple heart or other exotic. Just a 1/4 to 3/8ths thick, mountes with no glue in a dado on the edges at mid thickness. Then you could round the edges of the top planks for a tounge and groove look with the accent spline allowing expansion/contraction and when expansion occurs more of the spline would show. That's quite a bit more work than just some bisquits and glue but it could make the piece stand out.