Joshua Dinerstein
12-17-2009, 2:52 PM
(Sorry I can't resist titles that remind me of the Rock and Bullwinkle show. My Dad loved to watch those with us when we were younger... I didn't get them then but now I have a great appreciation for them. :)
I have contacted both Sean at ToolNut and Powermatic after the tech finished at my house but I wanted to post here too.
First off, I wanted to say thanks to the great people here on the Creek for all of the help and information.
I almost can't say it for fear of jinx'ing it but I do believe my that my lathe is now fixed!!! I had hoped to write this sooner than this but my daughter has been having a few health issues and 3 trips to the hospital later she seems to be on the mend.
Anyway, Eric the new tech from second local company, first first being some less than helpful, came and worked on my lathe last Thursday. The parts came in the day before on Wednesday. He told me flat out that he had never ever seen a parts order come that fast. Powermatic had said they would expedite things for me and I am very grateful that they were as good as their word and did! So Thank You WMH!
Eric was extremely sharp and knew just what he was doing. He started to dismantle the headstock all the while explaining what he was doing in great detail to me. I think my worries and frustration must have shown on my face because he really went above and beyond to show me he was doing and what was going on. He moved quickly and confidently and had the headstock apart in short order.
He did tell me that he had never had it be so easy to take apart. Everything was still "new" and fully greased up with nothing stuck, frozen or corroded. He also told me that he had never had to do this on a lathe that was this new. *sigh* Like I said before just simply cursed.
Anyway, we took the time to look over the spindle and bearings as they came out. I know the tolerances are too fine for most things to see with the unaided eye but I guess I was hoping to see something that was totally whack on it so that I could point to it, tell it was wrong and know that the new one would fix it. There was nothing so Eric moved onto re-assembly. I got to be "helpful" by holding lights and what not. :)
I am sure that in looking back at I was about as helpful as I was to my Dad when I was a kid. Too much excitement I guess at the thought of getting my favorite toy fixed.
Eric had it back together in just a few minutes and we started measuring things. Once again, just like the first spindle that came with it, the important surfaces measured scarily true on the spindle itself. No more than 1/10th of a mil on the main faces. And that seems more like the friction of starting to turn the spindle than anything else.
So we mounted up the face-plate that came with the lathe and it had the same wobble as before. I mean literally the same exact numbers from the same places across the face and outer edge of the faceplate! At this point my heart hit my shoes!
So we moved onto the chuck. Same wobble measured here. Eric was stumped. I was despondent. So we removed the chuck and checked the tightness of the spindle locking nut and looked for motion. Lather rinse and repeat on tests on the chuck and it measured the same. So for good or bad it truly mounting the same as it had on the previous spindle.
With nothing left to try I chucked up a nice big roughed out bowl blank onto my new Vicmarc chuck. It was a trumpet shaped bowl. So had 3 faces. The outer rim, the concave curve to the bottom of the bowl and the bottom surface itself. I think I was too nervous and upset because I butchered the rim on my first cut. Not a catch just the worst possible cut I could make. *sigh* I was watching everything on the lathe but what I was actually doing. But it made me think it we still going operate terribly. So a few deep breaths, a firm grip on my bowl gouge and on the second cut it worked as expected. Then cut the concave curve from top to bottom and then the bottom itself. So once I was back on track I made the 3 light cuts in 1 go.
IT SPUN COMPLETELY TRUE!
Hallelujah! Can you believe it?!!?
Seriously perfectly true. No visible wobble or ghosting. None of the problems I have been fighting before since first setting up the lathe.
I am flat out flabbergasted about that. Seriously I mean it. It measured the same in terms of run out. The exact same numbers on both my dial indicator and Eric's high end one and the exact same as before on the previous spindle. But with the lathe running the wobble was gone!!!
I then did some spindle work and it worked perfectly there as well. Meaning I chucked up a spindle blank and turned the outter edge to true on the meeting faces 10 or so inches from the face of the chuck. Again no wobble or ghosting in the work piece.
So I guess all the comments from so many sources about less than 4 mils is within tolerance were right. I am between 1 and 2mils on the chuck and it works. Just the way I would have hoped from the very beginning.
BIG QUESTION: Can any of you tell me, even if it is just a guess, what could possibly have cause my problems if the chuck seats the same on the new spindle when it is off but wobbles so terribly when the lathe is on and spinning? I ask because I am totally stumped after what I saw for what could have caused that. It has to lie somewhere in the spindle and the bearings as that is what got replaced but what? how? where?
And for the record the guys at ToolNut are the best customer service guys I have ever worked with. WMH gets top marks too! Timberline in Orem not so much. And of course you Creekers are the best. I have and will continue to give Powermatic my highest praise. Pending of course a good answer to my above question. ;)
Joshua
P.S. Being a software engineer I wish we had had the time to replace just one piece at a time. I would like to have known which exact piece it was that was bad. Just for my own peace of mind. But we replaced all 3 bearings and the spindle and with all replaced it works... So at least it got narrowed that far for me.
I have contacted both Sean at ToolNut and Powermatic after the tech finished at my house but I wanted to post here too.
First off, I wanted to say thanks to the great people here on the Creek for all of the help and information.
I almost can't say it for fear of jinx'ing it but I do believe my that my lathe is now fixed!!! I had hoped to write this sooner than this but my daughter has been having a few health issues and 3 trips to the hospital later she seems to be on the mend.
Anyway, Eric the new tech from second local company, first first being some less than helpful, came and worked on my lathe last Thursday. The parts came in the day before on Wednesday. He told me flat out that he had never ever seen a parts order come that fast. Powermatic had said they would expedite things for me and I am very grateful that they were as good as their word and did! So Thank You WMH!
Eric was extremely sharp and knew just what he was doing. He started to dismantle the headstock all the while explaining what he was doing in great detail to me. I think my worries and frustration must have shown on my face because he really went above and beyond to show me he was doing and what was going on. He moved quickly and confidently and had the headstock apart in short order.
He did tell me that he had never had it be so easy to take apart. Everything was still "new" and fully greased up with nothing stuck, frozen or corroded. He also told me that he had never had to do this on a lathe that was this new. *sigh* Like I said before just simply cursed.
Anyway, we took the time to look over the spindle and bearings as they came out. I know the tolerances are too fine for most things to see with the unaided eye but I guess I was hoping to see something that was totally whack on it so that I could point to it, tell it was wrong and know that the new one would fix it. There was nothing so Eric moved onto re-assembly. I got to be "helpful" by holding lights and what not. :)
I am sure that in looking back at I was about as helpful as I was to my Dad when I was a kid. Too much excitement I guess at the thought of getting my favorite toy fixed.
Eric had it back together in just a few minutes and we started measuring things. Once again, just like the first spindle that came with it, the important surfaces measured scarily true on the spindle itself. No more than 1/10th of a mil on the main faces. And that seems more like the friction of starting to turn the spindle than anything else.
So we mounted up the face-plate that came with the lathe and it had the same wobble as before. I mean literally the same exact numbers from the same places across the face and outer edge of the faceplate! At this point my heart hit my shoes!
So we moved onto the chuck. Same wobble measured here. Eric was stumped. I was despondent. So we removed the chuck and checked the tightness of the spindle locking nut and looked for motion. Lather rinse and repeat on tests on the chuck and it measured the same. So for good or bad it truly mounting the same as it had on the previous spindle.
With nothing left to try I chucked up a nice big roughed out bowl blank onto my new Vicmarc chuck. It was a trumpet shaped bowl. So had 3 faces. The outer rim, the concave curve to the bottom of the bowl and the bottom surface itself. I think I was too nervous and upset because I butchered the rim on my first cut. Not a catch just the worst possible cut I could make. *sigh* I was watching everything on the lathe but what I was actually doing. But it made me think it we still going operate terribly. So a few deep breaths, a firm grip on my bowl gouge and on the second cut it worked as expected. Then cut the concave curve from top to bottom and then the bottom itself. So once I was back on track I made the 3 light cuts in 1 go.
IT SPUN COMPLETELY TRUE!
Hallelujah! Can you believe it?!!?
Seriously perfectly true. No visible wobble or ghosting. None of the problems I have been fighting before since first setting up the lathe.
I am flat out flabbergasted about that. Seriously I mean it. It measured the same in terms of run out. The exact same numbers on both my dial indicator and Eric's high end one and the exact same as before on the previous spindle. But with the lathe running the wobble was gone!!!
I then did some spindle work and it worked perfectly there as well. Meaning I chucked up a spindle blank and turned the outter edge to true on the meeting faces 10 or so inches from the face of the chuck. Again no wobble or ghosting in the work piece.
So I guess all the comments from so many sources about less than 4 mils is within tolerance were right. I am between 1 and 2mils on the chuck and it works. Just the way I would have hoped from the very beginning.
BIG QUESTION: Can any of you tell me, even if it is just a guess, what could possibly have cause my problems if the chuck seats the same on the new spindle when it is off but wobbles so terribly when the lathe is on and spinning? I ask because I am totally stumped after what I saw for what could have caused that. It has to lie somewhere in the spindle and the bearings as that is what got replaced but what? how? where?
And for the record the guys at ToolNut are the best customer service guys I have ever worked with. WMH gets top marks too! Timberline in Orem not so much. And of course you Creekers are the best. I have and will continue to give Powermatic my highest praise. Pending of course a good answer to my above question. ;)
Joshua
P.S. Being a software engineer I wish we had had the time to replace just one piece at a time. I would like to have known which exact piece it was that was bad. Just for my own peace of mind. But we replaced all 3 bearings and the spindle and with all replaced it works... So at least it got narrowed that far for me.