So why shouldn't I buy a new Stanley LA block plane??

[Zahid Naqvi]

I am starting to get frustrated with the price of Stanley block planes on the bay. It seems anything low angle can't go for lower than $30-36. Granted I will have to spend significant elbow grease to get an old rusted plane in working condition, why shouldn't I just get a new Stanley low angle ($34 plus $6 shipping) and tune that into working condition. I would understand if some of the older block planes on ebay were of the pre war era, but some of those look like they were made in the 80s or even 90s. How different could they be from the ones Stanley produces now?

[Leif Hanson]

I'm pretty sure you can fettle a newer block plane to work just fine. I've not had the experience, myself - the newest plane I have is a Stanley 220 that I bought new in 1983 - but that one works OK for me. Oh, it's not the one that attracts the most attention on the shelf, but it's often the one I grab first...

That said - why limit yourself to Stanley? And what models are you looking at that are going that high - a Stanley 65 is going for quite a bit more than a number 60.

Have you looked at other brands? Sargent and Miller's Falls (http://www.public.coe.edu/~rroeder/main/blok/blok.htm) made several excellent quality low angle block planes... Don't rule out Craftsman (the 3732 is just a rebranded Stanley 65 or Sargent equivalent).

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Zahid, the newer Stanley can be made to work just fine. If you still want to find an older one you have to aggresively bid e-bay to find a plane at the price you want to pay. Search every day and mark the low angles as they come up for sale. Bid your max on one and as soon as you are outbid, bid your max on the next one. I just did a search for low angle planes on e-bay and there were 15 that sold for less than $40 between September 24 and today. About half went for less than $30. Hang in there and good luck.

[Zahid Naqvi]

Zahid, the newer Stanley can be made to work just fine. If you still want to find an older one you have to aggresively bid e-bay to find a plane at the price you want to pay. Search every day and mark the low angles as they come up for sale. Bid your max on one and as soon as you are outbid, bid your max on the next one. I just did a search for low angle planes on e-bay and there were 15 that sold for less than $40 between September 24 and today. About half went for less than $30. Hang in there and good luck.

The only reason I am watching for older planes is that all cronies opine that older, pre 60s, planes are significantly better quality than the current crop. The real question is which one is better, a well tuned 2004 LAB plane or a well tuned 1950 LAB plane.

Leif, I've been watching out for Sargent, Millers Falls and Keen Kutter, same story.

[Tyler Howell]

Zahid,

After viewing the internet video on the FWW web sight and applying the skills I learned in the Neander class I was able to beat my Stanley Low ange Block plane into submission:eek: .http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=105696#post105696
Spent a whole Nicole Kidman movie, fettling the the blade and sole into a useable tool, and this was right out of the box.
So it's doable. "Some fine tuning required";)

[Steve Cox]

I attended a 2 year program at my local community college for cabinetmaking. When we were new students one of our tool requirements was a LA block plane. I already had one, era unknown and used that. One day I compared another students new plane and my older one. The differences were many and significant. Most I can't remember right now, but the one that does stick in my head is the blade support. On the new one the blade was supported towards the back and at the very edge. On mine, the supports in both those places were wider and better machined plus there was support for the blade all the way between the front and back of the blade. There were many other differences that really made me think the new plane was just junk. On another thought, I have a 60 1/2 with a Hock blade in it. Spent about $30 for the plane and about the same for the blade. It still isn't anywhere near the plane that my LV LA block plane is. If I had a do over, I'd save more money in the long run by buying a LV or Lie-Nielsen block at the start rather than after I figured out how much difference it could make.

[Dave Anderson NH]

I have an English made Stanley from about 10 years ago though it's not the low angle. It works well for me though it took a lot of fettling to get it operating properly and it now has a Hock iron in it which certainly added to its overall cost. I have it only because it was a gift from one of my sisters and I don't believe in wasting tools. Steve Cox's observations are correct, the machining is not as good and most importantly the blade support areas are smaller and inadequate. Generally, overall quality is mediocre at best.

Unless money is a major consideration, I would consider buying new from either LV or LN. I realize you want to maximize the number of planes and other hand tools you can get with your available cash, but this is not the place to skimp. Of all of my planes, my low angle block plane is the one I use more than any other, and perhaps more than half of my other planes combined. I use it for carpentry around the house and for my finer woodworking. Chamfered and radiused edges, trimming and cleaning up end grain, ocaasional jointing of short pieces, and even the odd bit of smoothing. The small size and versatility makes this a very useful tool and as such well worth a little extra investment.

[Rolf Schmid]

one my wishlist was also a low angle block plane with adjustable Mouth.
Now its almost finished:
http://www.hobel-und-eisen.de/holz/HObel/Flachbetthobel_Einhand22.jpg
now only the wooden knob and the iron is missing, it will be made of 6mm thick A2 steel ...
http://www.hobel-und-eisen.de/holz/HObel/P1040663.jpg
regards
Rolf

[Tom LaRussa]

one my wishlist was also a low angle block plane with adjustable Mouth.
Now its almost finished:

:eek: THAT'S COOL! :eek:

Would you care to post a "how to" for us all to see? I for one would greatly appreciate it, and I'm sure many others would as well -- particularly if building it does not require a whole shop full of metalworking tools. :)

[Tom LaRussa]

I have an English made Stanley from about 10 years ago though it's not the low angle.
Dave,

I have one of these as well. I bought it myself about ten years ago, i.e., "before I knew better."

On the one hand, you're absolutely right about the lousy blade support, and the plane needing some fettling.

On the other hand, I just scary-sharped the factory-provided blade in mine and I can literally read the newspaper through a shaving.

With that said, I have to admit that I lust after the Veritas low angle "apron plane." (See pics below.) Looks like the perfect little grab-it-and-use-it plane to me. At just $65 US it's a bargain compared to most other boutique planes out there as well.

[Tom LaRussa]

I am starting to get frustrated with the price of Stanley block planes on the bay.
Zahid,

Whatever plane you decide on, keep the following -- which is copied direct from the Hock website -- in mind when folks start telling you that you simply must put an A2 blade into it.



Our high carbon steel (http://www.hocktools.com/steelrap.htm) blades can be honed easier and sharper. And our Cryogenically treated A2 blades (http://www.hocktools.com/A2.htm) will hold an edge longer. http://www.hocktools.com/products.htm (emphasis added.)

For that matter, all of my planes work just fine -- by which I mean they take shavings thin enough to read through -- using the stock blades. My advice would be not to replace any blades until you get good enough at sharpening so that you know the problem is the blade and not the user.

JMHO, etc.,

:)

[Rolf Schmid]

Hi Tom,
you need at least a professional milling machine, as all my metal planes are milled from solid metal. My part is the design and the technical drawings and then i organize the production process, as i myself have no direct access to this machines. (And I don´t like working with metall!!!)
regards
Rolf

[Tom LaRussa]

Hi Tom,
you need at least a professional milling machine, as all my metal planes are milled from solid metal. My part is the design and the technical drawings and then i organize the production process, as i myself have no direct access to this machines.
Oh. Okay. Not exactly a do-it-myself project then.



(And I don´t like working with metall!!!)
Can't say I blame you. Woodworking leaves lovely, soft, fragrant shavings.

Metalworking leaves jagged, spiny, hard little bits that cut one's skin and smell like ... um ... I don't know, but it's not attractive.

[Charles McKinley]

Hi Rolf,

Have you ever figured out the cost of putting your planes into production? You have some very interesting looking designs. Would you make a post of all of the planes you have made?

Thanks,

[Rolf Schmid]

Here is a list of the plane I build or which are in produciton line
Here you can find a lots of picturesof the planes (German)
http://www.hobel-und-eisen.de/hobelbau.htm
The first one:
#1 Bed angle 47°, padouk, iron lee nielsen, adjustable mouth
http://www.hobel-und-eisen.de/holz/NOrris3.jpg
#2 Sphokeshave, hock iron very tight mouth
http://www.hobel-und-eisen.de/holz/schweifhobel_f2.jpg
#3 infill with japanese Iron, padouk, adjustable mouth
http://www.hobel-und-eisen.de/holz/jap3.jpg
#4 milled from solid brass Hard chrome coated, Tulipwood, iron 6mm PM HSS

http://www.hobel-und-eisen.de/holz/Flachwinkel_seite_mon.jpg
#5 wooden smoother, IPE, iron 6mm PM HSS
http://www.hobel-und-eisen.de/holz/holzhobel/P8060573kl.jpg
#6 infill with 50°,padouk, iron lee nielsen, adjustable mouth
http://www.hobel-und-eisen.de/holz/Griff_norris/P5160372.JPG
#7 block plane milled of solid brass, iron 6mm A2 Toolsteel
http://www.hobel-und-eisen.de/holz/HObel/P1040664.JPG
#8 IPE jointer ( in progress) 60°, 560mm long, iron 6mm PM HSS
http://www.hobel-und-eisen.de/holz/HObel/Holzrauhbank/P1090669.jpg
#9 rabbet block plane with adjustable Mouth, iron 6mm A2 Toolsteel
http://www.hobel-und-eisen.de/holz/HObel/Einhandsimshobel3.jpg
I am currently working on an infill which may see a small production line..
In Germany buisness is very complicated, taxes, governement.....
regards
Rolf

[Leif Hanson]

Impressive! :cool:

Beautiful work, Rolf!