Counter Height Dining Table

[Bart Standefer]

I am a newbie, so be easy......

A counter height dining table will be my first furniture project. I haven't chose the wood yet, but leaning towards red oak. The dimensions I sketched out are 42"w x50"l x36"h. I don't have a planar or a jointer, though looking into a jointer (I don't know how serious I am going to get with woodworking, being a metal fabricator, and running out of shop space). I live with my fiance, so just building a table for us and when we have guest. You think that is a good size?

I wanted to make it out of 8/4, 2"x4", with 4"x4" legs. I can't buy the wood locally, I have to order it or drive 5 hrs to a saw mill in central Texas. If I order it comes in different widths (4"-10"), so I would need a jointer to get a straight side then run it on my table saw to cut it down to 4". Other option I have is to go to Lowes/HD and do a glue together with 1"x4", to get 2"x4", but I don't know what I would do about the legs. Any thoughts?

Also, I don't see a lot of tables with the border cut in 45* angles, usually but-ends. I think the look of 45* cut border would look better. Is there a reason most table are not built that way?

[Jamie Buxton]

Okay, there's a basic issue you don't seem to know. Wood expands and contracts across the grain as its water content changes. The water content changes in a big way as the wood dries out after it is harvested. The water content also changes on an annual cycle, in response to the humidity of the air.

Lumber sold for making furniture is generally dried quite well. Lumber sold for building houses is not dried as thoroughly. The 2x4s you mention are construction lumber, and will shrink some as they dry. If your design accomodates the shrinkage, you could make a rustic table with them, but I wouldn't build a sophisticated table with them.

If I were you (a metal worker), I'd make the base from metal - tall metal legs of some sort. I might consider a foot rail, so you have some place to put your feet when you sit at the table.

The table top could be just edge-glued planks -- whatever you have. With wet lumber, it is going to shrink cross-grain over time. But that probably won't be very visible. However, if you try to "frame" the top with mitered corners, you'll get in trouble. The pieces of wood at the ends of the table are not going to shrink in length, but the body of the table is going to shrink in width. There will be gaps at the miters, or some other bad effect.

[Robert Reece]

Why not pay somebody to make your red oak slab and then you make the base out of metal (as previous poster suggested). I think that table would look awesome. My local hardwood dealer can glue up slabs for me and run them through the wide belt sander.

[Bart Standefer]

I don't want to use construction wood, so don't mistake my 2x4 wood choice. I just think 4" wide wood slats look great for table tops and 2" think would look and feel Texas built. I understand the humidity, and how woods are air dried and kiln dried, and how they contract and expand. The wood I was was looking at is kiln dried at 1.2% per day.

It is usually 80% avg. humidity where I live, and I figure 40% inside. I plan to double join with biscuits and glue.

Just trying to get some info and opinions before I jump into this.

[Bart Standefer]

Why not pay somebody to make your red oak slab and then you make the base out of metal (as previous poster suggested). I think that table would look awesome. My local hardwood dealer can glue up slabs for me and run them through the wide belt sander.

I have worked with metal for a while now, just wouldn't mind a change. I have built a few rustic tables from steel (some from old wagon wheels) and cedar. They are easy because there is not much to the finish and the less perfect it is joined, the more rustic it looks.

Plus my fiance would prefer an all wood table........ :)

[doug faist]

Bart - just another point you might want to consider. A counter-height dining table is going to be somewhat uncomfortable, at least to me.

I've built several dinng tables and all of them were either 30 or 31 inches depending on the chairs to be used.

Try pulling up a chair to your kitchen counter and see how it feels.

I'll also second the motion that you not use "borg" 2x4's for your top. Even a decent lumber yard will have kiln dried 2x's that would better serve your needs and not shrink nearly as much as construction lumber.

Above all, have fun with your project.

Doug

Addendum: Sorry, but I misread your post. Gluing up 1X4 oak would work but be a LOT of work. Again a decent lumber yard could probably order you some 2X oak that is nice and dry.

[Jamie Buxton]

Ah, I didn't read your post carefully. You're planning on using good dry oak.

Let me address your last question again - the one about 45 degree miters in the corners. You can do that if the middle of the table is plywood, but it isn't good construction practice if the middle of the table is solid lumber, as you plan. The middle of the table is going to expand and contract across the grain on what's usually an annual cycle. The piece at the end of the table is not going to change in length. So when the middle expands, it'll push the miter apart, or when it contracts, there is likely to be splitting someplace in the top. (When people put "butt-ends" on the table, that's generally called a breadboard end. They actually do a tricky sliding joint between the end piece and the middle of the table. It lets the middle grow and shrink without splitting anything.)

The easy way to make the big slab top is to just edge-glue the oak planks. Each plank runs the full length of the table. That's it. No breadboard ends, and no 45 degree border. This is also a classy look, to my eye, especially when you use 8/4 lumber.

[Tony Bilello]

......

A counter height dining table will be my first furniture project.... leaning towards red oak. The dimensions I sketched out are 42"w x50"l x36"h. ....
I wanted to make it out of 8/4, 2"x4", with 4"x4" legs. I can't buy the wood locally, I have to order it or drive 5 hrs to a saw mill in central Texas..............Also, I don't see a lot of tables with the border cut in 45* angles, usually but-ends. I think the look of 45* cut border would look better. Is there a reason most table are not built that way?

If you live in Rockport, Corpus is 30 minutes away. Surely there are hardwood places there for the cabinetmakers. Check with them on where to buy the wood.
Next obstacle to overcome would be your lack of experience and tools. Two inch thick oak may be more than you are capable of handling.
Suggestion: Buy a sheet of quality oak plywood for the top. Frame it out with 8/4 oak and use a lap joint on the corners instead of 45* miters. The frame would connect to the plywood with a spline joint. The lap is stronger, easier to make accurately fit and more professional looking.
On the underside, layer an additional piece of plywood (centered) and large enough to accomodate the base if mounting on a pedestal. If you are going to use 4 legs, 4 x 4's are a bit massive looking for a table that size. Also you will have to learn how to make an apron with mortise and tenon joints. Make the top and buy the pedestal base.
That is the easiest way to do it and still have a nice looking table. Go to furniture stores and look at their joinery.