Hand Tool Workbench [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Chris S Anderson

12-16-2009, 7:49 PM

Jim Foster

12-16-2009, 7:54 PM

I will strongly suggest getting Christopher Schwarz's book on workbenches. It is a very good primer and comes with two great designs.

James Scheffler

12-16-2009, 8:30 PM

I've read many articles and bought the new edition of Fine Woodworking's Benches. I have a particle board top on my 2x4 worktable now, but I really want to make something nice to look at and something easier to work on with hand tools. Here is my quandry:

1. Should I make the top out of hardwood?
If I'm doing sawing, planing, chiseling and pounding, would I want a top that is harder to mark up or one that is easier to sand and refinish? I was going for all white maple or hickory, but then read an article about using different hardwoods.
If I use hickory and maple together, will I get problems from different expansions?

2. If I make the top out of hardwood, do I have to make the base out of hardwood too? Will it be necessary to have a heavier base than the top?
I have some 6x6;s in the garage I was going to use for the legs, but they are pine.

3. WHat should I use to finish my top and legs? I don't want poly if I don't have to.

4. I have a 15" quick release vise. Should I set the inside of the vice with soft woods or hard? I have pine in there now, as I didnt want to dent any wood I put in there, but a teacher told me to use hardwoods.

5. Thickness of the top. Is there any general rule?

6. Weight. What is the general overall weight I should be seeking? I read that some table's tops weigh 200 lbs. Is that a good weight for hand tooling? And if so, what am I looking at for my legs and base?

Thanks,

C Anderson

I have a bench with a douglas fir top and pine legs. It works fine. Strong and heavy enough. I would go with a wood that has at least moderate hardness (like d-f) for the top, but the hardest of woods aren't really necessary.

I used shellac for finish because I have some pretty large seasonal changes in humidity in my basement, and shellac is very good for blocking vapor transmission. It might be overkill, as some don't put any finish on their benches.

I use pine on my vise faces, which works fine. They get pretty beat up, but they're cheap and easy to replace.

If you build the workbench to dimensions typical of traditional benches (e.g. 3" thick top and 4x4-size legs), it will be plenty heavy. Beyond that, don't worry too much about the weight.

There is something to be said for using cheaper wood, like dimensional lumber, for your first real bench. After you start doing a lot of hand tool work, you may find that what you thought was a great design may not work so well for you. For example, the height might not be quite right or you might want a different type of vise. It might be better to figure that out before you spend hundreds of dollars for expensive wood.

Jim

John A. Callaway

12-16-2009, 9:06 PM

as the 2 nd poster said.... Chris schwarz .... The workbench god when it comes to using hand tools... He has plenty of info posted on his blogs at popular woodworking and at his Lost art press website....Google him, and buy his blue book. If you are gonna build a bench, it will be the best 25 bucks you ever spent....

Jeff Skory

12-16-2009, 9:17 PM

I also would strongly recommend Schwartz's book. I own at least a couple of others, and while they all have a lot of info, Chris's book has very explicit instructions on building three different benches. For me at least this made it a lot easier.

And as far as weight, as James said, if the top is 3-4" thick it will be plenty heavy.

David Keller NC

12-16-2009, 9:25 PM

Generally speaking, the designs in Fine Woodworking's magazine and website aren't suitable, principally because the legs are not flush with the top. As someone that has built, used, and sold 6 benches and am working on a 7th, I cannot over-emphasize the correctness of Christopher Schwarz' observations on what makes a bench a good hand tool bench, including not putting an apron on it.

Realize that Fine Woodworking is no longer a suitable magazine, nor is an acceptable authority on what the title says - Fine Woodworking. That's not true of the mags from the 1980's and early/mid 1990s, but the magazine and website now is geared towards power-tool woodworkers of beginning to middle-range woodworking skills. That's OK for what it's aimed at, and many power-tool only woodworkers turn out some nice work, but it's not really the mag to be reading if you wish to develop hand-tool skills.

Believe it or not, the mag to have for that purpose is now Popular Woodworking, as well as Woodworking Magazine. That's been a rather spectacular 180 degree flip from the way things were in the early to mid nineties, when pop woodworking was full of birdhouse plans and Fine Woodworking and American Woodworker were the magazines to show you what to aspire to. Now American Woodworker is absolute schlock filled with tool reviews of the latest crap from the big-box stores, and "build a highboy from toothpicks in a weekend" sort of articles, and Fine Woodworking is heading that way as fast as the editors can push it that way.

Robby Tacheny

12-16-2009, 9:27 PM

I would also consider the type of work you do. A guy who builds boats may want some different things than a guy who builds jewerly boxes might. Personally, I prefer projects that I can complete in a few weekends right now. For me, a workbench with lots of options for clamping smaller pieces is more important. Also having the ability to hand plane thinner stock is important right now. So I am particularly interested in the idea of a workbench with two tail vises or at least the ability to switch the tail vise to the left side for use as an easily adjustable planing stop or to crosscut a board by hand.

I also like the idea of an easily removable face vise, for jointing wide boards. So think long and hard about what you currently do and where you might see yourself moving toward.

-R

Robert Rozaieski

12-16-2009, 10:52 PM

Chris,
I've used both hardwood and softwood benches. Here's what my experience has taught me about them.

1. Should I make the top out of hardwood?
If I'm doing sawing, planing, chiseling and pounding, would I want a top that is harder to mark up or one that is easier to sand and refinish? I was going for all white maple or hickory, but then read an article about using different hardwoods.
If I use hickory and maple together, will I get problems from different expansions?
I've made and used both hardwood and softwood benches. I like softwood. Hardwood benches are pretty, expensive, and...wait for it...hard. Most cabinet woods (walnut, cherry, mahogany, poplar, pine) are softer than most hardwood benches (maple, beech, birch, etc.). This means that when your furniture parts accidentally fight with your workbench, your workbench will win, every time. This has caused me to have to remake parts several times, which is not a pleasant experience. Drop a piece onto the bench or accidentally bang a part into it and the part will dent, scratch or chip before the bench will. This is not a good thing. Sure, a hardwood bench will resist scratching from tools more than a softwood bench, but it's a workbench. It is going to get scratched, dented and chipped. What's more important, the workbench or the pieces you will build on it? My first bench was softwood. I replaced it with hardwood because I thought a hardwood bench would be better. I have that hardwood bench now and will be selling it in the near future. I'll be making a new one from Doug Fir. Another benefit of a softwood top is that is has more "grip" than a hardwood top. Hardwood tops tend to be slippery so your work slides around easier.

2. If I make the top out of hardwood, do I have to make the base out of hardwood too? Will it be necessary to have a heavier base than the top?
I have some 6x6;s in the garage I was going to use for the legs, but they are pine.
Absolutely not. You can make the base and top from different woods. The base is not likely going to be heavier than the top anyway so just make its "wheelbase" wide enough to be stable. The 6x6 pine you have will be fine as long as it is not pressure treated. I wouldn't recommend using PT timber to make a workbench (or any indoor item for that matter). The stuff they use to pressure treat is not very pleasant.

3. WHat should I use to finish my top and legs? I don't want poly if I don't have to.

Nothing. Seriously. Ok, maybe oil the top a few times to prevent glue from sticking but do nothing more than that. It will be wasted effort as the finish will wear off from working on the bench but worse than that it will make the top slippery, which is not a good thing. A raw softwood top will have the best "grip", but a few coats of linseed oil will keep glue drips from sticking.

4. I have a 15" quick release vise. Should I set the inside of the vice with soft woods or hard? I have pine in there now, as I didnt want to dent any wood I put in there, but a teacher told me to use hardwoods.
If it's a steel jawed vise, use softwood. It won't dent your work and will grip better. Hardwood vise chops are only necessary for wooden jawed vises because you need the added stiffness/rigidity of the hardwood for an all wood vise. You could laminate the inside of a hardwood vise chop with something soft like pine as well for the same reasons to use it inside a steel jawed vise.

5. Thickness of the top. Is there any general rule?
For an unsupported top like a Ruobo bench, thicker will be more rigid and heavier and less likely to sag. For a bench like the Nicholson, which has cross bearers (like floor joists) to provide stiffness and support, top thickness is less important. Holdfasts need a certain thickness to hold, but you can solve this problem in a thinner top by putting blocking under the holdfast holes.

6. Weight. What is the general overall weight I should be seeking? I read that some table's tops weigh 200 lbs. Is that a good weight for hand tooling? And if so, what am I looking at for my legs and base?
Don't worry about the actual weight. While weight is good, it's more important to make sure the bench is very stiff and resists racking. The Ruobo is very heavy with massive legs. The Nicholson is probably less than half the weight of the Ruobo, but it still works very well because it is stiff. Stiffness in my experience is more important than weight. As long as your blades are sharp, most common bench designs are plenty heavy enough. If your bench is moving while you are planing, it's not because the bench is too light, it's because your planes are dull.

Whatever you decide on, don't over think it. In my experience, the simpler the bench, the better. Also, keep in mind that it's just a workbench. If you use it, it will get scratched, dented, stained, chiseled, sawn, drilled, cut, gouged, and glued. So make it from a locally available, inexpensive lumber that is easy to work and maintain (because it will need occasional flattening). In the end, it shouldn't be something that will upset you to accidentally cut into with a saw, otherwise, you won't use it for its intended purpose.

Just my 2 pennies. But you asked :D.

Stan Suther

12-16-2009, 11:02 PM

James Scheffler

12-16-2009, 11:25 PM

As a long time subscriber to several of those magazines, including FWW, I have to say you've really nailed the current situation. I get really frustrated with some of the lame articles I see in magazines other than Pop WW, but I guess they think they know what they're doing. Just got an offer from Woodworker's Journal which back in the day was one I really enjoyed. Now I'm not willing to pay just $10 for a year's worth of them.

A couple of years ago, Woodworker's Journal had just enough to interest me so that I kept subscribing. They would run Ian Kirby articles that got into handplanes, and occasionally there were some good projects (though written mostly from a power tool perspective). It's gone downhill a bit recently. I think I'll drop it when comes up for renewal.

Jim

Dave Anderson NH

12-17-2009, 9:46 AM

David, your rant about FWW and AmerWW cracked me up.:D Unfortunately I would have to agree with you 100%. PopWW and FTJ are now my only active subscriptions. The others were let lapse as they expired.

Andy Hsieh

12-17-2009, 10:33 AM

FWIW - hopefully this will answer some of your questions from a story point of view - I built a workbench that is a real clunker and no where as nice as the benches by many of the forum members here. I worked on this bench for about 5 minutes a week for 2 years - it got to the point where I just started with the "get it done" attitude so I began to not be so picky about many things and said I will deal with the results - after all, it was a roadblock to me starting a project of any kind in my head.

I wound up with 5/4 soft soft eastern white pine - about 80 dollars worth from the borg and a mcmaster carr 2 1/4 24x72 maple slab. I let it sit for a month in my basement where it will rest. I glued em all up - about 4 per leg and 2 per stretcher and side. I cut the gnarliest mortises and tenons seen to man - look like a senile beaver chewed them to dimension with it's one left chipped front tooth. I drawbored the legs - minus the one I muffed up and wound up sawing it off the leg and lag screwing that stretcher to one leg over again - still the base is somewhat racked - fixed by a scrap on the one leg that racked on the bottom and a piece of old leather on the top of one leg - all is level now and solid

So what i have now is bench - good nuf to start - soft pine base, oak dowels, LV quick release large front vise in front position and a 2 1/4 maple top from mcmaster carr. top is about 100 lbs and the base is about 40 lbs. I think due to the thickness of the base it compensates for the softness of the pine - at least for now....we'll see over time.the soft pine is still very solid as a base. no finish - maybe I'll add something later but most likely leave as is - still with layout markings on legs and dings etc..

so there you have it - a frankenbench that works fine with soft and hardwoods - a top that is thick but not roubo thick - don;t be afraid to try and experiment and even just do it - a great learning process and we all know that you will most likely have or build more than a single bench in your lifetime.

HTH

andy

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/picture.php?albumid=66&pictureid=2559
The whole you see on the right lower stretcher to leg is where i sawed off the stretcher and redid it using a bolt - ugly up close
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/picture.php?albumid=66&pictureid=2561
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/picture.php?albumid=66&pictureid=2562
you can see the hammer marks from me banging the snot out of the dowels to get them in - no worries to me about dinged up legs - character :)
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/picture.php?albumid=66&pictureid=2565

Pam Niedermayer

12-17-2009, 11:14 AM

You want a bench wood that will help you hold your work, not hinder.

Pam

James Scheffler

12-17-2009, 11:20 AM

FWIW - I cut the gnarliest mortises and tenons seen to man - look like a senile beaver chewed them to dimension with it's one left chipped front tooth.

They can't be any worse than the mortises and tenons I made for my bench! I also made the mistake of making though tenons, so the ugliness is there for the world to see. I don't have any pictures to post at this time, but I'm not sure that I want to. :) Still, its seems pretty solid and has held up to a few years of work.

Jim

Joe Close

12-17-2009, 12:51 PM

Jim Koepke

12-17-2009, 2:35 PM

This is one of those threads that should become permanent in the Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs.

A bench is a tool to hold something while it is being worked on.

Some of the questions make me think of an old song, "Ain't nobody's business but my own."

My first bench was actually a B&D Workmate. Kind of wobbly. I was going to make my own bench, but then saw the Sjoberg and had the money.

Looks something like this:

135501

Rob said a bench won't rack if your blade is sharp. He has a good point until you try to edge join an 8 foot board on a 5 foot bench. A 5 gallon bucket full of cement at one end has helped there.

I like the vises on this bench because they can be removed and they are pretty simple. It is also nice to have a leg flush to the edge to be able to throw a clamp on odd sized or shaped work. If your are going to have a leg vice, then that leg may be better if it is made of hard wood.

I don't like the vices on this bench because they are not very deep and they rack. That is not too hard to deal with using shims and scraps.

I like the idea of a wagon vice, but then, the bench would have to be long enough for working an 8 foot board laying on the wide side. I think I will go with Harry Junior's idea of having a lot of vises on my bench.

I like having an apron on the front to use hold fasts on boards or to have dogs supporting a long piece being edge planed.

If you are going to use hold fasts, make sure the wood is thick enough and strong enough. My bench has a little splitting from using hold fasts.

When using your current bench, make notes of what you do not like. Do you have to bend over too much to plane a piece or to saw? If so, adjust the height of the new bench.

Does the top get too cluttered when working on a project? Will a tool well or shelves and drawers correct this? Make sure to leave room between the top of any cabinets and the underside of the bench for any of the dogs, hold fasts or clamps you will be using.

Be sure to also make notes of the things you do like. The idea is to incorporate what works well and to correct what is not working as well as it could.

Surely one could make what amounts to a large saw horses covered with plywood and make many fine projects with its support. Though the real idea is to have a bench that makes one's work easier and more pleasurable no matter what others may think of your bench. The work should be a joy, not a frustration due to problems with the "main tool."

A trophy bench is nice to show off, but would you be afraid to do any work for fear of scratching that beautiful surface?

For a long time, I was overly careful about scratching my bench. Now, it has nicks and marks from wayward chisels and saws. But, it has also been a good learning experience about what works and how to get around the short comings.

In a few more years it will need to be replaced.

It will not be replaced with one of the world's most beautiful benches. There have been too many pictured here that I can not match. But it will be one that works great for me and what it will be used to make.

jim

Chris S Anderson

12-17-2009, 7:36 PM

Awesome answers. Thanks. I will start making my pine base this weekend. One more question...

I have a cement floor in the garage where the bench will live. The floor slants slightly inward towards 2 center drains. What should I use or do to level my bench, as it will need some type of modification on 2 of the legs to make it perfectly level.

Jim Koepke

12-18-2009, 12:49 AM

I have a cement floor in the garage where the bench will live. The floor slants slightly inward towards 2 center drains. What should I use or do to level my bench, as it will need some type of modification on 2 of the legs to make it perfectly level.

This depends on how much the slant and if the bench is going to move or not.

If it is a light slant and you will ever want to move the bench, then making a shim to accommodate the slant would be the easy way. It could go under the top at one end or side depending on the orientation.

jim

Bruce Haugen

12-18-2009, 3:51 AM

Chris,
if your bench will slope slightly and you have any round handled tools, you should do whatever it will take to level the bench's top (e.g., shims under the legs). Otherwise, those tools (which sometimes have evil intent) WILL roll off and make a divot in the concrete floor with their perfectly honed edges.

Oh yeah, you should also get some rubber mats for the floor right in front of the bench. They will save your legs as well as the tools' edges.

Bruce, who has a user no-name pine bench and rubber mats.

Brian Kincaid

12-18-2009, 9:04 AM

There is something to be said for using cheaper wood, like dimensional lumber, for your first real bench. After you start doing a lot of hand tool work, you may find that what you thought was a great design may not work so well for you.

This is a very good point. If you luck yourself into a good design right off the bat (like I did) you will have a very functional bench. If not break it apart and start over with minimal loss of investment. My bench has an oak top, 2x4 construction lumber legs, pine vice add-ons, plywood ... it will not end up in a museum but I get A LOT done on it. I have dinked it up a few times I didn't cry as long as I would have with a more 'serious' bench.

-Brian

Tom Vanzant

12-18-2009, 11:35 AM

My garage shop has a domed floor, thanks to a previous owner. I solve the leveling problem by kicking a wedge under the caster or leg. It's not perfect, but it keeps things from rocking, if not level.
Tom

harry strasil

12-18-2009, 12:41 PM

FWIW, my workshop is in my basement that originally had a dirt floor and it was concreted (poured) in sections over the years so is not level. I drilled 1/2 inch holes in my sled feet and used 2" by 1/2" carriage bolts with square nuts mortised and gorilla glued into them for adjusters on all 4 legs so I can use a thin 1/2" wrench I made from a piece of 1/8" flat strap to adjust it level no matter where it sets. This has the added advantage of keeping the bench up off the floor in case of a moisture inflow or overflow.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/nu%20bench/benchleveler.jpg

and being old school I took a page from the WWer's of the past and all round handled tools have a flat spot on the round handles to prevent rolling off. Some benches have a dust and shaving collecting recessed tool tray to serve the purpose of keeping tools from rolling off.

harry strasil

12-18-2009, 12:51 PM

Did you happen to see this recent thread on benches. Lots of pics, give's you ideas.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=124750&highlight=bench

I would not get elaborate for the first bench. Just make it functional.

My NuBench is neither pretty or large, but it serves my purpose and fits my shop space and the type of WWing I prefer to do.

see the above mentioned thread for pictures or the long drawn out build thread http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=76185&highlight=bench+arrived for how I did it.

Remember the only one it has to satisfy is YOU, the USER.

Jim Koepke

12-18-2009, 1:06 PM

If you know someone in the appliance trade, you might be able to get some of the old leveling feet bolts from an old washer, dryer, stove or refrigerator to use like Harry has.

jim

harry strasil

12-18-2009, 1:19 PM

Being a Blacksmith by trade Jim, those metal light duty (tin) levelers would never hold up to the use I give a bench.

Josh Bowman

12-20-2009, 11:42 PM

Schwartz just wrote an editors note in the front of his latest Woodworking Magizine. He reflects on the pros and cons of his Roubo.