Delta 8" VS grinder -- owners?

[Jamie Straw]

Does anyone out there have (or had) the Delta variable speed 8" grinder? I picked one up last night, based on some good reports elsewhere, but I'm not happy with it upon the first spin of the wheels. They wobble badly -- not the kind that can be fixed with a dressing wheel. It's a side to side wobble, like it rehearsing for a hula-hoop contest. :mad:

I'm going to take it back tomorrow, and ask to test any unit they might want to exchange for it. But I'd like to know if anyone here has had a good experience with it.

Thanks!

[Gary DeWitt]

I've had one for a few years, wasn't happy with it out of the box either. Severe vibration. I changed the wheels out for Norton white 120 and gray 60 and it's acceptable. Would probably be perfect if I balanced the wheels as well, but it's usable as is. I think Delta just shoots themselves in the foot with really crappy wheels.
I assume you've checked how the wheels are mounted and if there is runout or vibration with the wheels off?

[Greg Just]

I have had one for almost 4 years and no issues, even out of the box. Maybe quality has dropped over that time. Today I would probably buy the slow speed grinder that Woodcraft has on sale a lot of the time.

[Thom Sturgill]

Bought one last year - no problems. I changed out the wheels and run a 100 grit on one end and a buffing wheel on the other, but not because of wobble in the wheels. I asked one of the vendors who sells the OneWay balancer if there was a problem with any brand of grinder and he stated that the ONLY problems they had seen in the shop was bad wheels, though I suppose it could have been dropped.

[Hilel Salomon]

Hi,

Sometimes it's the wheel you get or purchase. I've had good luck with the wheels which Woodcraft sells (I think that they're "camel" or something, but when I bought the Norton ones, I had to use the Oneway balancing kit to get them so that there was almost no wobble. If you are using the balancing kit on the Delta VS, you'll need specific steel washers to place the wheel on the shaft.

Regards, Hilel.

[Cliff Holmes]

A side to side wobble really shouldn't matter as long as the wheel is balanced, so +1 on the Oneway balancer.

I recently bought the Jet 8" grinder, whose wheel busted up when it started xxxxxxxxxxx That night, after processing the return to Amazon, I found the Delta at Lowes and bought it. However, after getting it home and messing with it for a while, I realized that I really liked the Jet much better. Much heavier duty, cast wheel covers vs stamped steel, etc, so I returned the Delta and ordered another Jet which has been great.

Right now, Amazon doesn't have it in stock and it doesn't appear to be coming up in searches: xxxxxxxx

[Steve Trauthwein]

A good way to test it is take the wheels off and run it without wheels. I am betting it will be as smooth as you could possibly want. The wheels are your problem.

Steve

[Allen Neighbors]

I bought one in 2005. Bought the Oneway balancing system, and a 120g wheel and 80g wheel. Mine is just about perfect. I love it. But I use it on the slowest speed. I think like the others. Probably the wheels are your problem.

[Paul Ray Moore]

I bought one in February of this year and I have the same side to side wobble. I don't remember seeing it when I first set it up but after taking the wheel off, for some reason I don't remember why, I started seeing the wobble. I haven't changed the wheels yet. I want to but just haven't spent the money yet. I find it is hard to dress the wheel to get a smooth surface but that could be me and not because of the wobble. I have gotten a very sharp edge using the grinder but I am always bothered by watching the wheel move side to side. I've taken them off and put them back on hoping that that would fix it but no luck. My next move is to replace the wheels and see if that fixes it.

[Jamie Straw]

Question: Other than having too big of a space between the wheel and the wheel cover, is there any safety problem with temporarily putting a 6" wheel on the 8" grinder? It will take a few days to get Norton wheels in, but I need to use the grinder before that! LMK what you think. Thanks.

[Jamie Straw]

My next move is to replace the wheels and see if that fixes it.

I have that same wobble in the Camel wheel from Woodcraft that's on my 6" grinder, and it has been very hard to get a decent bevel with that wobbly wheel. That's why I'm sticking with Norton wheels from now on. The price difference between the Norton and the Woodcraft (Camel) wheels isn't enough to put up with the imbalance. I'm sure it all could be ameliorated by a balancing kit, but I really don't have the $$ to be getting one right now.:(

[Ryan Baker]

The problem with the Delta is not the wheels.

I have the Delta 8" VS grinder and have posted about this numerous times before. Mine also had severe side-to-side wobble in the wheels (1/4"-3/8" at least). If you spend some time playing with it, you will find that the problem is with the inner flange washers and the way they meet the shaft. The shaft has a groove right where the inner washer sits. That washer actually seats up against a tiny step in the shaft (I forget the measurements now, but the step is something like under 10 thousandths). Combine the tiny step on the mating surface with the sloppy forming of the hole in the washer, and the result is that the washer sits crooked, partially over the step and partially not. (When new, there may be enough edge for the washer to sit flat, but the edge will soon wear away slightly and leave the washer sitting crooked again.) It is hard to explain, but easy to see in person. Perhaps the idea was to let the washer float and rely on the wheel to square it to the shaft. That is a bad design, given that the wheel hubs are even worse, and rely on multiple plastic, sloppy bushings to fill the large hub hole.

My grinder originally ran somewhat true, but after the first time I changed the wheels, it went downhill very fast. Replacement inner washers don't help.

If you have this grinder and can still return it, I highly suggest you do so.

The best thing that can be done for this grinder is to add the Oneway balancing kit. The machined hubs in the kit will sit against the tiny shoulder and still hold the wheel true. You don't actually need the special, machined washers as indicated in some places. What you need to do is to reverse the left and right side Oneway hubs so that they are mounted outside in from the normal way. (This procedure is from the Oneway site -- you can find it for this model grinder if you search a bit.) The problem then is that the outer quick-change nuts won't fit. I replaced the quick-change nuts with normal threaded nuts (which I prefer anyway) -- you can probably find them at your local hardware -- and everything fits fine.

I still have some vibration problems that I have had trouble dressing out. It seems to be changing as the wheel wears a bit. Rebalancing them may help. The Oneway kit took things from impossible to useable, but far from smooth. That's a lot to invest in a cheap grinder to make it useable. If returning it had been an option, I would have done it.

[Jamie Straw]

The problem with the Delta is not the wheels.

I have the Delta 8" VS grinder and have posted about this numerous times before. [snip]... That's a lot to invest in a cheap grinder to make it useable. If returning it had been an option, I would have done it.

Oh, my, this is not good news. I ordered the Oneway balancing kit today, it'll be here tomorrow (Thurs.). I guess I'll set it up and see what happens, perhaps I'll get lucky. Thanks for the info, it'll be ammunition if I decide to take the grinder back.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

The problem is just like ryan stated, I've been trying to tell people to have those grinders run in the store before taking them home.
The flanges used to be machined and fit perfectly square on the shaft, that is what holds the wheel straight and square, just for the sake of a few more pennies of profit, they now are selling these grinders with these stamped out flanges :mad:.
I have two grinders, the smaller one is a 60 year old Stanley, that just hums, sits loose on the bench and never moved, my other one is a 10" Taiwanese unit with the stamped out washers, when I went to the store I had them run the grinder, first one was walking (side to side wobble) second one was sitting still, but still not perfect I adjusted and fiddled around with it till it ran acceptable, it sat loose for a while on the bench, but I bolted it down so I had a unit to take along without all the loose pieces
The oneway balancer is a good setup, but doesn't fit every grinder, you also need wheels with a at least 1" opening for the balancer to fit through.

[Tom Godley]

I bought one from Sears -- most of the grinders you come across today retailing under $200.00 are very similar to one another if not the same.

The Sears looks to be the same as the Delta except for the quick connect hub. The design of the shaft is poor. On the Sears you need to use the washer that came with it to achieve the best results. My friend found the quick connect on the Delta to have its own problems - both of them have a very short shaft.


The big problem I ran into was with the Norton stones!! I had to return two sets before I received a set that would work -- and even these were not perfect!! It was unbelievable. They all had a side to side wobble - and this was confirmed by the support people where I purchased.

One was a white stone and the other was one of the blue stones (3x?) -- when I complained about the first set they just sent me out another. When I complained about the second set the technical department got involved and started to check the stock and found out that many were defective! They finally got me two that were fixable. So if you are having problems don't just assume it is the grinder. Plus the bushing/reducers on the Norton stones are plastic and slide around making everything even more problematic

Norton like everybody else is moving production out of the US and the quality has suffered as they try to compete :(

So now somthinge as simple as buying a grinder and stones is a pain!

[Ryan Baker]

It is certainly true that getting good stones can be problematic too. That's one place the Oneway balancing kit really helps, even on a good grinder. Some of the problems are the wheels, but some of the cheaper grinders are very poorly designed as well. Try before you buy from a store with a good return policy.

[Brent Smith]

One word.....Baldor!

[Don McIvor]

I bought my Delta VS 8" several years ago, and the wheels that came with it were visibly not flat. I called Delta and they sent me replacements that arrived within 2 days. While quality control could clearly have been better, I was impressed with Delta's rapid and courteous response.

The new wheels were an improvement, but still not great. I quickly moved on to Norton wheels, which are also not perfectly flat. One gets the idea that flat grinding stones are hard to cast. The Nortons worked well enough, and I eventually sprung for the Oneway balance system. This again was an improvement, but I still have a little, and acceptable, vibration.

Oh yeah--here's an aside. The little tool platform is junk. It'll serve for a month or two, but pretty quickly you'll want to upgrade to something wider and more substantial, or perhaps a jig system, if that's your preference.

[Kirk Miller]

I have the Delta VS but have only used it for a few months. It performed excellant out of the box, and has run great in the limited times I have used it.

[Ryan Baker]

One word.....Baldor!

I agree! I just haven't yet been able to justify the funds for that. Maybe one of these days.

[Jim Silva]

The problem with the Delta is not the wheels.

...the problem is with the inner flange washers and the way they meet the shaft. The shaft has a groove right where the inner washer sits. That washer actually seats up against a tiny step in the shaft (I forget the measurements now, but the step is something like under 10 thousandths). Combine the tiny step on the mating surface with the sloppy forming of the hole in the washer, and the result is that the washer sits crooked, partially over the step and partially not. (When new, there may be enough edge for the washer to sit flat, but the edge will soon wear away slightly and leave the washer sitting crooked again.) It is hard to explain, but easy to see in person. Perhaps the idea was to let the washer float and rely on the wheel to square it to the shaft. That is a bad design, given that the wheel hubs are even worse, and rely on multiple plastic, sloppy bushings to fill the large hub hole.



Ryan hit the nail on the head. Very poor design, I was very unhappy when I brought mine home but had no other alternative but to use it so I've used the same manner he described to address the issue.

[Michael Short]

I have the same Delta VS and have had problems with wobble as well. After much frustrastion with my grinder I started reading this forum and all of the talk about the cheap flanges and imperfect wheels I decided to try and see if dressing the sides of the wheel would help.

I used the diamond dressing tool that came with the grinder and used a platform to the side and I have to say that this helped the wobble considerably. It took the vibration out as well and is much more tolerable.

I dressed the outside a little and then moved to the inside and went back and forth taking of jus a little from each side.

You just need to take your time and be careful if you do this.

I agree with Leo that it is in the flanges and they could do a better job with the fit and tolerances on them.

[Jamie Straw]

... I decided to try and see if dressing the sides of the wheel would help.
[snip]
You just need to take your time and be careful if you do this.


I felt that last part bears repeating.:eek: Actually, you can grind on the side of the wheel, they even make a jig for it, but seems to be an "only when necessary" thing, and done with due caution. We did a tiny bit of side-grinding in class, can't remember which tool though. Lot's to absorb for an oldster like me.

Update: I now have the Woodcraft slow-speed grinder set up. I'll say it's much quieter than my old Craftsman! (Very old, probably 1950's) The original wheels were horrible (If I dressed the side, I'd probably end up with a 3/4" wheel instead of 1" :D ). I've balanced the new CGW wheels, the coard one wobbles pretty badly. The 120 grit, not much at all.

Re-ground my spindle gouge tonight, it doesn't look like any pictures I've seen, but seems to work, so I will go on in blissful ignorance.

[Gordon Seto]

I used the diamond dressing tool that came with the grinder and used a platform to the side ...


I think it is unsafe to grind on the side of the bench grinder sides. Don't know about the truing/dressing of the sides. Safety first, explosion of the wheel is hazardous.

[Michael Short]

Gordon,

I agree with you. I don't know that I would want to grind on the sides for that very reason. I made sure that I was very careful with light touches when dressing the sides. It took the wobble out and the wheels run alot more true now.

One should not have to do this, my suggestion is that if you don't own a delta vs already, not to own one period and look for a better made product and one with out cheap stamped out flanges.

Later.

[william croninger]

Been a few years since the last posting but will see if anyone is still watching this thread :-) I just changed wheels on my Delta 8" VS and the new Norton wobbled terribly. I removed the wheel, checked the shaft etc. w/o the wheel and later ran across the post here from Ryan Baker. As Mr Baker suggest, the inner flange seats very loosely. In desperation I switched the outer, machined spacer and the inner flange. So the machined spacer is now on the inside and the "wings" of the locking device fold against the dome of the domed flange. Put on a face shield, stood well away from the grinder and plugged it in. I've never heard this grinder run as quietly and the wheel seems to track very accurately, no perceptible wobble now. Anyone want to hazard a guess as to whether this is safe? I did sharpen two tools and all went well but would like to hear from more experienced folks on whether to go with this or one of the other options mentioned here. Thanks for any suggestions.

[Ryan Baker]

It's been a long time since i've had those quick-nuts on my grinder, so i'm trying to remember exactly what it looks like without going to look at the parts again. As long as things lock down securely, you are probably ok. For a couple dollars at ACE hardware you can pick up right-hand and left-hand hex nuts to replace the quick nuts and you won't have to worry about them coming off.

[Joe Bradshaw]

I had the same problem with my grinders. I have the Oneway balancing system. but it did not work on the Norton wheels. I turned my spacers out of a hardwood which helped a lot. I then bought the CBN wheels from Dway tools which solved all my runout/balancing problems.

[william croninger]

Ryan, thanks for the reply... sounds like a real good idea.
Bill

[Ron Radliff]

I reversed the flanges, replaced the original wheel with a Norton and replaced the plastic bushing with a machined metal bushing on mine. I'm still getting a bit of side to side wobble, but it's much better than when I started.

[Jamie Donaldson]

Most of the wheel wobble on any grinder can be tuned out by carefully HAND rotating the wheel a bit with the nuts and flanges hand tight, but loose enough to hand rotate the wheel on the motor shaft. I mark an index reference on the side of the wheel, hand rotate about an inch, then hand rotate to see it the wobble is better or worse. This run error is mainly due to the cheap plastic bushings as well as stamped flanges and cheap wheels, but I have tuned up many Woodcraft 8" grinders to eliminate any wobble before dressing the wheels to round.

[Don Geiger]

Your grinder is most likely fine. I have used the same grinder in the past and with a little tune up they work well. Many other turners use the same grinder and have benefitted from the following recommendations:

Many grinding wheels come with plastic bushings to make up the difference between the inside diameter of the hole in the wheel and the outside diameter of the axle of the grinder. If this is your case, I suggest ditching the plastic bushings that come with the wheels and replacing them with 1" o.d X 5/8" i.d. X 1" long steel headless drill bushings (available from McMaster-Carr, p.n. 8491A562 at: $9.60 each). The steel bushings provide a more solid mounting and position the wheel more perpendicularly to the axle.

When you install any wheel: you can use 3/4" o.d. paper sticky dots as shims placed between the edge of the cup washers and the sides of the wheel to correct for side to side wobble. First determine where the apex of the wobble exists by using a pencil to make tick marks on the both sides of each wheel about ¼ from the edge. Use these marks to determine where to place the sticky dots between the edge of the cup washer and the side of the wheel. Place them 180 degrees apart on both sides of each wheel until you correct the wobble (Note: I usuall start with a stack of 5 or 6). I've done this to many grinders and it takes me about 15 or 20 minutes.

Then use a wheel truing device (not just a hand held wheel dresser) to make the wheels truly concentric to the axle, flat across the width and also making the aggregate very level.

Do these few things and the side to side wobble will be corrected, vibration in the grinder will be significantly reduced and your tools will not bounce on the surface. You will see an improvement in the condition of the bevels and cutting edges of your tools. It will also eliminate the need purchase and install a wheel balancing system because you've corrected to excentriciities of the wheel.

It is a practice that I've used for quite some time and I first suggested it on SMC quite about a year ago. Many people have tried it and reported that it worked well for them. If you try it, please report back on SMC to let us know how it worked for you. Also let me know if I can be of any further assistance. Good luck!

Don Geiger

[william croninger]

Thanks Ron!

[william croninger]

Thank you Jamie

[william croninger]

Thanks Joe

[James Combs]

I got one from Lowe's a couple years back. It has a similar wobble but not enough to concern me. I did got through the dismount remount routine trying to mitigate it but to no avail. In the process I did note that it ran smooth as silk without the wheels. However, when I replace the wheels I will be going to premium or hopefully metal/diamond or metal/CBN wheels.