What do you think of a Laguna shaper

[Virgil Johnson]

I have been looking for a new shaper for some time and wondered about the Laguna Platium series model #MSH4000-0180.

Anyone have an opinion?

Virgil

[John Harden]

To the best of my knowledge, Laguna's Platinum series are imports from China or Taiwan, so the quality control will be a bit spotty.

However, having said that, one thing I like about Laguna is they use tend to use quality motors. Their website says that model comes with a Leeson motor. Motors don't get much better than Leeson or Baldor.

If you think about it, a shaper isn't terribly complicated unless it has VS, tilt, or a sliding table. Short of that, I'd argue that the two critical components are motor and fence. Motor is well covered, so that leaves the fence. Fence doesn't look bad having aluminum faces and micro adjust on both the infeed and outfeed side.

It looks like the largest spindle it'll handle is a 1". They also don't say whether you can get a 30mm or 1 1/4" spinde for it. If so, that would open up a lot more tooling resources to you.

3/4" tooling tends to be import stuff that can vary greatly when it comes to quality and performance. The up side on the 3/4" tooling is there is quite a bit of it out there, though to get the nice insert heads, you generally need a 30mm or 1 1/4" spindle.

All in all, it doesn't look like a bad machine. You might try to find someone who has one and ask them how shaper head or spindle changes are. if it is cumbersome, you'll be less likely to want to do it.

At 11,000 rpm, it also turns a little faster than most.

Regards,

John

[Virgil Johnson]

It was the fence that interested me most. (yes I did see the Leeson motor)
I thought about a Grizzy - nice price - but from what I read the fence is not the best.
I was looking at a Delta because of the fence but...well.

I have had one good experience Laguna - good machine and good customer service -and wondered if that was unique.

I am not a big time user of a shaper. More like occasional but I have to produce accurate work.

Laguna is offering $200 off the list price which makes it less expensive than a Delta.

I would rather have a machine that works for me than something that gives me another problem.

Virgil

[Peter Quinn]

Virgil, I have no experience with the Laguna platinum shapers, but from the looks of the pics it looks like an older style PM knock off, maybe a PM26? Its hard to be sure fro the one pick inside the cabinet. If so its a good basic design for medium duty and small shop work. With a 1" spindle you can bush up and spin most average 1 1/4" tooling like panel raisers, cabinet sets, rabbit heads, small molding heads, etc. In fact you can bush up from 3/4" too but you may suffer a bit more deflection or chatter if you push it. I prefer a machine with the 1 1/4" and 3/4" format, 1" tooling is nearly non existent at this point. 3HP is enough to handle most small shop shaping needs on stock under 2" though you might want a bit more if the work were continuous duty or heavy passes. The price seems fair for that weight class on a new machine, and the fence looks serviceable.

I don't agree with what John had to say about either the important parts of a shaper or tooling. I'n my mind the only truly important parts on a shaper are the spindle cartridge (makes it go in a true circle) and the height adjustment mechanism (it goes up and down smooth and precisely). A solid fence is a plus, and I wouldn't be without one, but frankly you could make a fence and hood from plywood scraps to serve every purpose if required, and you can replace the fence at any point. You cannot make your own spindle cartridge assembly and height mechanism unless you are a serious machinist. You are stuck with that aspect of whatever machine you select, and that is its core. Motors you can change like underwear, and while some may run longer than others, even the cheap ones spin smooth enough to turn a shaper.

As far as tooling? you can bush up as noted, or you can buy EXCELLENT 3/4" tooling from a variety of manufacturers, including Infinity, Freeborn (yes, freeborn makes a complete line of 3/4" tooling), LRH, Leitz, Schmidt, Amana and others. There are a few cutter types that only come in 1 1/4", but there are a heck of a lot of good options in the 3/4" range should you choose to stick there. Don't know if these opinions are at all helpful?

I can tell you that I have an older Delta 3HP 3/4" shaper in my shop and I nearly laugh out loud when I hear people say "You have to get 1 1/4" spindle to do anything". I'm thinking "Geez, I wish I had known I couldn't do any work with a 3/4" spindle before I did all the work I have done with that little shaper, because that would have saved me a lot of work!":D

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Virgil, I believe the Laguna shaper does come with a 1 1/4" spindle.

The three most common spindle sizes are 3/4", 1 1/4" and 30mm.

The Laguna appears to have a nice micrometer adjustment on the fences, and the Euro type shaper guards which are very user friendly.

The 7,000RPM spindle speed is the one you would use the most, it is ideal for cutters in the 100 to 125mm diameter range.

I use a head with two insert knives, available from CMT/Dimar/Felder etc, the knives are in the $20 to $35 range per pair, and produce excellent results in solid wood. (Better than carbide in my opinion).

If you buy an insert head and want to use for hand fed get a MAN rated head (they have chip limitors), or you can get a MEC head if you're only going to use it with a power feeder.

That's another point, order a power feeder with your new Laguna shaper, the increase in accuracy, safety and finish aren't to be discounted. A 1/2 HP unit would be ideal.

I would pick this shaper as opposed to a Delta or other Chaiwanese machine.

Regards, Rod.

[Cameron Reddy]

Don't forget the PM2700:

http://www.me.com/ro/cameronreddy/Galleries/100071/PM2700-20fence/web.jpg?ver=12609399920001

[John Harden]

Hi Virgil, I believe the Laguna shaper does come with a 1 1/4" spindle.

Rod, that would be totally cool, but where did you get this information?

Not disagreeing with you, but I looked at Laguna's website and there's no mention of a 1 1/4" spindle, either standard or as an option.

My wife is the brains in the family, so I may well have missed it.

Regards,

John

[jim tracy]

here are the specs for Model Number: MSH4000-0180:

Motor: 3 HP Leeson Motor 220 volt
Main Table: 22" x 28 1/2" cast iron
Extension Wing: 9" x 28 1/2" cast iron
Table Height: 34"
Working Surface: 31" x 28 1/2" w/ ext.
Spindle speed: 7,000/11,000rpm(fwd & rev)
Insert Diameter: 1 3/8", 2 3/4", 4", 5 1/2"
Spindle Diameter: 3/4" and 1" included
Router Collets 1/4" and 1/2" included
Spindle Travel: 3"
Tooling Height (under nut): 3 1/2"
Maximum Toll Diameter: 5 1/2"
Fence: 15" x 4" ea. (infeed & outfeed)
Miter Slot: 3/8" x 3/4"
Dust Port: 4"
Switch: magnetic and reversing
Gross Weight 450 lbs.

[Rod Sheridan]

Rod, that would be totally cool, but where did you get this information?

Not disagreeing with you, but I looked at Laguna's website and there's no mention of a 1 1/4" spindle, either standard or as an option.

My wife is the brains in the family, so I may well have missed it.

Regards,

John

Hi John, maybe I'm wrong, however I seem to remember watching the video, and there was a mention of the optional spindle.

Maybe my memory is wrong, have a look at the video and confirm........Regards, Rod.

[richard poitras]

Give Tim at Laguna a call I just got a LT18 from him. He will work with you and answer any questions you may have.

Tim Lory
Phone: (949) 474-1200 Ext.9617

[Rick Fisher]

Its nice to hear of a happy Laguna customer.. I have a Laguna machine, bought it from Benny. He is awesome to deal with..

I have a General Int. 3hp shaper.. my biggest complaint with it is the fence... its a goofy setup... I would not buy it again..

I do however have a 1hp Maggi Feeder mounted on it . That is a beauty .. I highly recommend it..

My shaper takes 3/4" cutters.. I buy Freud.. mainly because I get them wholesale at work.. So they are priced well.. They are made in Italy and seem very good quality..

I would not hesitate to buy a Laguna product.. but would make sure your getting enough machine.. If you are, great..

[Virgil Johnson]

I was wondering a bit about the "lift" mechanism. One of the things I had read about Grizzy and Jet shapers was that once you set the height of the spindle it changes slightly when the lock is applied.

The Delta was said to hold steady.

I was looking at a General just because it is N American made but the reviews weren't so good and it comes with a half inch spindle.

In the end I guess we all have to buy Asian?

virgil

[John Lanciani]

"In the end I guess we all have to buy Asian?"

Nope, we just have to decide what is important to us. Look here, http://www.rojekusa.com/PHP/shapers.php , Ive had my FSN300 for a few years and it is one of my favorite machines to use. Give them a call and ask for Todd, you might be pleasantly surprised at what it costs to not have to buy Asian.


John

[Virgil Johnson]

I will call John. Mainly since I could not find a price list online.

The real issue is is this machine a good one?

Why do you like it?

good fence?
good spindle lift lockdown?
etc.?

Virgil

[John Lanciani]

Granted that I bought a loaded machine (tilt spindle, sliding table) but the basic machine has most of the features that make it a nice machine; 5 speeds, 3/4" & 1 1/4" interchangeable spindles, huge table opening with several stepped reducers, 5" of spindle travel, dust collection above and below the table, automatic motor brake, and a rock solid fence. If you give Todd a call, say "Hi" for me, he's sold me 3 machines so far...

John

[Joe Jensen]

I have been using shapers for 30 years. I am now of the opinion that the fence is one of the most important considerations. I bought my current shaper new in 1990. It's a made in the USA Powermatic model 26. Nice solid machine with a Baldor motor, but I hate the fence. The new PM2700 shaper has an excellent fence. I have a Felder Combo machine on order and one the upgrades I'm most excited about the the Aigner fence upgrade I ordered with the Felder combo.

The PM fence is frustrating in that it's nearly impossible to move one fence and lock it down with any predictability. If shopping in this price point, I'd make the fence one of your key decision factors.

[Mike Heidrick]

I own the T1002S Laguna shaper. Bought it this past summer. It has the nicest 5hp Baldor reliance motor I have ever seen. The machine itself is made by stomano/Hickmann in Bulgaria. The fence is a nice euro model.

I am writing to comment on the packaging that Laguna did for my shaper. It was fully wooden crated and had a sheet and a half od OSB in the crate. Everting was securey fastened and padded and shrink wrapped/saran wrapped.

If you want to know more about my shaper let me know and I will go into more detail. Otherwise I will save it for a future write up post.

If you can swing a T800 Laguna shaper maybe that will get you into their intro Euro line. I think you will be much happier with that fence setup.

I also own a 5hp Delta shaper. It is night and day different in class from the T1002S.

[Rick Fisher]

Mike.. you should post some pic's of your Laguna shaper. :)

I like your shaper. :rolleyes:

One time, I found the Stomano website in Belgium.. If you have a link to it, let me know.

[Johnnyy Johnson]

It looks alot like my Delta 3hp.