Disston Question

[Doug Donnell]

I know nothing of hand saws, but I have an interest in picking up decent examples of hand tools that I may utilimately use. While letting my wife drag me to an antique store last weekend, I wandered into a new vendor's booth that had not been there before. He had a few old tools including some Disston saws that appeared to be in better shape than the Crackerbarrel wall hangers I typically see at antique stores.

One in particular seemed in pretty good shape except it needed sharpening and there were some slight waves in the blade about 1/3 down the blade from the tote (is the handle on a saw called a tote?). They are noticable but not severe. The saw is a larger saw of a design that I would call a capenters saw, perhaps a panel saw? I do not know if it was a rip or cross cut saw. I was struck by how thin the blade appeared to be compared to modern cheap examples at the borgs.

The price was $12, which almost seemed cheap enough to buy it as the aforementioned wall hanger. Does this sound like a buy or a pass? Can a newb like me get any educational use out of it (sharpening, straightening, sawing practice) or will this frustrate me and turn me off of hand sawing? Can I reasonably expect to straighten the saw?

I realize that without photos or better descriptions that it will be impossible to give me anything more than the most general of guidance, but any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.

[Jim Koepke]

Learning to sharpen a saw is always a good excuse to by an old beat up saw if the price is good.

Getting bows and bends out of a blade is a bit beyond my current expertise. Heck, sharpening is beyond my expertise, but that doesn't keep me from trying. Actually have had some good results with the sharpening.

jim

[David Gendron]

For $12, I would buy it, take pics of it, post the pics here and absorb all comments and guidence you can get... I even think that at $12 you can bargain it for $10 or less by pointing out every thing you allready notiiced!

[Robert Rozaieski]

If the blade isn't straight, I'd pass. I've been sharpening my own saws for years and it is not a difficult skill to learn. However, straightening a bent or kinked saw blade is not a task to take on yourself without any guidance from some one there with you. Unlike sharpening, IMO, straightening a bent saw is an art best left to someone that knows what they are doing, lest you remove all the tension from the saw and make it suitable for nothing more than cutting up for scrapers. There are plenty of straight saws out there that can be had for $5-$15 at yard sales, antique malls, flea markets and ebay. Dull is no big deal. Broken teeth are even no big deal. But a bent plate is something to pass on unless you really know how to fix it. Otherwise, it's, as you say, a Crackerbarrel decoration.

[Richard Niemiec]

What Robert said. There's just too many good saws out there, just keep your eyes open, and eyeball them down the spine. Don't worry too much about surface rust, so long as there's no pitting, and even cracked or chipped handles can be repaired satisfactorily. I'd pass. There's a 7, 12, D-12, D-8 or D-28 out there with your name on it somewhere..... for $5 or $10......

[David Keller NC]

You might want to read up on Disston at the Disstonian Institute (http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/) and Pete Taran's Vintage Saws site (http://www.vintagesaws.com/). There is much to know about Disston, but one comment about pricing - particularly with Disston, the fair price for the saw is very, very sensitive to era that it was made, the model number, and of course the condition.

You can get Disstons made in the 1940's or 1950's all day long at flea markets and other outlets for $20 or so, but there's a reason. The handles (yeah, they're actually called "totes" on saws as well as planes) are not acceptable from both the aesthetic standpoint and the user standpoint. These saws were made as cheaply as possible as Disston went into steep decline, and the totes have really ugly and uncomfortable sharp edges. They were also generally made of the cheapest wood at hand - apple and rosewood had long ago dissapeared from the product line.

That said, you can take a rasp and file to a tote from this time period and shape it to a much more pleasing and useful shape. Of course, the fact that will take you a couple of hours or more is partly why the Disston saws from 1900-1917 go for more like $100 to as much as $275 for a superb condition D12 - these saws were produced near the zenith of the Disston company, and have superbly shaped totes of apple, and many of the models had the best steel available in the blades.

[Don C Peterson]

I dunno, I've had pretty good success at straightening out saws using Bob Smalser's method.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=63325

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=66090

I wouldn't bother with serious bends, but a small wave is no big deal to fix. I just use a ball peen hammer and a plate of 5/8" scrap steel as an anvil.

IMO $12 is just an OK price for a saw that has a bend or otherwise needs lots of attention to get it up and running, unless it's a D12 or some other highly sought after model.

[Michael Faurot]

The price was $12, which almost seemed cheap enough to buy it as the aforementioned wall hanger. Does this sound like a buy or a pass? Can a newb like me get any educational use out of it (sharpening, straightening, sawing practice) or will this frustrate me and turn me off of hand sawing? Can I reasonably expect to straighten the saw?


If you're looking for a saw that you intend to put to use, pass on anything with waves or kinks in it. As others have mentioned, straightening a saw is not a simple process. I've tried it several times and have not been successful.

Sharpening, however, is relatively easy to pick up. You will need some tools:



Saw vise. You can find these on eBay. If you want a new one check out Tools for Working Wood (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/indextool.mvc?prodid=GT-SAWV).
Files (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=EE-555-SF.XX&Category_Code=TH).
A saw set (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=MS-SAWSET.XX&Category_Code=TH).

[Doug Donnell]

Thanks everyone, great comments. I actually did hit the Disstonianinstitute after my initial search on "Disston," but I can not remember enough about the saw to ID it. I'll think about it some more and may offer a reduced price to pick up a sharpeing practice saw.

Of note, there was also a Disston backsaw with a blade that must have been 30 iinches long. It was priced seperately from the miter box (metal frame) that was on the floor that I assumed was purchased with it. It was not in as good a shape as the handsaw, but was a unique piece. It didn't interest me enough to look closely at it but some of you Disston enthusiests might know something about it...

[Don C Peterson]

I have several of those longish Disston back saws. Mine range from 26" to 29" actual blade length. They are very handy in a miter box, the weight and the length of stoke are great. They aren't hard to find and in fact they tend to cost less than the shorter back saws for some reason.

[Mitch Barker]

Coincidentally, I was also thinking about a hand saw purchase to rip some 6/4 x 7" walnut. I usually let my wood supplier resaw, joint and thickness, but I think I'll try it myself this time.

In looking at e-bay, is there a definitive way to determine if the saw is a rip saw? I looked at the Disston institute, and for some models (.e.g D-115) it was available in rip and crosscut. For other models, it doesn't say.

Assuming that the vendor can count teeth per inch easier than he can visually determine how the teeth were filed, is it safe to assume that under a certain TPI it is a rip saw?

Thanks for any info.

[Don C Peterson]

I don't think there is a "rule" about this, but I don't recall ever seeing a cross cut saw (not counting the "misery whip" type two man saws) with a TPI count of less than about 6. Of course there are plenty of rip saws with high TPI counts though...

I usually don't worry too much if a saw is filed rip or x-cut because most of them need jointing and re-filing anyway.

[Don C Peterson]

Oh yeah, at least with Disston, the model was not indicative of either TPI or rip/x-cut. There may be some specialty models where this is the case but certainly not for the general purpose hand saws and back saws.

[Richard Niemiec]

In looking at e-bay, is there a definitive way to determine if the saw is a rip saw? I looked at the Disston institute, and for some models (.e.g D-115) it was available in rip and crosscut. For other models, it doesn't say.



You tell by looking at the teeth. Hard to do from an ebay picture, but it really does not matter, you just refile the teeth rip. If the seller is not informed enough to specify, you take your chances. Personally, I don't buy saws on ebay unless I know the seller, and prefer to eyeball before I buy.

[Jim Koepke]

I am with Richard on this one.

There are too many old saws out in the wild to buy one uninspected.

To many old antique shop owners old saws are for painting.

jim