waterlox

[gary butcher]

I'm always trying new finishing stuff as it's a real PITA to get it right for me, so last time I was in the woodshop I saw they had small packets of waterlox gloss so I picked one up to try. I'd read about it and people seemed to like it but I wasn't expecting the results..... :eek:

I'm impressed! I slapped it on some African Blackwood headphone cups. It went on easy, smoothed itself and after a couple of days letting it's thick coat set I gave it a quick micromesh rub and the stuff is like glass. It's exactly what I was looking for. I wish I'd taken a little more time and filled the grain with CA glue first as then it'd be perfect. For my first experience with it though, I now know what to expect and will be picking more up soon. Stinks a bit but I think it'll worth it in the long run if it's durable enough. The headphones will be handled heavily and exposed to all weather so we'll see. Looks promising so far :)

Aside from CA, is there a good grain filler that's transparent like CA? I'm still a bit of a n00b at this stuff and have gaps in my knowledge you could drive a tank through.

[Neal Clayton]

they make a waterlox with a UV additive, btw, see their website. from talking to the person from waterlox registered here, same as the original varnish just for outdoor use.

the only gotcha with waterlox is you gotta stick with the gloss or the satin. the "original" is advertised as a sealer and not good for much more than that, it scratches/dents pretty easily if you build a film with it, compared to the other two varieties. that and the shelf life. you gotta break it down into smaller cans or use some marbles. if the can isn't full it will gel up inside the can rather quickly (in a few weeks).

[Howard Acheson]

>>> the "original" is advertised as a sealer

Actually, Waterlox Original is a brand name and consists of the Gloss, Satin and Sealer/Finish. Both the Gloss (formally Gym Floor Finish) and the Satin produce a hard durable surface. The Sealer/Finish is softer but works very well as a wipe-on finish.

[Prashun Patel]

Wow, that's the first time I'm hearing that the sealer/finish is not appropriate as a hard final coat. I used it on a bench for my father 2 years ago, and he beats that thing up, and it looks pretty darn good.

The only caveat with that product is it's advertised as semigloss, and it looks pretty darn glossy to me.

[gary butcher]

yeah, the gloss is really like a mirror, once the little inevitable nubs are rubbed off anyway. I was so happy with it that as soon as I finished posting I went down, sanded it smooth, superglued the grain and recoated it. It should be dry in a few days. Dry enough to work on anyway. Just a beautiful finish if a non poly/epoxy gloss is what you're after as this looks like water and the CA does a great job filling grain while keeping a clear grain appearance. The blackwood is looking great.

Can't wait to get these finished. gotta make the blackwood cup hangers next.

[Chip Schaffner]

Just to clarify a couple of items noted here regarding Waterlox Finishes.

If you would like a medium sheen, use the Sealer/Finish for all coats required. (3-4 depending upon if it a hard wood or a soft wood. Additional coats may be desired if wiping the varnish.) Our Original Sealer/Finish is the only finish in our line that mellows with age. It will start off at about a 75 degree gloss level the day it's finished; and will fade to a 50-55 degree gloss in 4-6 months.

If a lower sheen is desired, the last coat applied should be our Waterlox Original Satin Finish. Using our Original Satin Finish will produce a gloss level of about 20-25 degrees.

If a higher gloss is desired the last coat applied should be our Waterlox Original High Gloss Finish. Our Original High Gloss Finish will produce a finish that has about an 85 degree gloss level.

With the exception of our Marine Finish, there is no diference in the durability of the finish regardless of which product is used. All are equally suitible as a finish/top coat, it simply depends on the gloss level that is chosen.

For example, our Original Satin Finish is our Original Sealer/Finish with a flattening agent (pigment) added to cut the gloss level. The Original High Gloss Finish is our Original Sealer Finish with an additional resin to increase the gloss level.

We do not add a UV inhibitor to our finishes. Direct UV light will break down any finish over time. Our Waterlox Original Marine finishing system is formulated as a traditional Tung oil spar varnish. It is made from Tung oil and a special resin mixture that forms a protective and elastic finish against sun and salt/fresh water exposure. Our Waterlox Original Marine Finish when used as a finishing system in conjunction with Waterlox Original Marine Sealer penetrates and waterproofs and reflects the UV instead of absorbing it.

When the gloss begins to fade, this is the key to knowing that the UV rays are beginning to affect the finish and that it’s time to re-coat. Sanding down to bare wood is not necessary to refinish the surface, simply clean the surface and apply another coat of Waterlox Original Marine Finish (view our product bulletin). Keep in mind however, that if proper maintenance is not followed, and the finish is left to degrade too long, the film can peel. This is due to the film shrinkage from the UV light.

Hope this helps.

Chip Schaffner - Waterlox Coatings

[Neal Clayton]

Just to clarify a couple of items noted here regarding Waterlox Finishes.

If you would like a medium sheen, use the Sealer/Finish for all coats required. (3-4 depending upon if it a hard wood or a soft wood. Additional coats may be desired if wiping the varnish.) Our Original Sealer/Finish is the only finish in our line that mellows with age. It will start off at about a 75 degree gloss level the day it's finished; and will fade to a 50-55 degree gloss in 4-6 months.

If a lower sheen is desired, the last coat applied should be our Waterlox Original Satin Finish. Using our Original Satin Finish will produce a gloss level of about 20-25 degrees.

If a higher gloss is desired the last coat applied should be our Waterlox Original High Gloss Finish. Our Original High Gloss Finish will produce a finish that has about an 85 degree gloss level.

With the exception of our Marine Finish, there is no diference in the durability of the finish regardless of which product is used. All are equally suitible as a finish/top coat, it simply depends on the gloss level that is chosen.

For example, our Original Satin Finish is our Original Sealer/Finish with a flattening agent (pigment) added to cut the gloss level. The Original High Gloss Finish is our Original Sealer Finish with an additional resin to increase the gloss level.

We do not add a UV inhibitor to our finishes. Direct UV light will break down any finish over time. Our Waterlox Original Marine finishing system is formulated as a traditional Tung oil spar varnish. It is made from Tung oil and a special resin mixture that forms a protective and elastic finish against sun and salt/fresh water exposure. Our Waterlox Original Marine Finish when used as a finishing system in conjunction with Waterlox Original Marine Sealer penetrates and waterproofs and reflects the UV instead of absorbing it.

When the gloss begins to fade, this is the key to knowing that the UV rays are beginning to affect the finish and that it’s time to re-coat. Sanding down to bare wood is not necessary to refinish the surface, simply clean the surface and apply another coat of Waterlox Original Marine Finish (view our product bulletin). Keep in mind however, that if proper maintenance is not followed, and the finish is left to degrade too long, the film can peel. This is due to the film shrinkage from the UV light.

Hope this helps.

Chip Schaffner - Waterlox Coatings

with the flattener are you not adding more solids to the mix?

and with the high gloss adding more resin?

it would seem these additives have to have some effect on the properties of the cured result.

in using two of the three on floors, i've noticed that the semi-gloss tends to scratch/wear after a few months of foot traffic somewhat easily. satin, not so much, it seems to retain the original sheen indefinitely.

[Scott Holmes]

I would say the solids in gloss are not that much differnet from the satin usually the flattening agents % are very low. In shellac dead flat is only about 10-12%.

That is why satin mixed with gloss gets you closer to satin; than to semi-gloss.

[Chip Schaffner]

Sorry for the confusion as I might have been to generalized with my previous statement.

Without going into too much detail, chemically, you are correct, there are slight differences between each one of our finishes.

The flattening agents in the Original Satin Finish do raise the solids slightly, although the percentage of flattening agent is very low.

The Original High Gloss Finish is higher in solids than the Original Sealer Finish as we add an additional resin so that the gloss retention is better and this creates a slightly harder finish. This product was formerly named Waterlox Gym Finish.

The fact that you are not seeing as much wear in the Original Satin Finish versus the Original Sealer Finish is probably due to the fact that the lower the gloss level, the less scratching/marring your eye will pick up. The mars and scratches can be approximately the same gloss level as the product itself. In most cases, it is not so much that the Original Sealer Finish (semi-gloss) is "wearing out" it is just that you can see the scratches easier in a glossier finish.

Chip Schaffner - Waterlox Coatings

[gary butcher]

I've been thinking of buying a tin of the sealer/finish. With all the comments about it gelling or crusting in the can, I was wondering whether something along the lines of a hospital saline drip bag with tubes and tap wouldn't be ideal as a dispenser. The bags are airtight and self evacuating as the level goes down. The wet stuff is always at the bottom exit and the tube/tap could be used very accurately to put the right amount of the stuff wherever you needed it without the hassle of pouring from a can and getting gummed up lids and oxidation.

I can't see any reason it wouldn't work aside from getting the stuff in the bag to begin with. I'll see if the hospital here has any bags and tubing going spare and give it a try.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/Iv1-07_014.jpg

a drip to make your wood feel better :rolleyes:

[Chip Schaffner]

It would be interesting to see if this works. Just make sure that the plastic used is fluorinated.

According to our container provider, Fluorination prevents container paneling, reduces chemical permeation, odor emission, and prevents oxygen from contacting the finish. The issue is the solvent. Fluorination seals up the holes and fibers of the plastic mesh.

A good test may be to fill the bag with mineral spirits and see if there is a loss over time. Weigh once filled, then again after 1-2-3 months.

"The process of fluorination exposes the surfaces of plastics and other materials to fluorine. Hydrogen atoms on the exposed surfaces are replaced with fluorine atoms creating a permanent fluorocarbon barrier on all exposed surfaces."

Hope this helps.

Chip Schaffner - Waterlox

[Henry Ambrose]

After opening, I stand my Waterlox cans upside down. If they crust, the crust is at the bottom so does not interfere with use.

Another solution, If you want to keep finishes fresh, is to divide into small metal or glass containers full to the top to exclude any air. Baby food jars are a good and easily found container. Open one and use it up then move to the next one. Obviously, you have to be careful with the glass. But that's not that hard to do.

[Alan Lightstone]

You would have to use non-vented IV tubing (pretty common, but necessary), otherwise the IV bag will fill up with air.

[Paul Saffold]

I use Bloxogen. When I ran out of Bloxogen,I used propane for a few days. I'm more comfortable with the Bloxogen.
Paul