Why I like a shaper over the router...

[Cameron Reddy]

I'm in the process of selling a small shaper and taking delivery of a new PM2700. I was telling someone why I like a shaper over a router and I decided that I'd make it a separate post.

Here is what I said:

I went this way instead of a router table. And I'm very glad I did. Just hold a shaper cutter in your hand and you will know all you need to know. The router bit weighs a few ounces. I just got a crown moulding cutter that is 3 1/2" tall and weighs several pounds... There is just no comparison. Router bits seem like toys to me. http://www.me.com/ro/cameronreddy/Galleries/100065/_CDR3228/web.jpg?ver=12608502080001

Shaper cutters can be VERY expensive, precisely because there is so much more metal and cutting surface... but look what that tells you about the capabilities of the machine! Yet, I rummaged around Amazon long enough that I found Freud cutters at huge discounts ($450 sets for $225). The Amana cutter shown above was $179 less 20% Bing cash back. I've also seen drawers of shaper cutters for sale here and there. Literally several thousand dollars worth of cutters for a song. Oh, and people get cutters resharpened over and over again... And there are "insert" cutters that have interchangeable knife inserts. This can be a very inexpensive way to get a lot of profiles.

And then there is the POWER FEEDER. It is the raison d’être to get a shaper.

One, it is amazingly safe. You set the feeder literally an inch from the cutter and it keeps the wood moving and nailed to the table and fence. And I mean NAILED. Oh, and you can position the feeder to press the wood with it's edge on the table and its face against the fence (as will be done with the big crown cutter above).

Two, because of one, the cut is vastly superior. I made a bunch of moulding for my home, and when fed by hand, it was hard, impossible really, to keep even pressure and movement on the wood to keep the cut perfect. With the feeder, I was getting 8' lengths that didn't need any further attention. The cuts were just perfect.

Beyond the feeder, the shaper is so much more flexible. It reverses the direction of the cut. Can still do router bits. The world of cutters opens like the heavens. People who think that there are lots of router bits available have never looked into shaper cutters!

The dust collection is also worlds different. Any shaper will have at least one full 4" port. As a result, a much larger percentage of the fine dust is collected with a powerful DC. You simply can't do that with a router system. Because they are made for shop vacs, they have puny 2 1/2 inch dust ports.

And on the issue of power. A 3 1/2 hp router is NOT 3 1/2 hp. It's at most 2 hp. And I would put a 1 1/2 hp "real" motor up against a router motor any day. That, and the cutter develops so much more inertia with its size.

But beware... A shaper will change the way you think about woodworking.

Do you get the idea that I like shaper cutters?

[Glen Butler]

I agree. The shaper is definitely my favorite tool in the shop. There is nothing better than sticking a piece of wood into the feeder and have it come out ready to go on the other side.

[Chip Lindley]

Cameron, I DO believe you are SOLD on shapers! Can't say I blame you! But, you're probably preaching to the choir here. I have both! Four shapers, and one router lift in my TS wing.

As you mention, there are heavier operations which shapers are much more suited to. Universal router motors are only for intermittent duty. But, many smaller operations are performed easier (and cheaper) on a router table. Then there is the gray area which rail/stile and panel-raising router bits, etc. fill. For short runs with miminum investment, this may be the only way to go for many on a limited budget.

I LOVE my shapers! But, it is hard to DIS router tables completely. They have their place!

[Cameron Reddy]

... [A router table] may be the only way to go for many on a limited budget. ...


Ah... but what if you can get a shaper for LESS than a router table set up? :):):)

http://www.me.com/ro/cameronreddy/Galleries/100013/_CDR3176/web.jpg?ver=12604621560001

I love the saying on your logo, BTW!

[Mike Cruz]

Funny, to those who make cabinets, sure, a shaper is invaluable. Oddly enough, I hate both! I will make every effort to use a router (without a table) whenever possible. Yes, I've used both. Just never happy to use either. Odd (to me) that you like the shaper the best out of any of you tools, Glen. Not that it shouldn't be YOUR favorite, just that it IS your favorite, and I dislike using it so. Really, I'm not pooing on those who like them. I just find it interesting how folks can like them so much.

That said, they are certainly a must for a cabinet shop. I can't see how you could be without one, or how you would make all the doors on a daily basis with a router table...wow, that would be tedious.

[Johnnyy Johnson]

I to like the shaper...But what about the low speed RPM when using the 1/4" bits?

[glenn bradley]

I to like the shaper...But what about the low speed RPM when using the 1/4" bits?

Limited success reported on using high speed router bits on low speed shapers. The cutter size on the shaper takes care of some of the speed factor, I'm sure. They are rockin' machines for that kind of work.

I'm just a hobbyist so the cutter cost ratio doesn't pan out for me. Fortunately, being a hobbyist, my needs are lower and can easily be met by the router table because I just know I would try to shoehorn a shaper into the shop if the need came up ;-) If I was doing kitchens, or really any high output repeated cut, I would be looking for one. Great machines.

[John Harden]

Cameron, I understand your points about shapers, but router tables were never designed or intended to compete. Two very different animals.

Where router tables excel is in spinning small profile bits at their optimum, high speed. Small diameter router bits can be easily and safely hand fed, which is why you don't find many router set ups with power feeders. You simply don't need them.

I would offer that many router bits push the upper limits on what you can safely do on a router table, and in terms of performance, particularly with large bits. Nice thing is these large profile router bits tend to work really well in a shaper at the lower speeds offered there. I own some large profile bits that I'd much prefer to run in a shaper with a PF.

Not anti-shaper here. I own a 5 hp, rear tilting, infinitely variable speed shaper that will spin from 1500 to over 19,000 rpm's. It has a monster power feeder attached and is a very slick setup.

Has it replaced my router table? Not at all. The two are intended for very different uses.

With some searching, I can find multi-insert shaper heads that will create very small coves and round overs (1/8-1/2"), but unless I'm in a production environment, I'll just run these small profiles on my router table where I get excellent results.

If I had 100 feet of small profile moulding to run, I agree with you that that router bit in a shaper w/PF would give better, more consistent results. This is where the shaper spindle spinning at high rpm for these small bits really shines. Most shapers though top out at 10,000 rpm, which gives ho-hum results with small bits. For 10' of small profile moulding, I'd just use the router table.

Regards,

John

[Jim Foster]

You'll have to keep us posted on your first experiences with this shaper! I do not like using a router table myself, and would also like to get a shaper with a power feed in the near future.

[Doug Shepard]

But how da heck do I cram a shaper in my TS extension:confused::confused:

[Derek Gilmer]

But how da heck do I cram a shaper in my TS extension:confused::confused:
Very carefully :)

[Chip Lindley]

Hi Again Cameron! Glad you are getting a great deal on the pricy PM2700.

Been There, Dun That Too. I won't/can't buy machinery that is not a bonifide Bargain! I consider all my *gloats* as Blessings. I am very fortunate. Otherwise I would be doing withOUT.

[Cameron Reddy]

Wow, Chip. You are the bargain MASTER! Amazing!

Doug. You are clearly a wuss! A real man would have no trouble with that. :):)

John, that is an excellent explanation of the difference between the machines.

Again, however, I posit that REAL men know what is what:http://www.me.com/ro/cameronreddy/Galleries/100065/_CDR3228/web.jpg?ver=12608502080001 :D:D:D

Come on over to my house and lift that crown cutter. You'll give your router table to the girl scouts! :)

Seriously, though, I find it fascinating that that crown cutter impresses me so. There is something visceral to such a massive hunk of steel...

[Josiah Bartlett]

But how da heck do I cram a shaper in my TS extension:confused::confused:
If you have a Unisaw and a Delta HD shaper, they are exactly the same height with the same size table. You just bolt them together. I believe you can do the same things with two powermatics and two grizzlys.

[Chip Lindley]

Did I mention that I wear an old Kevlar vest at the shaper? (given to me by my law enforcement Bro.n Law) That Heavy Metal can explode into shrapnel if a brazed cutter fails. Wood can explode, as a raised panel did with me, when there was honeycombing in the stock!

Don't be TOO MACHO! Beware!

[Rod Sheridan]

But how da heck do I cram a shaper in my TS extension:confused::confused:

Doug, see the link below.

http://www.hammer-canada.ca/ca-us/products/saw-shapers/b3-winner-comfort.html&zoom=true

Couldn't be simpler, which is why I ordered one to replace my General saw and shaper............Rod

[Richard Dragin]

Did I mention that I wear an old Kevlar vest at the shaper? (given to me by my law enforcement Bro.n Law) That Heavy Metal can explode into shrapnel if a brazed cutter fails. Wood can explode, as a raised panel did with me, when there was honeycombing in the stock!

Don't be TOO MACHO! Beware!

I think that's why I see them on CL all the time.

[Peter Quinn]

I hear you Cameron. I'm a shaper fan too, but I like my router table for lots of things as well. The two are very complimentary.

I love the shaper for lots of things, but I HATE running crown molding on the shaper, just not the tools strong suit. I think you should seriously consider starting to look for a small molder to round out your arsenal. We have an older version of this at work: http://www.weinigusa.com/products/moulders/unimat/ugold/main.htm#.

Does a great job with crown moldings!:D First time you run a crown through a molder is the last time you will ever consider doing it on a shaper. Kind of like raised panels on the shaper versus the router table.

Maybe one of these fits better in a small shop?
http://www.logosol.com/planers/?

[Cameron Reddy]

Those Molders are impressive! Very cool to do all four sides in one swell foop.

[Glen Butler]

Funny, to those who make cabinets, sure, a shaper is invaluable. Oddly enough, I hate both! I will make every effort to use a router (without a table) whenever possible. Yes, I've used both. Just never happy to use either. Odd (to me) that you like the shaper the best out of any of you tools, Glen. Not that it shouldn't be YOUR favorite, just that it IS your favorite, and I dislike using it so. Really, I'm not pooing on those who like them. I just find it interesting how folks can like them so much.

That said, they are certainly a must for a cabinet shop. I can't see how you could be without one, or how you would make all the doors on a daily basis with a router table...wow, that would be tedious.

Hmm funny, yes I am a cabinet maker.

[Rod Sheridan]

I'm in the process of selling a small shaper and taking delivery of a new PM2700. I was telling someone why I like a shaper over a router and I decided that I'd make it a separate post.

?

Hi Cameron, I also like a shaper, and am replacing my present shaper with a sliding table/tilting spindle model.

I've never missed not having a router table, and don't own a router unless you count my E.C. Emmerich cordless model:D.

The shaper is a given, and I mostly use HSS knives in an insert head, superb finish, less costly than router bits.

Regards, Rod.

[Karl Brogger]

Kind of like raised panels on the shaper versus the router table.

Ever run panels though multi head moulder? Now that's awesome. Fast and they come out sanded.



A router and a shaper are hardly even the same game. Just about anything a router can in a fixed position, a shaper can do a million times better. I've regretted every time I done something with a router that I could've bought a cutter to do on a shaper.

[Cameron Reddy]

Are you guys seeing my pictures?

I ask because I've tried to post pictures to a thread over at Garage Jorunal http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=690770#post690770 and they are telling me they can't see the pictures there or even the pictures I've posted here!

Help! :confused::confused::confused:

Cameron

[Mike Cruz]

Nope, can't see 'em....sorry...