nail guns or hammers safer?

[Tim Cleary]

This may be a better question for the JLC guys, but I was wondering if anyone is aware of any statistics on the relative safety or injury rate of nail guns vs. hammers. I do have nail gun safety stats but not hammers.

The reason I ask is that one of the habitat chapters I work with has a no nail gun policy. As someone who has used nail guns forever, I find this endlessly annoying - anyone remember assembling stud walls by hand? Ugh.

But they claim it is a safety issue - can anyone prove otherwise? Also from personal experience, what do you find safer?
Thanks

[Bill White]

Let me put it like this:
I've beaten the crap out of my fingers with my hammer.:eek::eek::eek:
I've NEVER (yet) shot myself with the nail/staple guns, and I have 5 of 'em.:)
Bill

[Mitchell Andrus]

Same here. Hammer - 2, nail gun - 0.

Though... I've gotten a blister on the side of my index finger from using a nail gun for too many hours. 'zat count?.
.

[Karl Brogger]

Do they have a rule for being on a roof? or stradling wobbly trusses when nailing up bracing? or walking across the top plate? All things I'm sure are way more dangerous statistically than nail gun. Heck, I know a guy who stapled his hand to the roof to keep from falling off the back of a two story walkout. Try doing that with a hammer!

Sounds like a pack of idiots to me.

[David Peterson MN]

Definitely the hammer is more dangerous. It has bit me many times but the nail gun has yet to break the flesh. I am sure they had a nail gun injury in the past and that is why the policy is in place. Someone probably was using a nail gun for the first time and shot the nail at a bad angle through the stud and into their hand. That same person would probably hit their fingers with a hammer a dozen times in a day.

[Radek Kowalski]

I think the issue may be with safety for the others. You can hit yourself in the hand with a hammer, it it much harder to hit someone else in the hand. I understand the issue of falling hammers, I know how that goes. A nail gun can hurt the operator plus others around.

[David DeCristoforo]

I have never shot myself (or anyone else) with a hammer. I have never smashed a finger with a nail gun. Which one should we fear most?

[Bob Chapman]

This almost never happens when using a hammer :D
http://www.usatoday.com/news/offbeat/2005-01-16-nail-skull_x.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/news/offbeat/2005-01-16-nail-skull_x.htm)
I worked for an RV manufacturer for over 30 years and I was always amazed at how frequently someone would staple their finger. These were experienced people with training on their tools and regular refresher training! I believe it was a combination of rushing to get the job done and “familiarity breeds contempt.”
I can completely understand not allowing volunteers handle a nail gun.

[John Coloccia]

I'll wager that if they were called "fastener drivers", no one would object. But you want to use a nail GUN. Are you crazy?? LOL.

That's my guess. I can think of a lot of general construction tasks way more likely to injure yourself and others than a nail gu...er.....fastener driver.

Fact is, though, sure they can be dangerous. My old style, spring loaded staple gun will shoot staples across the room at high speed, enough to cut someone (don't ask how I know) and certainly enough to seriously injure you if it nails you in the eye. The question is "how dangerous"? I'll guess that more people get hurt climbing up ladders than getting bit by a nail gun.

[Jim Rimmer]

As many have pointed out, any task can be dangerous. Why HH has ruled out nail guns you'll probably never know. But given everything else that can happen on a construction site if you're not careful, maybe they should consider not doing what they do if they are that concerned with one tool.

[Cary Falk]

I have been tagged with a nail that hit some grain and shot out the side of a project into my finger. I have smashed my fingers into hamburger many a times with a shingling hatchet. I would say the hammer is more dangerous.

[Bob Vallaster]

The discussion hasn't addressed Tim's essential question which asked for statistics on the relative safety of nails gun vs hammer.
A search using 'nail gun injury statistics' shed some light. Looks like there's research to indicate that while injuries among tradesmen (framers, case-builders) has remained constant for a long while, there's been a surge in injuries to hobbyists, probably associated with lower prices and greater access to these tools. Links:
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5614a2.htm
http://www.cpsc.gov/library/data.html (3rd from bottom of page)

As might be expected, most research spoke ill of guns which did not have sequential triggers (nose depressed to enable firing at trigger pull).

I'll speculate the board of directors or construction manager for Tim's local HH chapter knows most volunteers do not have background in the building trades and are likely ignorant of nail gun hazards. (Volunteers likened to the hobbyists remarked in research.) The simple route is to avoid the hazard by avoiding the tool. The bonus is cost avoidance; HH can buy buckets of hammers for the cost of a nail gun and compressor. The penalty is time consumed to nail, to set (finish nails) and to repair work spoiled by errant hammer blows. (Labor is free in the HH context.)
Another route (used by the HH chapter I have worked with) is to provide safety glasses, instruction and supervision with the tool. Yes, the chapter owns nail guns & compressors... and volunteers use them. I and other volunteers bring our own on occasion. The instruction looks like this OSHA tip sheet: http://www.osha.gov/Publications/nail-gun.html. The bonus is productivity/speed/uniformity.

As for hammer research, you're on your own, Tim.

BobV

[Michael Schwartz]

If you wear proper eye protection the potential for life changing injuries from a finish/brad nailer are pretty much zero.

Framing guns are a bit more dangerous but so hammers that get thrown or dropped by mistake etc...

I would imagine driving to a job sight one single day is probably more dangerous than a career of nail gun use.

[Chris Tsutsui]

I'm going to have to say that a nail gun is more dangerous than a hammer.

If you put a nail in and the nail deflects off a hidden knot and comes out the side into your hand or finger.

You nail fast, and put a nail into your finger. All it takes is a split second and the pull of a trigger.

I even saw a guy tape back the nozzle and fire nails across the room, yes he is a moron for doing that.

The gun can also malfunction, it's definitely more complicated than a hammer. Brads are small and achieve high velocities, you've got high pressure air, and then there's the chance of user error.

With a hammer, i'm going to have to say injuries are mostly user error.

[Rick Fisher]

I have shot myself with a brad nailer.. and hit a thumb with a hammer..

I would take shooting myself with a brad nailer any day..

Hammers hurt..

[Mitchell Andrus]

I met a construction mgr at a Christmas party last night. I asked him about hammer/nail gun injuries. He said he knew of three nail gun injuries personally. Two happened while the workers were climbing down a ladder with the gun in his hand. Each received a nail into the top of his thigh. The third was a minor shrapnel wound.

Can we all say "finger off the trigger when not actually nailing something on purpose"? Climbing down a ladder..... I can see that happening.
.

[Paul Greathouse]

A little off topic but, The only thing worse than hitting your thumb with a 22oz framing hammer on a cold 30 degree day is hitting the same thumb, with the same 22oz framing hammer, the next day on another cold 30 degree day.:D

Got shot through the hand with a framing nailer, by someone else, went through 3 bones, it didn't feel very good. The twice hit thumb didn't even compare in pain intensity. The bloody thumb didn't require surgury as the shot hand did. I would gladly hit myself with the framing hammer multiple times to avoid being shot with the framing nailer again.

[bill mullin]

A little off topic but, The only thing worse than hitting your thumb with a 22oz framing hammer on a cold 30 degree day is hitting the same thumb, with the same 22oz framing hammer, the next day on another cold 30 degree day.:D

Got shot through the hand with a framing nailer, by someone else, went through 3 bones, it didn't feel very good. The twice hit thumb didn't even compare in pain intensity. The bloody thumb didn't require surgury as the shot hand did. I would gladly hit myself with the framing hammer multiple times to avoid being shot with the framing nailer again.

A friend did this. The second time, he was nailing hip rafters at the bottom corner of the roof, and I was getting ready to hand him the last rafters. He turned ghost white, and I thought he was gonna faint, and I was gonna have to catch him.:eek:

Mitchell's point about finger off the trigger would prevent almost all framing nailer accidents, since most of them have the bump-shoot feature. A simple and effective preventive technique that many of us learn when handling firearms. Keep yer' dang finger off the dang trigger!

[Paul Steiner]

I was watching cool tools last night and the show was on safety. The list the most dangerous tools as 1. Tablesaw 2. Nail gun 3. ladders 4. Miter saw 5. Circular saw. I do not remember who their source was. I would think ladders would be number 1 because of more frequent use/abuse.

[Mitchell Andrus]

I was watching cool tools last night and the show was on safety. The list the most dangerous tools as 1. Tablesaw 2. Nail gun 3. ladders 4. Miter saw 5. Circular saw. I do not remember who their source was. I would think ladders would be number 1 because of more frequent use/abuse.

Yea, but the stats are meaningless unless you know how many man-hours it takes to have an event with a category of tool. TS's are more plentiful than nail guns so of course their numbers will be higher if only unweighted figures are used. Also, professionals are more likely to use nail guns which negates the inclusion of weekend warriors in the TS figures.

I fell off of a 20 foot ladder once, but I was on the bottom rung. 'zat count?
.

[Jason White]

I smash my thumb far less often with a nail gun.

Jason


This may be a better question for the JLC guys, but I was wondering if anyone is aware of any statistics on the relative safety or injury rate of nail guns vs. hammers. I do have nail gun safety stats but not hammers.

The reason I ask is that one of the habitat chapters I work with has a no nail gun policy. As someone who has used nail guns forever, I find this endlessly annoying - anyone remember assembling stud walls by hand? Ugh.

But they claim it is a safety issue - can anyone prove otherwise? Also from personal experience, what do you find safer?
Thanks

[Mitchell Andrus]

I smashed my nail gun with my thumb once. It hurt, but it was my fault.

[Chip Lindley]

Understandable that HH has their policy of No Nail Guns. Safety First! Volunteer help is not professional help. A a hammer may be hurtful, but a nail gun in the wrong hands could well be deadly.

[Ryan Baker]

You may be less likely to injure yourself using the gun than the hammer, but the severity of the injury is much worse with the nail gun than the black and blue finger you will get with the hammer.

You have to consider the audience too. Basically anyone posting to this forum is in a group that would be pretty safe handling nail guns. But that is not true for the average volunteer off the street that can barely swing a hammer. People do some amazingly stupid things with tools when they don't understand how to use them properly -- especially after the "i've seen that on TV" syndrome sets in. HH can't take the liability for what could happen. They could easily take the position that only trained, experienced operators who are willing to sign a release be allowed to operate the tools ... then they could cover both bases.

[Ed Griner]

Does HH allow power saws,drills,? I have been in the organized trades since 1973 and have found that a very small percentage of the trades people are responsible for 100% of the lost time accidents.Power tools are here to stay,pick the correct people.I'm sure HH would not require horse and buggy only,so nobody gets run over with a truck.Power tools are inherently dangerous,but a necessary part of construction,just like cars and trucks. Nail guns are great,I own serveral.When I can't use a nail gun,a cordless drill and screws are my next choice.

Ed

[Bryan Rocker]

I will add my .02$ worth. I have work on numerous HFH projects. When we are actually framing the house, we will give volunteers hammers, unless they are somebody from the construction field we know. Nail guns in the inexperienced hands can be a real problem. Having said that, I have smashed my thumbs hanging vinyl siding than anything else. I must admit though, during one HFH work day, one of the experience volunteers shot me in the knee with a Paslode framing nail. It didn't pentrate the jeans but it did smart........I think it all depends on the experience level and the task at hand......

[Glen Butler]

I'm going to have to say that a nail gun is more dangerous than a hammer.

If you put a nail in and the nail deflects off a hidden knot and comes out the side into your hand or finger.

You nail fast, and put a nail into your finger. All it takes is a split second and the pull of a trigger.

With a hammer, i'm going to have to say injuries are mostly user error.

Putting your hand within the radius of the length of the nail is also user error. You should never put your hand where the nail can bite you if deflected. Many states do not allow bump firing anymore (Though many guns you can modify) so you would have to be an idiot or off in la-la-land to miss your target.

[Casey Gooding]

I'll just say it's considerably harder to put a 2.5" framing nail through your hand (or leg, or arm, or head, or foot, or chest, or hip...need I go on) with a hammer.

[Glen Butler]

A little off topic but, The only thing worse than hitting your thumb with a 22oz framing hammer on a cold 30 degree day is hitting the same thumb, with the same 22oz framing hammer, the next day on another cold 30 degree day.:D


I was going to share this several posts ago but lost it just as I was about to submit, but now I have to share.

It was a brisk -17 (yes negative 17) outside and I was walking frost covered walls and trusses getting ready to nail up a 2x6x16 facia member. As I was waiting for the nailgun to be rerouted I decide I would get the facia tacked up. I set the nail and positioned the board. Everything was slippery with the frost and when the hammer came down it deflected off the nail and into my thumb. The nail bent and not driveable I used my claw to pull it. It would not move, so more umph. It came suddenly and sent the same thumb smashing into the facia board. With a double wacked frozen thumb I had to switch which hand was gripping said board. You can see where this is going. Now with the less experienced hand swinging the 24 oz waffle hammer I missed again into my other thumb. Needless to say I was having a ****ty day.

[Doug W Swanson]

I have worked on numerous HFH houses and I can see their point about no framing nailers. Most people here would probably know how to safely handle and use a framing nailer but I doubt that is true on a HFH build.

The HFH relies on many people to donate their time to build a house so I'm sure they are trying to keep the work site safe for everyone.

Like some of the others have posted, which is worse? A black and blue thumb or a nail shot through a hand?

JMO,
Doug

BTW My wife worked with someone who accidently shot himself in the head with a framing nailer. He was building some shelving in the garage and was moving around with the nailer in his hand when his finger hit the trigger. The nail ricocheted off something and lodged in his head (around the eye area). This guy was lucky that he survived. It missed some part of his brain by millimiters.