Radial Arm Saw

[Brandon Weiss]

How many of you have a Radial Arm Saw? I'm new to woodworking so my tool collection is small at this point, one tool which is not in my collection be the Radial Arm Saw. I am happy with what I've got so far, and running out of room in the garage, though. I keep a watchful eye on Craigslist for the AZ area, in fact, most of my woodworking tools have been purchased there. I see a lot of ads for older model Craftsman Radial Arm Saws. I've been thinking about getting one if I find the right deal on Craigslist. I'm wondering if this is a tool I will truly use though. My TS3650 serves me quite well for everything so far, so the Radial Arm Saw would definitely be a luxury item, money that could be used on clamps or other useful items as well. Are the Radial Arm Saws really worth the money? Are the older craftsman models any good? It will be a while before I purchase anything else tool wise, but I like to get a jump start on my research and answer any lingering questions I have well in advance. Thanks for the input.

[Matt Day]

You'll find a lot of information on here about RASs. Give the search function a try and you'll find more than you need to know!

FWIW, I have one of those older C'man RAS and it's okay for rough crosscutting but that's about it. Even a little nudge of the table and it's out of whack too much for FWWing.

[Chuck Saunders]

I find that it is better to but a tool when I need it and not when I see it. I don't follow my own rule all of the time, but I don't have any tools that I don't use. If you are going to buy a radial arm (and I like them) lean towards the older DeWalt cast iron arm versions.

[Jim Rimmer]

I am sure you will get conflicting opinions but I don't have a RAS and can't remember ever saying to myself that I wish I had one. On a couple of occasions I wished I had a SCMS instead of just a CMS but never saw the need for a RAS.

[Karl Laustrup]

I would have to agree with Chuck about the older DeWalt RAS saws. I have two actually. One was my dad's from the early 60's and I bought a Model 777 in the early 70's. I built quite a few things with it over the years and with a little care it was dead on for accuracy. I cut many a 45 miter that matched up perfectly. Even a few compound angles.

There are still a few things I'd rather do on the RAS than with my TS, but that's me. The RAS is how I learned what I know about WW'ing and it still has a place in my shop.

That being said if you find one at a good price [70's or older DeWalt] I'm sure it will serve you well. I have no idea what kind of price one would bring though. As a guess I'd say maybe $200-300.

Karl

[Sean Nagle]

I'm considering adding a RAS to my shop too. I recently relocated my tablesaw to maximize shop space. The new location limits my rips to 36" and crosscuts on the right side of the blade to about the same.

I used to crosscut [and dado] very long boards on a sled to the right of the blade with support from a 52" extension table. Now I'm faced with fashioning a new sled for the left side of the blade to handle long pieces such as bed rails/posts and long table skirts and stretchers.

As an option to building yet another sled that might not be an optimum solution, I'm considering adding a RAS to the shop strictly for 90 degree crosscuts and dado operations. However, I would want it to be dead-on accurate. Every time I read a thread on radial arm saws, there are always posts claiming their RAS is only good for rough cuts which then casts doubts about picking up a RAS.

I'd be interested in knowing if others have accurate RAS setups and what techniques/tools do people typically use for crosscutting and fashioning tenons in bed rails and table stretchers.

[Dave Cav]

I'm down to about four RAS right now. With a little luck one of them will go away this weekend. I use my radial arm saw(s) all the time in addition to the table saws. I have a 12" Delta I use for breaking down stock and general crosscutting, and a 9" 50s vintage DeWalt I use for trimming and fine work. I use both of them for dado and lap joints. My suggestion would be to look for a late 40s to very early 60s DeWalt, preferably a round arm model. I would stay away from the later B&D DeWalts, and ANY Craftsman. Craigslist is full of C'man saws, and there's a reason for that.

You should be able to find an MBF, MBC or 925 without too much trouble and for not too much money. Of course, the better shape they are in, the more they will probably cost, but if you can find one that is pretty intact but ugly, they are easy and fun to restore. I will try to post some pictures later.

[Chip Lindley]

Dave, you're My Kinda Guy! I'm down to 4 RAS's myself now The old C'man Has just got to GO tho! (to make way for my big Rockwell 18", 7.5hp monster. I have two 12" Delta/Rockwells retrofitted with newer track arms with trackrods rather than machined grooves.

A healthy RAS is really nice for crosscutting 8/4 or even 4/4 hardwood! Wimpy 3/4hp 10"ers need not apply! I find that the 1.5hp Rockwell/Delta is about as *small* as I can afford to go. DeWalt made some fine cast iron RAS's in the past! These are often had at real bargain prices!

There is much debate between the archaic RAS and smaller, lighter, more trendy SMCS. Neither are worth a hoot if they do not retain their settings, or if they bobble and ruin a finish cut! Many man-hours have been devoted to the merits (and demerits) of the two here. Research and learn!

[jerry nazard]

Brandon,

I use my RAS for ~90 crosscut only and it gets used quite a bit. A good compound miter saw would do the same thing. If you do follow through on getting a RAS, an older Dewalt or Delta would be fun to own. I agree with the previous negative comments about Craftsman saws.

-Jerry

[Steve Rowe]

The Craftsman RAS was the first major machine I purchased (1979 vintage). I had it for about 15 years and replaced it with a miter saw. I have absolutely no regrets about this and can honestly say that I never wished I still had it or even had a use for it that I couldn't satisfy with another tool or machine in my shop. If I were in your shoes, I would only buy one if I had a very definitive and repetitive use for it. One question to ask yourself is: "Why do RAS's keep showing up for sale on Craigslist?" The answer to this should lead you to answer your own question.

[Stephen Saar]

I'm actually currently rebuilding my Grandfathers 50's DeWalt model GE 16" RAS, and I would make this suggestion just from what I've learned rebuilding it. Anything lightweight (i.e. smaller than 12") most likely will have flex problems. Which isn't a problem if you are just using it to rough stock, but if you are trying to make fine cuts you will probably need something a good bit bigger. I do like my 16" RAS for that very reason, it's so heavy and large you can't cause it to flex, and it was well made, so all the parts fit together correctly.

In summary, if you end up getting a smaller unit it should be fine for roughing out stock, but you will need a larger more substantial unit if you want to do more accurate cuts, but I definitely think they are nice to have for certain tasks, but like all tools they have strengths and weaknesses.

-Stephen

[Dave Cav]

I have two 12" Delta/Rockwells retrofitted with newer track arms with trackrods rather than machined grooves.



I was wondering if you could do that. I have two Delta 12" RAS, one an 80s model that's my daily user and an older 70s model I just picked up a few weeks ago for $50 that I plan to restore. The older one has the machined grooves. What is involved in the conversion? Just buying the rods and new carriage bearing guides?

[Larry Crowder]

For anyone reading this thread who is interested in owning old radial arm saws, I have one for sale: the Monarch portable radial arm saw cast in magnesium to save weight.

The Uni-Point Radial Arm Saw was mfg in NJ by the American Woodworking Machinery Company. Here is a link to the original sales brochure from 1950. http://www.owwm.com/pubs/36/701.pdf

It shows the sales price in 1950 as $485 plus $40 for the base = $525. The motor is wired for 230V single phase. It can be switched to 115V.

I would like to sell the saw because I need the room. The motor runs like new. It needs a new blade. The bearings that the arm rides on work OK, but should be replaced for it to work like new. I took some time a couple of weeks ago to clean and lubricate the angle scale and it now swivels like new.

What makes the Uni-point saw special, is because of the way it is made. The name Uni-point is to denote how it's different from other radial arm saws that rotate from a stationary arm in the back. This saw swivels at the exact point where the blade meets the fence. That means it does not matter what angle you are cutting, that point stays the same. You always know how to line up your cut. A fence on a typical radial arm saw is cut through at various places. Every different angle and bevel results in a different cut through the fence. This portable uni-point saw is no longer made. It's big brother is still being manufactured by Northfield.

http://www.northfieldwoodworking.com/radialsaws/unipoint.htm

It comes in several flavors, the cheapest is $13,130. I'm asking $300 for this saw as is. I'm in the Memphis area. If interested or you have questions, send me a PM.

[Bob Aquino]

The Craftsman RAS was the first major machine I purchased (1979 vintage). I had it for about 15 years and replaced it with a miter saw. I have absolutely no regrets about this and can honestly say that I never wished I still had it or even had a use for it that I couldn't satisfy with another tool or machine in my shop. If I were in your shoes, I would only buy one if I had a very definitive and repetitive use for it. One question to ask yourself is: "Why do RAS's keep showing up for sale on Craigslist?" The answer to this should lead you to answer your own question.

Don't make the same mistake I did and judge a RAS from the crap sears put out for years. Even the real old ones aren't worth the trouble. As Dave mentioned, go with a cast iron arm saw such as an old Dewalt or Delta. 50's to 60's vintage preferably. They can be very accurate once properly set up and as a bonus, the dust collection tends to be much more effective. Even a small saw such as an older Dewalt MBF will give you about a 13" crosscut. You can also spin a dado blade on it, try that with a sliding miter saw.

You will have to make a table that is very rigid and flat in order to achieve the accuracy. Google "Mr. Sawdust" and see what you find.

[David Benavidez]

Here is a WALKER/TURNER 12 Inch Center Pivot Saw.......Commercial Heavy Duty...1 1/2 HP.....220V....Single Phase. This thing is a beast...all cast iron. I look at it in the shop more than I use it. Other machinery seem to be used more. I am thinking about parting with it. I believe it could cut a house in half!

[Ryan Baker]

I have an old Dewalt that I got mainly because it was almost free. It lives in my garage and almost never sees any use, except to occasionally crosscut really long stock before moving it to my shop. I don't like it for much of anything, and certainly wouldn't buy another. It's nice for cutting crosscut grooves with a dado blade, such as for half-lap joints in 2X4s.

[Dave Cav]

Here are a couple of the old DeWalt saws I cleaned up recently. The first one is a 3/4 HP MBF I bought for $25. The owner left it in his driveway and told me to stick the money in an envelope and shove it under his garage door. I stripped it down, replaced the bearings and refinished it in Seafoam Green wrinkle paint which is as close as I could get to the old DeWalt spatter paint. I use it almost every time I'm in the shop.

Before:
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t317/sunshinenight/DeWalt%20MBF/resized_MBFbefore.jpg

After:
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t317/sunshinenight/DeWalt%20MBF/resized_leftafter.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t317/sunshinenight/DeWalt%20MBF/resized_Rightafter.jpg

Here's an MBC I got for $35:

Before:
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t317/sunshinenight/Dewalt%20MBC/resized_MBCLeft.jpg

After:
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t317/sunshinenight/Dewalt%20MBC/resized_DSCF0849.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t317/sunshinenight/Dewalt%20MBC/resized_DSCF0852.jpg

[Martin King]

Here's my restored MBC. Perfect size for my small shop-and I use it
on just about every project.

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p200/cruizin31/mbc1.jpg

[Ryan Baker]

Dave,

That "DeWalt Power Shop" one in the background looks exactly like mine. I guess that's the model I have.

[Dave Cav]

Dave,

That "DeWalt Power Shop" one in the background looks exactly like mine. I guess that's the model I have.

The Power Shop/925 saws are really neat, especially the period color scheme. I no longer have mine as I also had the MBF, and I prefer the older round arm styling. I got a great deal on my 925... I traded pair Stanley planes, #4 and #5, for it. I subsequently sold it to the other shop teacher at school and he loves it, too. His wife thought it was "very cute".

[Bob Aquino]

Here is mine, another MBF bought for 25 bucks. Not up to the level of Martin's restoration, but I'm happy with it:

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_nh7rpc89jO0/SxGJgIhqgDI/AAAAAAAAICw/D_hDLYbIVY8/s800/P1040395.JPG

[Dave Cav]

That saw ended up looking great, Bob, especially considering where it started. Nice table, too.

[Greg Hines, MD]

For anyone reading this thread who is interested in owning old radial arm saws, I have one for sale: the Monarch portable radial arm saw cast in magnesium to save weight.

The Uni-Point Radial Arm Saw was mfg in NJ by the American Woodworking Machinery Company. Here is a link to the original sales brochure from 1950. http://www.owwm.com/pubs/36/701.pdf

It shows the sales price in 1950 as $485 plus $40 for the base = $525. The motor is wired for 230V single phase. It can be switched to 115V.

I would like to sell the saw because I need the room. The motor runs like new. It needs a new blade. The bearings that the arm rides on work OK, but should be replaced for it to work like new. I took some time a couple of weeks ago to clean and lubricate the angle scale and it now swivels like new.

What makes the Uni-point saw special, is because of the way it is made. The name Uni-point is to denote how it's different from other radial arm saws that rotate from a stationary arm in the back. This saw swivels at the exact point where the blade meets the fence. That means it does not matter what angle you are cutting, that point stays the same. You always know how to line up your cut. A fence on a typical radial arm saw is cut through at various places. Every different angle and bevel results in a different cut through the fence. This portable uni-point saw is no longer made. It's big brother is still being manufactured by Northfield.

http://www.northfieldwoodworking.com/radialsaws/unipoint.htm

It comes in several flavors, the cheapest is $13,130. I'm asking $300 for this saw as is. I'm in the Memphis area. If interested or you have questions, send me a PM.


That is a very interesting saw. If I had the room, I would make you an offer.

Doc

[mark kosse]

Not to start trouble but I find it amusing how folks will just badmouth certain tools, especially by the maker. I have a 1960 (actual) vintage dewalt ras that has a motor that says it's a monkey ward. I know it was replaced but dewalt made them for monkey wards too. Same for many craftsman tools. I have a '85 vintage craftsman ras that does the job I want it to. I also have a delta (I'm going by memory) 66-990 or, model 10 that I do like better than the craftsman, but you can't buy used for near the same price.

Ask yourself what you want a ras to do. If it's cabinetry, no. For general carpentry, I use them more than my delta uni saw. A decent craftsman can be had here in houston for <100.00.

By the way, I have a house in houston, a farm, and I teach woodshop, hence all the equipment.

FYI, MK

[Glen Butler]

I would love to own an RAS. It gets really annoying having to pull the trigger 5000 times to cut cabinet door parts. I would love to just turn it on and hack the wood up and be done with it. I waste a lot of time waiting for the miter saw to come up to speed.

[Neal Clayton]

larry, you have a PM coming.

as for my opinion of them, i have one, and use it. like any other tool, for certain things it excels, for others, not so much.

for my purposes, if you need to perform dadoes, in long boards (like in door and window frames) it's superior to a table saw for that. not nearly as much space required.

for me to dado a window frame for a set of 3 double hungs i'd have to have 10 feet on either side of my table saw blade, which would increase that saw's footprint to about what, 30 feet square? kinda silly. radial arm saw can do the same function just as well against the wall with about a 4x4 foot footprint.

[Bob Aquino]

Not to start trouble but I find it amusing how folks will just badmouth certain tools, especially by the maker. I have a 1960 (actual) vintage dewalt ras that has a motor that says it's a monkey ward. I know it was replaced but dewalt made them for monkey wards too. Same for many craftsman tools. I have a '85 vintage craftsman ras that does the job I want it to. I also have a delta (I'm going by memory) 66-990 or, model 10 that I do like better than the craftsman, but you can't buy used for near the same price.

Ask yourself what you want a ras to do. If it's cabinetry, no. For general carpentry, I use them more than my delta uni saw. A decent craftsman can be had here in houston for <100.00.

By the way, I have a house in houston, a farm, and I teach woodshop, hence all the equipment.

FYI, MK

A Dewalt or Delta saw that is dialed in will make cuts more than adequate for cabinetry work. My MBF will cut a very nice clean and square cut about 13" long with the current 8" blade it is spinning. The biggest difference between using one of the "good" saws and something that sears made is that when you swing the arm off 90 and then go back, the sears may or may not be at 90. The others will. The reason is the design of the saw. The Dewalt has a solid cast iron mount, column and arm and the column has very tight machined surfaces that allow it to maintain its accuracy.
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_nh7rpc89jO0/SraQ8KupTQI/AAAAAAAAHxI/N5GZBS3qoRE/s800/P1040285.JPG

I don't badmouth tools unless I owned one, and I had one of the "good old sears saws". Sears tools pretty much fell off the quality wagon sometime around the mid 60's when they went to Emerson as their in house manufacturer. They even brought Dewalt down when they forced them to compete on the low price end of the scale. There is a reason you see so many of the older Sears saws on CL; they were made cheap, they were bought cheap and they never worked as well as the more expensive machines from Delta, Powermatic, Walker Turner, etc. But for most of the Harry Homeowner types that just wanted to cut some wood and put up shelves, that was fine. I would suggest that people who want to get into the older saws go to owwm.org or over to the Dewalt forums on Delphi and ask a few questions there.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Here is a WALKER/TURNER 12 Inch Center Pivot Saw.......Commercial Heavy Duty...1 1/2 HP.....220V....Single Phase. This thing is a beast...all cast iron. I look at it in the shop more than I use it. Other machinery seem to be used more. I am thinking about parting with it. I believe it could cut a house in half!

David, I bought one of those for $25 at an auction last year. It needs refurbished, but thanks for posting the pics of yours. I'm a little more motivated now!

[Dave Cav]

I would love to own an RAS. It gets really annoying having to pull the trigger 5000 times to cut cabinet door parts. I would love to just turn it on and hack the wood up and be done with it. I waste a lot of time waiting for the miter saw to come up to speed.

Don't forget the noise factor, too. A miter saw has a universal router type motor and they really scream. The older RAS have regular induction motors and are MUCH more quiet.

[Mark Boyette]

I'd rather use a jigsaw than a craftsman RAS.. probably get a straighter cut too.
buy quality and you'll never regret it.

[Bill Bixby]

I'll just chime in and say that I have one of the newer Craftsman RAS. I really hated it for the first few years until I finally broke down and read the manual. It took a good 30 minutes to set it up to millimeter accuracy and I have gotten great results ever since. For me the secret was to set all the adjustments points very tight and NEVER use the mechanism that moves the entire saw arm for miter cuts, use a jig instead.

[Chip Lindley]

Just saw your post Dave. I bought two newer track arms and bearing carriages off eBay from parted-out saws. They bolt up to the older 1-ph motor and its fork. Other than obtaining the newer track arm and concave bearings, the conversion cannot be made.

[Erik Christensen]

I have a Delta 12" and use it for cabinet work all the time. Totally accurate - I just used it yesterday to cut rails & stiles to length - all dead on.

I fudged the shaper setup and cut the coped end tongue about a 64th too long - it was easier to turn on the laser (full blade width and EXACTLY setup) & RAS and shave a bit off the tongue then redo the shaper setup & re-cut everything.

I do not know why RAS are looked at so differently - maybe because they are such a niche tool. It is like asking if a table saw is good to have - you will get all kinds of answers from folks who have flimsy table top models to contractor saws to full on 5 hp cabinet models.

My 2 cents from starting with a Crafstman & ending up with a Delta - after using one for 25 years -

Craftsman = flimsy contractor table saw
Delta 12" = good cabinet saw

both work = just one is safer, easier to use & turns out a more consistently superior product.

final point - never ever use one with any old blade you have laying around - they need a special blade with a negative hook angle to keep it from over feeding. you will find it difficult if not impossible to get good results out of this saw with an incorrect blade

[James Carmichael]

I'm in the process of restoring an old MBC, waiting for the motor bearings to come in.

If you're going to shop for an old RAS, target a DeWalt. The desirable models are the MB series (though the MBC only has a 1/2 HP motor), GW, 925, 1030, 7790. DeWalt RAS Forums has a list of models and specs. Below is an article on recon:

http://www.woodcentral.com/bparticles/bpindex2.shtml

[John Petsche]

great postings of RAS dewalts.

[Myk Rian]

The Craftsman RAS was the first major machine I purchased (1979 vintage). I had it for about 15 years and replaced it with a miter saw. I have absolutely no regrets about this and can honestly say that I never wished I still had it or even had a use for it that I couldn't satisfy with another tool or machine in my shop. If I were in your shoes, I would only buy one if I had a very definitive and repetitive use for it. One question to ask yourself is: "Why do RAS's keep showing up for sale on Craigslist?" The answer to this should lead you to answer your own question.
The problem is the age of your RAS. 1979? Not a good year for C-man.
I restored a 1958 round-arm DeWalt, and love it. Right on 90 and 45 deg cuts.

236662

[Bill White]

I bought my C'man RAS in 1978, used it for everything possible, and sold it this year 'cause I didn't have the room for it in the new shop. Once set up properly, it worked well, and I hated to see it go. Paid $178.00 new, sold it for $150.00. Not a bad investment.
Folks either like 'em or hate 'em.
Bill

[Sam Layton]

Hi Brandon,

I have three RAS's, 10" Dewalt round arm GWI, 14" Original Saw Co, (same as Dewalt round arm, in fact the motor saws Dewalt), and an 18" Delta. I am about to get started restoring all three. The 14", and 18" will be dedicated to 90 deg cuts only.

When the saws are finished they will be lined up in a long bench. I am phasing out my SCMS.

If you want to get one, I would recommend the older Dewalts. Also If you do get a RAS, make sure you get the proper blade with a neg hook.

Sam

[Matt Day]

Looks like Brandon hasn't been active on the site for a year - hopefully he's been making sawdust!

My $.02 is that I've had 2 RAS's over the past 6 years, and the one I have now is an older Dewalt and it's much better than the C'man I had before. But the biggest difference I've found is that I've just mounted a negative hook blade and wow it's cuts much smoother and better. I always knew it was supposed to have this blade, but for whatever reason never got one - glad I did! I got one of the ebay Oshlun's for $20 and it cuts like butter.

[Aaron Berk]

:D Just cause I love a healthy dose of RAS talk....

I don't use mine every day, but pretty darn close.
I do lots of production work and I find that no other tool can give me the same results in the same foot print.

And to the guy talking about pulling the trigger on a CMS 5,000 times;) I know where your coming from.
If I have to make more than 3 cuts, I'll skip the cms and head to the RAS

My 1st RAS was a $5 10" c-man that sucked but got me itching for a real one.

I love my 14" Dewalt GA

[John Petsche]

great thread and pics

[brian c miller]

I just joined the RAS club... It was the first tool I can remeber using in my grandfather work shop and boy did he use it, cross cuts, rips, dado, mitres, etc.

I foun and older walker turner on CL local and "had to have it." I'll need to build (weld) a base for it but I am very happy to have a new toy.

[Cary Falk]

I love the look of the DeWalt round arms. Here is my 1.5hp GWI. I don't use it a lot but don't want to sell it. I'm a tool junkie.
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q297/caryincamas/DSC_0536.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q297/caryincamas/DSC_0538.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q297/caryincamas/DSC_0537.jpg

[david brum]

That's a beauty, Cary. My MBF/925/7770 frankensaw is white also. The majority of the tools in my shop are Jet and Shop Fox, so the MBF needed to match....

[Rian de Bruyn]

I will be lost with out myne
I use it for all my cross cuts

[bobby milam]

I was in the same position as you. I could find RAS all day on craigslist cheap but room was also important. I went with a sliding miter instead and it has worked out perfectly for me. Really goin g to depend on the type of work you are going to do. I mainly just need it for 90 degree cuts on long boards. A RAS would have worked also but this was best for me.

[Bill Geibe]

Cary, that's really a gorgeous saw - great job. I like the DeWalt's but was never a fan of their pebble finish paint. Currently, I'm rebuilding a turret arm Rockwell Plus 10 to replace my ubiquitous Craftsman.

Bill