First try at Scary Sharp

[Dean Baumgartner]

Made my first attempt at using the Scary Sharp method on a plane iron and a chisel tonight. I picked up the Veritas honing guide at Woodworkers Depot here in Green Bay, got a pack of assorted wet/dry sandpaper 220 - 1000 grit and had at it.

Started out on the 220 grit with the iron from a low angle block plane and wasn't getting the bevel all the way accross very quickly so I put on a piece of 100 grit garnet paper which did a good job of getting the angle correct. After that I proceeded through the grits in about 10 min adjusted the micro bevel to 2 degrees then removed the iron from the jig and flattened the backside. Put the plane back together and tried out on a scrap of pine. WOW one continuous shaving about 18" long and thin enough to read through if just barely.

Next I did one of the Marples chisels starting with the 100 grit and going up to 1000 on the back side of the chisel and then set the chisel in the jig and ran through the full set of grits finished with the 2degree micro bevel and then used the 800 and 1000 to remove the wire edge on the back. Tried again on a piece of pine and where before it was difficult to hand push a good shaving out it was almost effortless.

Can't wait to go back out and do the rest of the planes and the other chisels. But my only question is why I didn't try this before.

Dean

[John Miliunas]

Guess I'm not quite understanding this whole process, Dean. I read through your post twice and still couldn't see a thing about horsepower, voltage input or even RPM's. :confused: What, is this Scary Sharp machine put out by one of the major OEM's and just using that name for the sake of the upcoming Halloween holiday? And then there are these "planes" you speak of. Surely, they're not the type you can fly and even if they were, I would think it impossible to skim off 18" of a Pine tree without causing major damage to the aircraft and occupant(s)! :eek: Be careful out there. Sounds like you're into some dangerous territory! :cool:

[Dick Parr]

Couldn't have said it better myself John. :D :p

[James Carmichael]

Danger, slippery slope ahead!

FWIW, a good test of your edge is to see if it will cut end-grain pine cleanly across the entire width of the blade. Also saves your arm hair :eek:

[Dean Baumgartner]

You guys are right, this is a dangerous slope to head down. I can see some of the attraction that the Neanders have for these tools without tails. There's something to the quiet and having the shavings come off with so little effort. Don't get me wrong, i'll never give up the electron eaters but it's nice to have another option when appropriate.

Dean

[John Miliunas]

Dean, I can understand where you're coming from. (Shhhhhh...Who said that?! :eek: ) I'd love a nice LN or two or even a couple of the older Stanley units. I do know that when I went through and sharpened a couple of my Marples chisels, it was like a day & night difference. I also "learned" some new respect for sharp chisels! (Ouch!) :rolleyes: Another WW I ran into a couple weeks ago at the local Woodcraft, highly recomends the LN scraper plane as an alternate to the usual sandpaper. Ju$t a bit too $teep for my budget at the moment! Oh, and before I forget, where are the pics of the 18" ribbons?! Hmmmmm???? :cool:

[Carole Valentine]

You might try the 3M micro abrasive films developed for scarey sharpening. Use the 40 micron (similar to a 400 grit waterstone) for really rough blade shaping and doing the backs of old blades. Then progress thru the 15 micron (similar to a 1200 grit waterstone), followed by 5 (similar to a 5000 grit waterstone), followed by either the .5 chromium oxide or the .3 Micron Aluminum Oxide (similar to an 8000 or 12000 grit waterstone respectively). The odd thing is, that with the exception of the 40 micron, they all feel so smooth that you wonder how they could be doing anything, but trust me...they work!

[John Miliunas]

Carole, you say these 3M abrasives were developed for the SS method. That's cool, as I'm generally a fan of 3M products. :) Can you recommend a decent supplier (read that as: Good price/service)? Thanks for the info! :cool:

[James Carmichael]

The odd thing is, that with the exception of the 40 micron, they all feel so smooth that you wonder how they could be doing anything, but trust me...they work!

It is amazing. I haven't tried the 3m yet, but did get some 2500-grit from HandAmerican.com (they must be revamping their site, nothing out there right now). The 2500 is around .5 micron, I believe.

I see knocks on SS because of the "expense and setup time", but I find the finer grits of (800 and up) last an awfully long time. I keep a phenolic plate loaded with 1000, 1500, 2000, and 2500 grits and have been using the same sheets of first three for 5 months now to hone and touchup, they're still going strong. The 2500 is pricier PSA which I use only to strop chisels that will be used on very soft wood (cedar, mostly). I do use up the 100 - 600 paper pretty fast when regrinding a bevel or lapping backs.

Counting a jig that I hardly use and phenolic plate, I've got maybe $30 invested my sharpening setup.

[Dean Baumgartner]

As a follow up especially to Carol who seems to have used the finer abrasives, how much difference is there beyond 1000 grit? That's as fine as the assorted pack I got went and even going that fine was pretty incredible. Is there a big difference as you go progressively finer?

Thanks,

Dean

[Maurice Ungaro]

"Is there a big difference as you go progressively finer?"

- In a word: YES!

Try going up to 2000 grit, and the mirror finish on a chisel will allow you to see your nose hairs.

Maurice

[Pam Niedermayer]

...Another WW I ran into a couple weeks ago at the local Woodcraft, highly recomends the LN scraper plane as an alternate to the usual sandpaper. Ju$t a bit too $teep for my budget at the moment! ...

The LV scraper plane is getting great reviews (from other woodworkers) these days, and has some features not on the LN. It's also not quite so large a wallet dent.

LV Scraper Plane (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=48431&category=1,41182,48945&ccurrency=2&SID=UCT9DUJ9DC)

Pam

[Tyler Howell]

For my Neander unplugged class we switch over to 1200, 4000 & 6000 stones at this point. Went through a whole movie and the tonight show trying to get the results our instructor says we should on three irons. Lapping lapping and more lapping, very theraputic but a bit frustrating. The scay part is I grabbed the block plane and bench chisels to augment my window trim out project.

[Tom LaRussa]

I'd love a nice LN or two or even a couple of the older Stanley units.
So what's stopping you man? I've picked up a #4, (smoothie), #5, (sorta in betweener), #7, (big ol' joiner), and #80, (cabinet scraper), for a total of about $100 -- including shipping.

That's less than the price of a single Forrest TS blade!



Another WW I ran into a couple weeks ago at the local Woodcraft, highly recomends the LN scraper plane as an alternate to the usual sandpaper. Ju$t a bit too $teep for my budget at the moment!
Well then, fire up them electron burners and build yourself one of these: http://www.popularwoodworking.com/features/printable.asp?id=1093

The Pop Woodworking Scrap Wood Scraper Plane!

[Tom LaRussa]

Carole, you say these 3M abrasives were developed for the SS method. That's cool, as I'm generally a fan of 3M products. :) Can you recommend a decent supplier (read that as: Good price/service)? Thanks for the info! :cool:
I just posted this the other day:

Scary Sharp Supplies Cheap!
<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->The first one only qualifies as cheap(er). The second is pretty cheap.

3M Lapping Films -- priced just above a buck per sheet, okay to order single sheets. http://rshughes.com/catalog/117650.html

Rhynowet Redline Sheets (9"x11") in 500, 1000, 1500, 2000, & 2500 grits, priced at $4.00 for 10 sheets. http://myshoppersguide.com/webstore...23&Item_ID=1097 (http://myshoppersguide.com/webstores/stores_app/Browse_Item_Details.asp?Shopper_id=676610513441767 66&Store_id=109&page_id=23&Item_ID=1097)

[Dean Baumgartner]

I understand the part about going to finer abrasives improving the mirror finish on the blade, the real question is does this have any noticable effect on the ability to cut better.

Thanks,
Dean

[Ed Breen]

When I read several posts the other day re: sharpening i was struck with the part about working on the back of the chisels. I've never had much luck at using my marples and sandvvicks but when I went home I took a marple and started with the back on a small stone. Wow, at first I saw nothing and then as I worked the entire back began to show the signsd of the lapping. Thanks to all for a major step in my education.
Ed :)

[John Miliunas]

I just posted this the other day:

Scary Sharp Supplies Cheap!
<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->The first one only qualifies as cheap(er). The second is pretty cheap.

3M Lapping Films -- priced just above a buck per sheet, okay to order single sheets. http://rshughes.com/catalog/117650.html

Rhynowet Redline Sheets (9"x11") in 500, 1000, 1500, 2000, & 2500 grits, priced at $4.00 for 10 sheets. http://myshoppersguide.com/webstore...23&Item_ID=1097 (http://myshoppersguide.com/webstores/stores_app/Browse_Item_Details.asp?Shopper_id=676610513441767 66&Store_id=109&page_id=23&Item_ID=1097)

Thanks Tom! Will have to check that out. :cool:

[Tyler Howell]

According to the Neander instructor. Each little ridge stands out alone kinda like a finger. Unlike a solid fist it is weak and subject to break off. As you hone and polish the edge you have fewer ridges and one solid edge of steal that stays sharp longer;)

[Carole Valentine]

I haven't compared prices, but I got mine from Joel at "toolsforworkingwood" (can't post an actual link but you can figure that one out ;)) Service can't be beat and you should take a look at their sharpening turtorial.

[Maurice Ungaro]

Dean,
I'll echo what Tyler stated. The mirror finish is the end of the polishing cycle. Just like you move to a successively higher grit to remove scratches from the previous sanding agent, the grits above 1000 take it to the ultimate finish and hence, remove the tee-niny little scratches that are barely visible. This in turn gives a tremendous cutting edge, as practically nothing is holding it back.

You might want to visualize this parallel: Think of aerodynamics, particularly with the body of an airplane, or even the aquadynamics of a boat's hull. If either surface is uneven, pitted, or grunged-up, the craft wil not perform to the best of it's ability. Now, wax the heck out of that fusilage & wings, or that boat hull, and you'll see a tremendous increase in performance (probably more with the boat than the plane). Ask Tyler, he can tell you about waxing boat hulls.

Good luck, have fun, and remember, only dull blades have the true potential to hurt you!

Maurice

[Carole Valentine]

Yes. Like you, I started with regular sand paper up to 1000 grit. IMO, there is no comparison to the edge you get with the micro-abrasive film. I have waterstones but almost always use SS.

[Michael Campbell]

Dean,
I'll echo what Tyler stated. The mirror finish is the end of the polishing cycle. Just like you move to a successively higher grit to remove scratches from the previous sanding agent, the grits above 1000 take it to the ultimate finish and hence, remove the tee-niny little scratches that are barely visible. This in turn gives a tremendous cutting edge, as practically nothing is holding it back.

You might want to visualize this parallel: Think of aerodynamics, particularly with the body of an airplane, or even the aquadynamics of a boat's hull. If either surface is uneven, pitted, or grunged-up, the craft wil not perform to the best of it's ability. Now, wax the heck out of that fusilage & wings, or that boat hull, and you'll see a tremendous increase in performance (probably more with the boat than the plane). Ask Tyler, he can tell you about waxing boat hulls.

Good luck, have fun, and remember, only dull blades have the true potential to hurt you!

Maurice


There's a very real limit to this however; in fluid dynamics the fluid doesn't (appreciably) degrade the surface. Yes, yes, I know that over time it can, but let's not split hairs; I mean the first time it's used.

You can get a chisel to some crazy sharpness that's only detectable with an electron microscope in zero gravity with a perfect vacuum or some such sillyness. But.... the /FIRST/ time it hits any wood, it's back down to what you'd do with <X> grit sandpaper. What X is, I can't say.

The point here is that there's a point at which yes, you can get a blade "sharper", but it doesn't matter since the first time it cuts, it's back down some other easier to attain (and MAINtain) point.

Personally, I go up to 2500 because that's the highest I could get pretty cheaply, and it only takes me another 10 seconds to do that vs. stopping at 2000. I can spare the 10 seconds.

From the absolute worst chisel to my desired sharpness is very short; 2 mins tops. After I grind a new bevel on (if that's necessary, which I'm not including in the 2 minutes), I don't spend more than 10-15 strokes on each of the grits of paper. That's all that's needed. I don't even glue them down; from one grit to the next is just laying the paper down on the previous one. The "grit" from the previous paper holds everything from slipping well enough.

I took the Highland Hardware Frank Klausz dovetail class (&lt;gloat&gt;), and he complimented me on the sharpness of my chisels, so at least my story has corroborating evidence. =)