Turning Boxes

[Steve Streck]

I'm new at turning. I am trying to make a simple box, my first, with a small walnut blank. I attached it (the end grain) to a face plate with both tape and three 3/4" screws. I don't have a chuck. I turned the piece into a cylinder and started to hollow the end grain to make the lid. My intention was to turn most of the lid, part it off, turn the top of the box so I could fit the lid onto it, finish turning the lid, then hollow out the bottom of the box and part it off. I got as far as hollowing out the lid when the piece came off the faceplate.

Turning end grain seems impossible. I tried very sharp spindle and bowl gouges, but had little success. It put so much pressure on the blank that, again, it came off the faceplate. How does one turn the end grain? Like I said, I am new to turning, so I'd appreciate your advice. Thanks.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Steve - Welcome to the Creek!

Turning end grain boxes is a lot easier with a chuck - come to think of it, using a chuck is the only way I have turned boxes. The problem with using a faceplate is that the screws are not designed to hold in end grain and will work themselves loose because of the pressures applied when turning.

Hopefully someone else will jump in here with some ideas for you.

Again - Welcome to the Creek! Looking forward to seeing some of your work!

[Dick Strauss]

Steve Schlumpf is right...screws don't hold in end-grain and it is much easier turning a box with a chuck. You could turn the box between centers but you'd need to make some sort of jam chuck to remove the dents from the live center and spur center.

[Baxter Smith]

Hi Steve
I'm a new turner too but enjoy tring to figure out things I know nothing about!
Since the previous reccomendation was to jump in with an idea, and nothing was mentioned about it being a good one, how about this. Could you turn say a 1 inch diameter tenon on the end of your blank about 3/4 of an inch long. Then drill a 1 inch hole through a round 3/4 inch board cut slightly larger in diameter than your faceplate. Glue the tenon into the hole and give it 24 hours. You then have a sidegrain to sidegrain glue surface and a screw to sidegrain hold on the faceplate. You could change the measurments I gave to whatever you think is necessary depending on how big your box is. If you used a piece of oak or something similar for your face plate I think it would take a lot of torque.

Goodluck with whatever good suggestion you get!

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I'm far from a pro, but I will suggest that you get a scroll chuck. I tried for a long time to manage without one, and boy did it open up a lot when I got my first chuck. For boxes, you need to turn the lid, turn the base, then reverse and finish turn the lid. Very time consuming with a faceplate. You can glue block it, but that adds more time, and can't reverse the lid on a faceplate. You'll need a jam or friction chuck for that. I learned from a DVD that you can friction fit (I use tape) the cap onto the base, and finish turn it that way.

Tha being said, you didn't mention what lathe. It really doesn't matter I guess. For big lathes, Woodcraft has the Supernova chuck on sale for 139, a very good deal IMO. I just bought one. They also have the Midi, for mini lathes, but that uses tommy bars, but is very cheap at 69 (I think). Either way getting a chuck will make turning even more fun than it is now. I think it's a worthy investment. Novas are not the best chuck, but I think they offer a lot of bang for the buck. Even more so on sale. :)

Just my $.02.

[Bill Blasic]

I have used the chucks from the big three chuck makers and I would tell you that a chuck from any of the three would be a good choice. I got my first chuck when I bought my DVR, it came with a Nova chuck. I have since bought 13 more various Nova Chucks (I don't like changing jaws). The Nova jaws fit all of the chucks up and down the line. The only exception is the Titan Powergrip jaws only fit the Titan. Chucks are like cars everybody thinks theirs is the best for what ever reason. What is more important about chucks is that you learn to cut the right tenon to what ever jaws you are using. A correctly cut tenon will make a huge difference in the holding power of your chuck.
Bill

[Mark Hix]

Just a thought here.....glue the blank to a waste block on both ends. Mount it to the faceplate so you do not have worry about endgrain in the screws. Mount it on the lathe and use the tail stock for support.

Shape the outside the way you want it and part off the lid end. Finish hollowing the inside of the box, sand and finish the box complely but do not part it if off yet.

Mount the lid on the faceplate and complete the lid. Part it off the waste block. Remount the box on the faceplate and use it as a jam chuck to finish the top of the lid. If you have to, you can corrrect any little fit issues at this step. You could also wait to finish until this step if you are worried about the parts matching.

Part the box off the waste block and hand finish the bottom.

Worked for me for a while before I broke down and got a chuck.

Post us some photos!

[David Walser]

... Could you turn say a 1 inch diameter tenon on the end of your blank about 3/4 of an inch long. Then drill a 1 inch hole through a round 3/4 inch board cut slightly larger in diameter than your faceplate. Glue the tenon into the hole and give it 24 hours. You then have a sidegrain to sidegrain glue surface and a screw to sidegrain hold on the faceplate. You could change the measurments I gave to whatever you think is necessary depending on how big your box is. ...

The method recommended by Baxter is one of the ways boxes were turned before scroll chucks. Allow me to slightly reword his instructions:


Mount a glue block on a face plate. The glue block should be mounted in a face grain orientation (direction of the grain running perpendicular to the lathe's ways).
Mount the face plate/glue block onto the lathe and turn it round and true up the face.
Turn a small hole into the face of the glue block (using a Forstner bit mounted in your tailstock, if you'd like). The hole should be flat bottomed and sized appropriately for the box you plan on turning. 1" diameter with a 1/4" depth should suffice for most boxes. A 1/4" depth does not sound like much; in solid wood it should provide plenty of strength.
Turn your box blank round between centers. On one end, turn a tenon to match the hole in the glue block. The tenon should have a sharp, 90 degree shoulder. The tenon should NOT bottom out in the hole. You want the blank to be supported by the tenon AND the shoulder on the face of the glue block.
Glue the blank to the glue block. You can use yellow glue or CA glue if you're in a hurry.
Once the glue is cured, turn your box!

Notes:


This is NOT the only way to turn a box without using a scroll chuck. For example, you could simply glue a small blank to the face plate/glue block. This requires a the glue block being perfectly flat and is not as strong as using a tenon as described above. You could also get by with double-sided tape. This, too, is not as strong as using a tenon. However, since most new turners tend to be "harder" on their blanks than more experienced turners, I recommend using the tenon approach.
Scroll chucks are faster and more conveniant, but a glue block is stronger and more accurate. If you are turning several boxes and have access to several face plates (which can be purchased for less than the cost of a decent chuck), speed isn't much of an issue. You can set up your face plates/glue blocks in assembly line fashion.

Good luck!

[David Walser]

...

Turning end grain seems impossible. I tried very sharp spindle and bowl gouges, but had little success. It put so much pressure on the blank that, again, it came off the faceplate. How does one turn the end grain?...

Turning end grain is hard. Here are some tips to get you started:


Drill out the center. It's not cheating to use a drill to drill a depth hole. (If it's a large drill, you'll save a lot of time.) Drill down to within a 1/4" or so of where you want the inside bottom of the box to be. That'll leave enough room for clean up.
Cheat. Use a scraper. Yes, "real turners" use gouges for hollowing. In all the videos I've seen of Richard Raffan turning boxes (and I've seen several), he uses a scraper for some part of the hollowing. You can to. Honest. It's easier than using a gouge and, until you're good with a gouge, it'll leave a better surface.

If you don't have a small scraper, use a 1/2" skew laid flat on the tool rest as a "negative rake" scraper. It works great.

Take light cuts using your gouge. When using a gouge, be sure to take light cuts and cut in the right direction. When hollowing with a gouge, the right direction is from the center to the side. You can cut from bottom to top or top to bottom as long as you are going center out.

HTH

[Mike Wenman]

Recall having seen something similar to this at the San Diego County Fair one year and if memory still serves me correctly, here is what the gent there had done:

1. Mount your box stock between centers and turn a tenon on one end as previously mentioned at about 1" in diameter then set that aside.

2. Screw a piece of 4/4 or even 8/4 hardwood to your faceplate and true it up.

3. Glue another piece of hardwood to the block you just put on your faceplate and true that up and turn this second piece down to say no less than a 1-1/2" diameter.

4. Using a forstener bit, drill a 1", but no more than a 1-1/8" hole just thru the piece you had glued on but not into the base piece on your faceplate.

5. Take your faceplate with the blocks on it over to your bandsaw or thin kerf saw of your choice and CAREFULLY cut 2 intersecting kerfs (90 degrees).

6. Put a hoseclamp around the 1-1/2" dia turned section on your faceplate, insert your stock into the hole and gently tighten the hoseclamp.

7. Bring up your tailstock and even put a small piece of wood on the end between your stock and the live center to help avoid getting the dimple if you wish and begin to carefully turn with light cuts using sharp tools.

Best of luck to you.

[Mike Minto]

steve streck - i think you have the basic idea down regarding hollowing, and there are many good suggestions here in this thread to help you. another useful idea would be, if you are handy, to build a simple steady rest (you could do this for about $12) to help take some of the strain off the base/point of attachment of your box. also, if it is in the budget (i know you didn't ask directly about tools, and i've used a fingernail bowl gouge for lots of end grain turning) but if you intend to continue doing this sort of thing, invest in a ring tool or other tool designed specifically for turning end grain. good luck, and post a pic when you get done.

[Dave Rudy]

Please correct me if wrong, but it appears to me you have really asked two different questions? One has to do with hollowing end grain. The other has to do with how to hold the work while hollowing end grain.

Although I add yet another recommendation for getting a chuck, I want to make an observation about the hollowing part (which could be a major part of your problem). One fundamental turning principle is never cut end grain. You can read much and talk to many who have different ideas of the best way to hollow end grain. The Termite and Eliminator tools are excellent, as is the Rolly Munro tool. So are the Hunters. These are all round or ring tools. Some people swear by hook tools, although there is a steeper learning curve than with the round or ring tools.

But it is perfectly possible to hollow end grain successfully using a spindle gouge, so long as you cut side grain. That is, the tool does not go from the tailstock toward the headstock, but across the piece at an oblique angle.

Good is to watch demos by someone like Raffan or Ray Key or Allan Batty. Best is to join a local club and find an experienced turner or "mentor" who can show you, hands on, how to hollow.

HTH