Latest Issue of Woodworking

[Matt Meiser]

Is it me, or is this one of the most disappointing issues of a magazine ever printed. Its got exactly 2 projects. One is a stool that is kind of neat but nothing spectacular. The other is a shaker bench that has exactly 5 pieces of wood nailed together that could easily be in my daughter's kids woodworking book. Theres an article about "rethinking" handplanes, and one on BLO and IIRC, that's about it. :(

[Jim Watts]

It sounds like you were at least able to read yours. I only received about 3/4 of mine ( minor publishing glitch, apparently):

:eek:

[Don Selke]

Hi Matt:

I gave up on that magazine many,many months ago. In addition , I no longer get American Woodworker, Woodworkers Journal or Wood Magazine.
I think they are all suffering from the budget crisis.

[Walt Caza]

Spot-on Matt,
I really like the magazine, and there have been some strong issues,
but this current one is a dud for my taste.

I've started clockwatching when I open a fresh magazine, to try to get a sense of bang for a buck.
I blazed this one from cover to cover in no time flat.
And, I was none too entertained during the ride either.

I also found the projects weak.
Sure, they can't all be diamonds... but this one left me underwhelmed too.

For me, I find that I get railroaded into duds by subscribing.
If I had to make a purchase decision, standing at the newstand with this
issue of the magazine in hand, I could have easily resisted dragging it home.(where I am doomed to warehousing it forever)

Not a fan of sour grapes, but I have started letting some of my wood mag
subscriptions lapse. I am gonna go back to the days where I do not buy them all.
And you gotta convince me, one issue at a time, to part with my money. Even less attractive at the high cover rates.
So they better offer me some appealling content, to get my money.

I have some questions about who is running that show...
but I'll bite my tongue, discretion being the better part of valour.
better luck next mag,
Walt

[John Keeton]

+1 - very poor attempt on this one. I cancelled my FWW and for the amount of my refund bought WW and PWW. I have been fairly satisfied with PWW - not so much with WW, particularly this issue!

I think I am where Walt is. When these run out I am done. There is only so much time, and when I figure in the minutes (OK, hours!) that I am on SMC, and other research related computer time, my shop time begins to suffer.

I have also discovered that with my old age senility, I can pull a handful of old FWW issues from the shelf, and it is like I have never seen them before!:D

[Matt Stiegler]

IIRC Chris Schwarz's blog recently apologized for him being a crummy editor etc recently due to all the time he put into the new book he co-wrote with Joel Moskowitz. Maybe an acknowledgment that this issue isn't up to par.

[Matt Meiser]

I hear you on letting them lapse. I let FWW lapse because IMHO it is not worth $35/year. Cover price is up to $8 and no issue has been worth that. Maybe I'll start going to the library to read it but I'm no longer a paying reader. I think I renewed Wood after letting it lapse for a while because my daughter's Brownie troop had a magazine sale. I also ordered Woodshop News for something different to try. I still get Pop Woodworking and am basically satisfied.

Woodworking was great to start and seems to have been getting weaker but really hit the skids this time.

[Sam Hatfield]

I let Woodworking lapse several months ago at the time I thought it was just me. I am still happy with PW.

[Jim Rimmer]

+1 - very poor attempt on this one. I cancelled my FWW and for the amount of my refund bought WW and PWW. I have been fairly satisfied with PWW - not so much with WW, particularly this issue!

I think I am where Walt is. When these run out I am done. There is only so much time, and when I figure in the minutes (OK, hours!) that I am on SMC, and other research related computer time, my shop time begins to suffer.

I have also discovered that with my old age senility, I can pull a handful of old FWW issues from the shelf, and it is like I have never seen them before!:D
Don't mean to steal the thread, but, John, nice new avatar.

[george wilson]

Come on,guys! they said the Chinese stool was TRICKY! I let mine lapse too. Surprised that I am still getting them.

[Ron Bontz]

I picked up a copy of Woodworking today at a store while waiting to get new tires. Inside it says they no longer sell subscriptions. And as I recall they are only going to print once a year I think. :(

[Alan Schwabacher]

I think you might have picked up woodwork. This is a magazine that died, and is trying to rise from the dead. http://www.woodwork-magazine.com/

Woodworking magazine is associated with popular woodworking. http://popularwoodworking.com/wwmhomepage

I like it, and enjoyed this issue, though I agree others have been better. I hope it continues.

[John Keeton]

Don't mean to steal the thread, but, John, nice new avatar.Jim, it was time folks saw another side of me - the front!:D With 13 grandkids, we have literally thousands of pics on our computer, and I think there are two of me, and now you have seen both!

[Richard Wagner]

I hear you on letting them lapse. I let FWW lapse because IMHO it is not worth $35/year. Cover price is up to $8 and no issue has been worth that. Maybe I'll start going to the library to read it but I'm no longer a paying reader. I think I renewed Wood after letting it lapse for a while because my daughter's Brownie troop had a magazine sale. I also ordered Woodshop News for something different to try. I still get Pop Woodworking and am basically satisfied.

Woodworking was great to start and seems to have been getting weaker but really hit the skids this time.

I do all of my editing at Barnes and Nobel. That way if I find a good issue I can purchase it and have it for later reference.

The only subscription I now have is Wood.

[Scott Vigder]

The only subscription I have left is to Woodsmith. It always has well-drawn plans for the projects. I just finished building the workbench on the cover of No. 173.

And it has no advertising!

Otherwise, I peruse the usual suspects at Barnes and Noble. It's been a few months since any of them caught my fancy.

[Chris Friesen]

Is it me, or is this one of the most disappointing issues of a magazine ever printed. Its got exactly 2 projects. One is a stool that is kind of neat but nothing spectacular. The other is a shaker bench that has exactly 5 pieces of wood nailed together that could easily be in my daughter's kids woodworking book. Theres an article about "rethinking" handplanes, and one on BLO and IIRC, that's about it. :(

I really liked the stool article. Seems like it would be a challenge to do it well. There was also the article on liquid hide glue, no?

I agree though, it was weaker than some of the other issues.

May I suggest you email Chris Schwarz? He's usually pretty responsive.

[Matt Meiser]

I forgot the glue article.

I did email Chris last night basically saying that I was pretty disappointed and felt the magazine had gone downhill from a great start and that I hoped they would rescue it like they did PWW. I heard back from him at 7 this morning. To paraphrase the response--my interests probably changed, his interests probably changed, he prints what he wants, not to satisfy a survey and sorry I was disappointed.

Chris is a really nice guy and very knowledgeable. Hopefully he's just got too much on his plate.

[John Keeton]

There was also the article on liquid hide glue, no?


I forgot the glue article.

Chris is a really nice guy and very knowledgeable. Hopefully he's just got too much on his plate.I do agree that Chris is a very nice, and talented fellow, and I am sure there are reasons for the diminished quality of the publication.

On the glue "article", that was more of a review of information that has been discussed in other publications for a few years. I doubt that it provided anything new or innovative to the general demographics that would subscribe to or buy Woodworking. I realize that is a generalized statement, and I could be wrong.

I just hope that this is a bump in the road, and the quality improves. I certainly have enjoyed prior issues.

[Dick Sylvan]

The only subscription I have left is to Woodsmith. It always has well-drawn plans for the projects. I just finished building the workbench on the cover of No. 173.

And it has no advertising!

Otherwise, I peruse the usual suspects at Barnes and Noble. It's been a few months since any of them caught my fancy.

I don't much like the topics covered in WW, so I don't read it. I still get FWW, Pop Wood, Wood, and WWJ. They seem to come in and out of favor with me over time. I'm sure I am excessive with four subs, but I think that as woodworkers each of us ought to subscribe to at least one or two to support a hobby we all love. Just like local newspapers are slowly disappearing, so are many magazines and I would hate to see no WW mags available in the future or ones focused only on beginners.

[John Shuk]

And here I am thinking that a 5 board plan sounds intriguing. Magazine biz is a tough one these days. In theory I do like the idea of an editor placing content which satisfies them. Kind of a blog that can be held kind of thing.

[Don Morris]

And I was going to let my subscription to Woodsmith lapse and go to FWW because of the same complaint you guys had with all the others. I guess I have come to the conclusion it might be better to let them all lapse and buy the one, two or three individual issues of "whatever" a year on the stand that has something in it that attracts my attention. Obviously, no one mag. does it yearly well enough. It's similar to the music industry which has found that people don't want to buy a whole album (issue) because there is usually only one or two songs on it that they want. I get Woodsmith and frequently several issues go by before something in it comes along that I really get excited about and want to build. After listening to others, now I'm convinced I need to look at them all to find if there is "anything" in any of them I want. It means going to the library and more work on my part, but guess that comes with the territory.

[Keith Christopher]

I get woodsmith, wood mag (was a gift for 2 yrs), and handy mag ( I like the new tool reviews.)

I think woodsmith is the best too IMHO. I like seeing the techniques. People are SO creative.

[Matthew Hills]

What aspects of the early issues did you guys like?

Matt

[Ron Bontz]

Thanks Alan. My mistake.:o

[Steve Rowe]

I am glad I am not alone in this. Over the past 3-4 years there has been a noticable decline in the quality of all the woodworking magazines. As a result, I have let all my subscriptions lapse. The reason is not the economy or the unavailability of funds, it is poor product quality. I looked at a copy of FWW after a 1 year lapse and noted that I haven't missed a thing. All the other woodworking mags suffer from the same ills. Unless they significantly improve the quality of the product they produce, they will soon produce no more.
Steve

[Christopher Pine]

I dropped all but Wood and Woodsmith years ago. I doubt I will ever get Pop Woodowkring ever again as they discusted me about 15 years ago and when I have occasionally looked at there magazine on the shelf it has not made me change my mind since. The last straw was when they published an article on building a ladder! Thats it cancel! Also seen plans that included a lot of dowel construction which I also have no tolerance for. :)
A lot of the choices are taste and I realize that we all have different ones. I have always really liked Woodsmith... I would pay higher for it as it is also not stuffed full with ads either. I still like wood too. some issues are week but mostly I still like it.
Chris

[Eric Sayre]

I am glad I am not alone in this. Over the past 3-4 years there has been a noticable decline in the quality of all the woodworking magazines. As a result, I have let all my subscriptions lapse. The reason is not the economy or the unavailability of funds, it is poor product quality. I looked at a copy of FWW after a 1 year lapse and noted that I haven't missed a thing. All the other woodworking mags suffer from the same ills. Unless they significantly improve the quality of the product they produce, they will soon produce no more.
Steve

You are correct about the quality. The economy is to blame for this, but not just the recent economy.

I've been in magazine printing for 20 years, and this year we closed our plant, along with 4-5 others in the company due to the decline in subscription rates, page counts, and magazines "just going under." It's not over yet, and it started about 6-7 years ago.

As you've said, the last 3-4 years have been very bad for quality. Magazines make most of their money from advertisements and the internet has taken over a once prosperous magazine advertisement market. It's kind of like a forum - you take away the ads & the contributions have to be increased.

Book size and paper quality has been reduced to make up for postal costs - Which can be a large percentage of the cover price.

I don't know where magazines are headed, but without the "powerful" ad market of 10 years ago, cover prices will continue to climb and quality will continue to decline.

[Steve Rowe]

You are correct about the quality. The economy is to blame for this, but not just the recent economy.

I've been in magazine printing for 20 years, and this year we closed our plant, along with 4-5 others in the company due to the decline in subscription rates, page counts, and magazines "just going under." It's not over yet, and it started about 6-7 years ago.

As you've said, the last 3-4 years have been very bad for quality. Magazines make most of their money from advertisements and the internet has taken over a once prosperous magazine advertisement market. It's kind of like a forum - you take away the ads & the contributions have to be increased.

Book size and paper quality has been reduced to make up for postal costs - Which can be a large percentage of the cover price.

I don't know where magazines are headed, but without the "powerful" ad market of 10 years ago, cover prices will continue to climb and quality will continue to decline.
Thanks Eric. It is good to have the perspective from the printing side of things. Perhaps I chose the incorrect descriptor on the "economy". What I meant was that it was not my own personal ability to pay for the magazine. I guess it was just my micro-economy. With respect to the quality, I really wasn't referring to the quality of the paper, size or printing of the magazine. I was referring to the quality of the content and articles. It just doesn't meet the standards they once did. Hope this clarifies things.
Steve

[Ken Garlock]

Consider that maybe the magazine quality hasn't gone down. Rather you have learned a lot and obtained skills over years that now make the current issues trivial compared those of the past. :confused:

Yes, this issue of Woodworking was rather thin. I don't give a hoot about hide glue, that is 100 year old technology. With the multitude of glues and epoxy available today, an expose' on hide glue is a waste of paper. (Before you all get you sandpaper in a knot, yes I can see a use for hide glue in repairing antique furniture in order to maintain authenticity.)
I do like the letters and tips articles. I enjoyed the one pager by Megan Fitzpatrick, not for its technical content but for its human interest side.

I am surprised that Chris replied to Matt's Email in such a terse manner. An attitude of I'll do what I want is a sure way to kill the magazine. He needs to realize that he is in the customer service business and he should publish a product that meets or exceeds the customers/readers expectation.:(

[Walt Caza]

--my interests probably changed, his interests probably changed, he prints what he wants, not to satisfy a survey and sorry I was disappointed.

Chris is a really nice guy and very knowledgeable. Hopefully he's just got too much on his plate.

Jeepers,
I wish I had not read C.S.'s response to your disappointment in his mag.
I find that disturbing.

An underwhelming response, to his underwhelming magazine issue.
Perhaps we have uncovered other 'issues'.

Let me check his questions:
No, my interest in a good solid woodworking magazine has Not changed.
What, his interest in putting out a worthy and decent mag has changed?
It's not a change of Chris's interest, but the lack of quality and quantity of content.
Are you kidding me?

Then I would like the balance of my money back, please.
If he claims not to be interested in what his mag buyers want to read,
perhaps the mag business is not the best path for him?
Maybe they could have printed that on the endless subscription cards
they flung at me?

Oh, and continue to fling.
Chris doesn't care what it is you want to read woodworkers, but rather will
spew at his whim. Is he proud of the mag issue in question?

Sorry is really not adequate. Shrugs are not enough.
How about an admission that the content was conspicuously lacking?
Admit that the trend has been undeniably downhill.
And an assurance that it will swing back to respectable,
and price justifiable?

Ick! Now I feel unwilling to just let mine lapse.
I want a refund of the balance of my subscription now.

Hey, I'm not a negative guy.
I would prefer to continue to enjoy Woodworking magazine.
I wish they had kept the course of the early strong issues.
When you relentlessly hound me to subscribe,
and I agree to pay you in advance, there is a trust that
you will continue to provide your customer with a reasonable exchange of value.

I'm not some crackpot. I am sorry to feel this way.
But I do not see any choice but for me to make a cancel call.
hrrrumph
not a pleasant turn,
YMMV
Walt

ps First time I use the thumbs down icon.
I've made 625 posts on this wood forum, and this is the first and only
negative posting. So don't be so quick to think it's just me, I'm some complainer.
whew

[Eric Sayre]

Thanks Eric. It is good to have the perspective from the printing side of things. Perhaps I chose the incorrect descriptor on the "economy". What I meant was that it was not my own personal ability to pay for the magazine. I guess it was just my micro-economy. With respect to the quality, I really wasn't referring to the quality of the paper, size or printing of the magazine. I was referring to the quality of the content and articles. It just doesn't meet the standards they once did. Hope this clarifies things.
Steve

Steve, I was just kind of building on what you said.

The quality is an issue that starts with the publisher. The printing and binding quality are affected by the "cheap" materials, that is true. It is very depressing, however, to look at overruns/backissues from a few years back and compare the contents (and size) of the magazines to what they are now.

An old rule of thumb is: 2 pgs of edit to every 1 page of ads. When the ads drop, so does the readable content.

I'm afraid the only way that magazines will truly survive the loss of ad content is to drive up the cover price. Woodworking magazines, as a rule, are leaner on ads and heavier on price, so hopefully things may turn around with the upturn of the economy!

[Matt Stiegler]

Jeepers,
I wish I had not read C.S.'s response to your disappointment in his mag.
I find that disturbing.

An underwhelming response, to his underwhelming magazine issue.
Perhaps we have uncovered other 'issues'.

Let me check his questions:
No, my interest in a good solid woodworking magazine has Not changed.
What, his interest in putting out a worthy and decent mag has changed?
It's not a change of Chris's interest, but the lack of quality and quantity of content.
Are you kidding me?

Then I would like the balance of my money back, please.
If he claims not to be interested in what his mag buyers want to read,
perhaps the mag business is not the best path for him?
Maybe they could have printed that on the endless subscription cards
they flung at me?

Oh, and continue to fling.
Chris doesn't care what it is you want to read woodworkers, but rather will
spew at his whim. Is he proud of the mag issue in question?

Sorry is really not adequate. Shrugs are not enough.
How about an admission that the content was conspicuously lacking?
Admit that the trend has been undeniably downhill.
And an assurance that it will swing back to respectable,
and price justifiable?

Ick! Now I feel unwilling to just let mine lapse.
I want a refund of the balance of my subscription now.

Hey, I'm not a negative guy.
I would prefer to continue to enjoy Woodworking magazine.
I wish they had kept the course of the early strong issues.
When you relentlessly hound me to subscribe,
and I agree to pay you in advance, there is a trust that
you will continue to provide your customer with a reasonable exchange of value.

I'm not some crackpot. I am sorry to feel this way.
But I do not see any choice but for me to make a cancel call.
hrrrumph
not a pleasant turn,
YMMV
Walt

ps First time I use the thumbs down icon.
I've made 625 posts on this wood forum, and this is the first and only
negative posting. So don't be so quick to think it's just me, I'm some complainer.
whew

Whoa, Walt. Strange post. Myself, I wouldn't get that worked up over one person's brief paraphrase of an email. If you don't like the magazine, by all means cancel it, but basing that decision on Matt's post seems like an overreaction to me.

FWIW, I don't get the magazine, but I read his WW mag blog (http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/) and have read his workbench and handplanes books. I've found them singularly informative. YMMV.

[Christopher Schwarz]

Anyone can have their money back at any time. Get three issues, call our subscription department, and you'll get the full subscription price refunded.

I think that's fair.

Don't like what's in the magazine? E-mail me and you'll get an honest reply. I'm not going to blow smoke at you about how we'll promise to do exactly what you want. Any publication that says that is ... blowing smoke.

You see, I've been in media and woodworking my entire life. I know that I cannot please everyone. But because I am a crazy passionate woodworker I can print stuff that I am crazy and passionate about.

Maybe you'll come along. Maybe you won't

If you don't like it, I'm sorry. You can have all your money back.

But I won't run a business based on reader surveys. Have you ever read one of these? I've read dozens. Every issue of the magazine would have an Adirondack chair, a birdhouse and an article on tuning up your table saw. Over and over.

So, a couple points: If you can build that Chinese stool from the cover without plans or guidance, then you don't need any woodworking magazine. That thing kicked my butt and taught me a few good lessons on compound joinery.

Do you know how to make your own liquid hide glue? Without an expiration date? That's what the article on hide glue is about. Not a respouting of everything that's been published before.

And the White Water Shaker Bench? Every issue has an article for beginners. We try to talk to a wide range of skills.

So that's the full story on this issue. I'm sorry you guys don't like the issue. I personally do. And I learned a lot by writing, reading and editing it. And if you have a complaint, drop me a line. I answer every e-mail.

All the best,

Chris

[Matt Meiser]

Guys, keep in mind that I summarized a 3 paragraph response from Chris in one sentence. Paraphrase might have been a poor choice of words. As Chris said, he did give me an honest reply.

I don't quite get how you can put out a magazine if you don't care what the readers think, but having the ability to get paid to follow your passion without having to answer to someone would be anyone's dream job.

[Bob Lang]

You e-mail the editor of a magazine in the evening and get a personal response first thing the next morning. How does that equate to a guy who "doesn't care what his readers think"? Try to even find the e-mail address of an editor at any other magazine. Disagreeing with the answer you get doesn't mean you're right and Chris is wrong, it only means you disagree.

We can't please everyone, every issue but I think that on the whole we do pretty well. We operate a little differently than other publications. Editorial decisions are made by editors who are confident in their experience and passionate about the craft, not by marketing people who need surveys to connect with their audience.

Bob Lang

[Jim Watts]

You e-mail the editor of a magazine in the evening and get a personal response first thing the next morning. How does that equate to a guy who "doesn't care what his readers think"? Try to even find the e-mail address of an editor at any other magazine. Disagreeing with the answer you get doesn't mean you're right and Chris is wrong, it only means you disagree.

We can't please everyone, every issue but I think that on the whole we do pretty well. We operate a little differently than other publications. Editorial decisions are made by editors who are confident in their experience and passionate about the craft, not by marketing people who need surveys to connect with their audience.

Bob Lang

Bob appears to be the Sr. Editor of Woodworking Mag. (and apparently PW):

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/contactus

[Dave Lehnert]

I also am in the process of letting my magazines run out. I don't think the problem is so much the content has declined but the Internet is so instant. When a magazine comes out with info on the new Delta Unisaw, that info is two month old for us SMC users.

I am keeping Popular Woodworking as I like what Chris S. and his team are doing for the craft. They just don't print a magazine, they are out teaching hands on also. They also often have events at their office for woodworkers. (It's good to live in Cincinnati:))

I was at Lowe's tonight and picked up Woodworking Magazine. I kinda liked it. I thought the info on hide glue was fresh and interesting.

[Matt Meiser]

That's not how I meant it Bob. What I meant is what Chris said--he's not putting out a magazine based on what his readers thing. For me, that would be like developing a software application that does what I want, not what the users want. Would be pretty cool!

[Dave Lehnert]

You e-mail the editor of a magazine in the evening and get a personal response first thing the next morning. How does that equate to a guy who "doesn't care what his readers think"? Try to even find the e-mail address of an editor at any other magazine. Disagreeing with the answer you get doesn't mean you're right and Chris is wrong, it only means you disagree.

We can't please everyone, every issue but I think that on the whole we do pretty well. We operate a little differently than other publications. Editorial decisions are made by editors who are confident in their experience and passionate about the craft, not by marketing people who need surveys to connect with their audience.

Bob Lang


I was up late one night and had a question on one of Chris workbenches. I e-mailed him like at 11pm and he got back to me in like 20min.

[Mark Carlson]

I got my issue yesterday and did a quick skim. I was interested in the articles and read a few and will save the rest for an upcoming flight. I get people's point about magazines and news papers going down hill but I don't think Woodworking falls in that camp. Don't get me started on what's happening to the LA Times.

I also agree with Chris's response that if you try and please everyone you end up pleasing no one.

~mark

[Steven DeMars]

Anyone can have their money back at any time. Get three issues, call our subscription department, and you'll get the full subscription price refunded.

I think that's fair.

Don't like what's in the magazine? E-mail me and you'll get an honest reply. I'm not going to blow smoke at you about how we'll promise to do exactly what you want. Any publication that says that is ... blowing smoke.

You see, I've been in media and woodworking my entire life. I know that I cannot please everyone. But because I am a crazy passionate woodworker I can print stuff that I am crazy and passionate about.

Maybe you'll come along. Maybe you won't

If you don't like it, I'm sorry. You can have all your money back.

But I won't run a business based on reader surveys. Have you ever read one of these? I've read dozens. Every issue of the magazine would have an Adirondack chair, a birdhouse and an article on tuning up your table saw. Over and over.

So, a couple points: If you can build that Chinese stool from the cover without plans or guidance, then you don't need any woodworking magazine. That thing kicked my butt and taught me a few good lessons on compound joinery.

Do you know how to make your own liquid hide glue? Without an expiration date? That's what the article on hide glue is about. Not a respouting of everything that's been published before.

And the White Water Shaker Bench? Every issue has an article for beginners. We try to talk to a wide range of skills.

So that's the full story on this issue. I'm sorry you guys don't like the issue. I personally do. And I learned a lot by writing, reading and editing it. And if you have a complaint, drop me a line. I answer every e-mail.

All the best,

Chris

I have purchased Chris' Hand Plane Essentials & Workbenches. I also subscribe to Popular Woodworking. And now thanks to this thread I will now subscribe to Woodworking . . . Why, I need some easy stuff . . .:)

My opinion only . . .

Problem is the majority of "woodworkers" have never heard of this great forum we have, SAWMILL CREEK. We have access to so much information through all the superb woodworkers that frequent this site that much of what appears in a magazine is old news to you guys . . . not to mention your skill levels are leaps beyond someone like myself . . . but I'm still a "woodworker" . . . If you don't consider an amateur a woodworker, just remember us "newbies" buy a heck of lot more tools that the small number of "pros" . .

So how does Chris convince Delta to run an ad in his magazine when he has to run ONLY projects that challenge "HIM" . . .

Every time I run into some one anywhere, shopping, work, etc . . if they say anything about woodworking I instantly tell them about SAWMILL CREEK.

Example, ever notice how when you read the newspaper now days, you realize that you read the same article two days prior on the news website of your choice. One day in the not to distant future we will all miss that newspaper when it is finally put to rest.

BTW - Anyone tried finding a movie listing/times online lately . . . I'll take the newspaper movie listings/times anyday . . .

I have stacks of woodworking magazines. I can always go back to them for ideas. Or when someone on SAWMILL CREEK mentions how great a project is, sure is nice to did through the stack and find it . . .

So good luck everyone trying to scan through your old CD archives when magazines are finally gone . . . Paper does not change "read" format every 10 years . . .

Don't forget what happened to the local hardware store or the local lumber store . . . Good luck on getting decent materials at the Borg . . .

Excuse my rambling, there is a point up . . .

Steve

[Dave Beauchesne]

I liked Steven DeMars response:

''I have purchased Chris' Hand Plane Essentials & Workbenches. I also subscribe to Popular Woodworking. And now thanks to this thread I will now subscribe to Woodworking . . . Why, I need some easy stuff . . .:)

My opinion only . . .

Problem is the majority of "woodworkers" have never heard of this great forum we have, SAWMILL CREEK. We have access to so much information through all the superb woodworkers that frequent this site that much of what appears in a magazine is old news to you guys . . . not to mention your skill levels are leaps beyond someone like myself . . . but I'm still a "woodworker" . . . If you don't consider an amateur a woodworker, just remember us "newbies" buy a heck of lot more tools that the small number of "pros" . . ''

Personally, I really like WW magazine - It is refreshing and I have been a Chris Schwartz fan since the inception of WW. I just finished his book on handplanes - another yes vote.

As a woodworker who has several subscriptions, I think it goes this way - we LEARN a multitude of things off sites like SMC; the info goes into the RAM in our grey matter and even if you don't recall where you saw said info, if you pick up a hard copy and read something along the same lines, immediately there is a '' I've seen that before '' , and the article you are reading is ' old news '.

Look at this medium you are reading right now - instant just about everything - can't find something ? use the search function and there you go - multiple options to peruse. Imagine competeing against such a formidable foe.

Also, woodworking in general, while not a finite endeavour, is limited to some degree. How often does something come up that has not been done before? Most tools and projects are just adaptations of something that has been dreamt up and produced in the past, be it 1 day or 1000 years ago.

I agree that the last copy of WW was a bit thin, but I enjoyed it and the lack of advertising. When WW came out, sans advertising, I was skeptical to some degree ( Rob Lee tried it many years ago with I believe WOOCUTS (?? ) ) and it did not last too long, this without the ' free ' competition of the net ( at that time ).

I, for one, will continue looking forward to Woodworking Magazine, as well as the others I subscribe to. I have never met Chris, Bob, Ron Hock or Rob Lee, but the fact that they chime in regularly on this forum is in itself refreshing, and as people who sell their products in one form or another, are listening.

Personally, I am a Tradesman in the Pulp and Paper Industry - you think my workplace hasn't been affected ?? Absolutely. I wish there were an easy fix, but technology has changed all of our lives forever.

JMHO -

Dave Beauchesne

[chris weir]

I like the current issue- the Chinese stool looks to be a fascinating and puzzling project. My wife even picked up the magazine and has told me I need to make this stool. I'm sure I am not as skilled as most of the woodworkers at SMC, but this project looks like it would be fairly difficult for anyone.

As for the size and number of articles in the magazine- if you compare it to most other woodworking magazines and take out the ads and just look at the major articles- I think this magazine compares favorably.

[Don Morris]

My wife is the daughter of a Swedish cabinet maker, actually growing up walking ankle deep in shavings. She knows wood and appreciates quality wood projects. That's how I got interested in woodworking, through her father. She browes through my Woodsmith magazine when it comes. It was she who first noticed and commented that to her she saw a decline in quality projects over the years that seemed to have little application or were just woodshop projects. That's why I was going to let my subscription lapse and go to Fine Woodworking in the hopes that I would find more "Fine" projects. My woodshop is pretty complete, I'm looking for something in the "Fine" category thus the move to FWW. But I guess from the comments about FWW, it's gone the same route as WS. Maybe we need a magazine truly devoted to "Fine Wood Projects" with the emphasis on "Fine" meaning just that. It could come out less often as far as I'm converned too, if it meant the result was better.

[Kent Cartwright]

As my skills have increased, so has my choice of magazines. I find myself subscribed to only two now; FWW and Woodshop News. FWW usually does a nice job of providing projects all across the spectrum of difficuly, plus I like to see the reader's gallery for inspiration and that little nudge to keep improving. Woodshop News is an industry magazine and aimed at those in the business. Since my background and job is running a business, I find this interesting. I pick the other magazines up on a case-by-case basis. Things are too tight to do otherwise. Oh, and I did splurge on the FWW on-line subscription and have found it invaluable, especially when working on a new design.

[Harold Burrell]

Wow...this has been an interesting thread...

Really.

I can relate to all of the comments. I am not a publisher of any sort, nor do I even subscribe to Woodworking at the present (but I wouldn't mind a complimentary issue, CS, so I can check this thing out myself! ;)) What I am, however, is a pastor of a small country church.

What does that have to do with any of this, you say??? Well, I'll tell you...

Not so unlike the mag biz, I make a living dealing with and communicating to...people. I desperately care about these people and I want to give them something that is relative to "where they're at". However...what I give them has to first come from within. That is, I cannot (nor should I) try and communicate anything to anyone that I myself am not passionate about.

Certainly, I look for needs and try to fill them. However, for me to run "surveys" in my congregation to see what people want would be disasterous.

Bottomline...I cannot please everybody...as much as I would like to.

Somebody has to be responsible to make the decision as to distinquishing, and addressing, the need.

That "somebody" happens to be me. That's why they call me "pastor".

Likewise...when it comes to magazines...somebody has to make the final decision as to what to run and when. That "somebody" is called the editor. And there can only be one.

Anything apart from that would be a disaster.

Now...keep in mind...in my case, I am talking about a group of about 50-60 people. In CS's case, you would have to multiply that by thousands.

Then you might get an idea of where he's coming from.

Just my $.02...

[Brian Tymchak]

I have not yet perused my latest issue of Woodworking. Was looking forward to spending an easy evening this weekend with a couple Boston Lagers and do just that. But with all the "rave" reviews I've read on this thread, I guess I'd better figure out a backup just in case... Maybe that Sketch-Up for Dummies finally rises to the top of the pile.. :)

[Sean Hughto]

Very intelligent and well said post. Thanks.

[Sam Hatfield]

I could be taking this all wrong but I have viewed Chris S. as sort of a Mentor up unitl now. With what he has written as a response to this thread has made me very sad and confused. It will make me think twice in the future to purchase anything produced or endorsed by him.
Sam
:confused:

[David Keller NC]

But I won't run a business based on reader surveys. Have you ever read one of these? I've read dozens. Every issue of the magazine would have an Adirondack chair, a birdhouse and an article on tuning up your table saw. Over and over.



Just for the record and a strongly dissenting opinion than the majority on this thread. What Chris said above is precisely why I subscribe to both PWW and WW magazines. I have been a woodworker for 30 years, and there is little that I haven't tried in the shop. Whether or not I've succeeded at it is subject to interpretation.

But what I am absolutely sick of in woodworking magazine publications is project articles. That is not why I want a woodworking magazine - I want it for entertainment, perhaps make me reconsider on design strategy, and in some cases for inspiration. I do not need, nor do I want, precisely laid out plans for something or other with a cut list. While Chris does provide it because an awful lot of readers either choose not to use their brains and a piece of scrap paper and work up the dimensions of a piece based on their height and weight or the available stock, or they can't do it, I'm not sure of.

But I can say this with certainty - it is not appropriate to not have the ability to do this (scale and adjust dimensions throughout a project), and I am very grateful to the editors of Woodworking Mag and PWW for not taking up magazine space with lots of gratuitous photos of glue-ups and fold-out plans in the way that Fine Woodworking has gone. They instead use the blog and their website to provide this if you want it.

Finally, if you've ever made a 6-board chest entirely with hand tools, you will not consider a piece with nailed joinery to be either basic or simple. And there is something quite nice about the publication of an authentic Shaker piece that was heretofore unknown to the general woodworking community.

So in a very alternative opinion, I applaud Bob, Chris, Megan and Glen for the last issue. Keep up the good work.

[Alan Schaffter]

I take a number of the leading WW mags including PWW (not Woodworking) and have contributed to some. I see three issues here:

One problem with the woodworking magazine business, the staff editors (when did "writers" all become "editors"?) at some of magazines (not PWW/WW) are writers more than they are woodworkers. That doesn't appear true at PWW. It makes a difference in how articles are selected, developed, and written. Most magazines must depend on freelance or contributing editors to some degree.

Due to the availability of woodworking information from all media and the availability of a full range of reasonably priced tools, etc., the knowledge level and number of talented woodworkers has increased dramatically over the last 30 years. It isn't as easy as it once was to interest and entertain everyone in such a large audience. And what was primarily a Norm/Delta power tool woodworking audience now has a sizable (insert name Maloof, Krenov, etc.)/Lie Neilsen segment.

Some readers may be reaching content saturation due to magazines, DVD's, TV, the internet, WW schools, and even forums like this. Often, topics have been covered multiple times. WW magazine editors do not have a shortage of topics from which to choose, but there are few that haven't been covered in some way at some time already. This can be a problem with magazines like FWW, that at one time covered only high end woodworking techniques and projects. How many times can you do an article on building an 18th century high boy? In the case of PWW, they have considerable content online, and it is free! I don't know how they manage both. With one exception the other WW magazines provide free online content as well. I have seen a number of threads addressing the one magazine who charges for online access- those not willing to pay seem to outnumber those who subscribe.

I applaud Chris and Bob for responding. In reality, if you count the number of folks who were unhappy with Woodworking enough to post in this thread, it is a very small number. Along with the positive aspects of an online community, comes the negative. A bad review, true or not, can go viral all too quickly.

My only criticism with Chris and PWW are their failure to publish any of my tips or articles (yet)! (I had to go to a competitor but did get published) :D:D

[Wilbur Pan]

Here's one thing that I really like about Popular Woodworking and Woodworking Magazine more than Fine Woodworking. When I read an article in either Popular Woodworking and Woodworking Magazine, I get a real feel for the person writing the article. Glen Huey's writing style is quite different from Bob Lang's, and Chris Schwarz has a separate writing style, as does Megan Fitzpatrick. In Fine Woodworking, there is very much a "house style" for articles -- so much so that it almost doesn't matter who writes the article in the first place. They come out sounding pretty much the same.

As far as the editing by survey comment goes, I expect the editorial staff of a woodworking publication to come up with an interesting roster of topics. They should do that, since I would hope that the know a lot more about woodworking than I do. And I've found that just because I may not care for an article the first time I read it, that in no way means that it may not be useful for me in the future. Many times I've glossed over an article in a freshly delivered magazine and then find myself rereading the article several times in a row months later.

[Richard Gonzalez]

I think about it this way. A magazine issue costs me about the same as a meal at McDonalds. The meal has maybe 30 - 60 seconds worth of human effort. I would imagine that the typical issue of Woodworking probably involves hundreds, if not thousands of hours of work. The costs to me are the same and is not a major out of pocket expense. I'm sure the magazine is definitely better for my health and well being!

One of the things I really appreciate about Woodworking is the time and care they take in the very clean layout and typography and the fantastic quality of illustrations. I also appreciate their obvious passion, as is reflected in the "human" element they expose with their writing, both in the magazine and their excellent blogs. I love that there are no ads! I usually find it easy to remember from month to month that Forrest makes blades and Freud makes router bits.

Mr. Schwarz, Mr. Lang I salute you and your staff! And please know that this subscriber to both Woodworking and Popular Woodworking appreciates your work as both woodworkers and magazine publishers.

I may never make every project, or try every skill, but I learn from each issue and intend to continue doing so!

[Russ Kay]

Me, I'm just grateful that there are still some woodworking magazines to look at and choose from. I've read them all over the years, and I currently come back to PWW and Woodworking as my favorites. Neither is perfect, but they both have a lot of personality and opinion in addition to the inevitable tool reviews and project directions for things I'll probably never want to build.

I've been a writer/editor for computer magazines for the last 20 years, the last seven as a freelancer with declining revenues and available work. The magazine I used to work for full-time in 2000 was tabloid sized, weekly, and ran about 150 pages per issue. Now it's magazine size, comes out twice a month, and has 40-44 pages per issue. Have you looked at Newsweek or Time lately? The whole basis of magazine production, publishing, and finance has changed completely. The advertising that used to support staffs of writers and editors, together with long-range projects, just isn't there thanks to a massive turn to the Web (where too many people believe that all information should be free) as the major, often sole, outlet for advertising. That advertising-free magazines like Woodworking and Cooks Illustrated can make it and still get space on the newsstands is nothing short of a miracle, in my experience. I'm glad they're there, and I think they provide good value for money.

The decline in magazine publishing is just a fact of life. I'm mainly retired at this point, so I'm better off than many of my colleagues. I spend a lot of time sitting in front of my computer, but I also know that I much prefer magazines on paper, something I can hold in my hand or rest in my lap of an evening. Reading this way is a simple pleasure and way of living; it's been with me all my life and I'm sorry to see it going away.

-- Russ

[Ken Whitney]

I'm late to respond to this thread, but since it has carried on this long one more opinion won't hurt (emphasis on opinion).

I think PWW and WW are the two best woodworking magazines published today. I agree with David Keller about the Schwarz approach. Aside from providing interesting technical content, both magazines are thought provoking (as this thread is testimony to).

It is very difficult to find truly new content in the universe of woodworking magazines. Take a look at a few years worth of any of them, and you will find much repetition. And that is to be expected (although based on Chris' post I doubt we will be seeing an Adirondack chair in PWW or WW anytime soon).

What sets PWW and WW apart is the approach to the material. They provide context in the grand scheme of woodworking (history vs. modern practice), new ways to deal with old problems, old approaches with new materials, new materials with old approaches, etc., along with the typical content one expects.

The response here by two of the editors of those magazines is also noteworthy.

Ken

[Al Navas]

Another strong voice of support for the work at not only Woodworking Magazine, but also Popular Woodworking. Kudos to the Editors, Christopher Schwarz, Bob Land, Glen Huey, and Megan Fitzpatrick. But also to the Publisher, Steve Shanesy, who makes possible all the efforts of the Editors at the magazines.

I enjoy both magazines, and the content in them, even the "begginer's stuff". Beginners?...?? Well, maybe I must put another way. I have learned that even the suff for "beginners" is sometimes a wake-up call to me, a reminder that there just might be an easier way to do something more easily, or faster, or... you get the idea.

Rehashing stuff? Sure, but it is almost always in a new light, with a new, unexpected twist. Hide glue that does not expire? It defeats reasoning, but there we have it.

The article on the White Water Shaker Bench was for beginners? That was a new way to look at it. Sure, take some boards, make them flat somehow, and nail and glue them together, somehow. But, what if it is made using 14-foot boards? For beginners? ... hmmm. My shop does not have that kind of beginner's machinery.

Now to the nitty-gritty, and the heart of the issue.

By way of background: I ALWAYS refuse to reply to surveys, expecially on the phone, and in magazines.

I do NOT want The Schwarz, or anyone else, asking me in a survey what they should publish, or write about. In my mind, that is their job. Of course, it probably should be about woodworking - but I would not mind a bit if something not entirely related to woodworking is published in their magazines! Knowing a little bit about the authors, after several years reading their magazines, blogs, meeting them in person, etc., I believe they would always find a way to tie it all together, into a woodworking-related article.

Now, to an item already mentioned - my own experience, too: ALL the Editors will answer your questions, either via e-mail, or on the phone. Heck, most companies and places I call put me on hold, or make me select from endless menus, just to put me back into some sort of machine. You will rarely encounter the kind of support you can get from the guys at PWW and WW magazines, always timely, unless they happen to be on the road. Then they might take an extra 10 or 30 minutes... OK, so I exaggerate a bit.

Good luck to all in your decisions, regardless the direction you take. I know what I will do, and I am happy with it - stress is not a part of it. Nobody needs stress these day.

Enjoy, everyone!

.

[Wayne Watling]

Quite frankly I wouldn't want to subscribe to a magazine if all it printed is 'what the editors believed I wanted to hear'. I subscribe for access to new approaches and ideas, I may have no concept of them prior to reading an article hence the importance of allowing the editors and writers total creative reign over the approach and material for the magazine. In my case I know they wont get it right every time because undoubtedly I will have come across some of the concepts during my time at woodworking, no problem, if I'm not learning anything new its time to drop the subscription. I dont think there is any chance of that happening in the near future.

[Greg Portland]

I subscribe to FWW and the things that keep me coming back are the master class section, the gallery and the back cover article.

[Matt Stiegler]

For what it's worth, this thread inspired me to go back and look at the freebie issue of PW I picked up at WIA but only glanced at until now (Nov. 2009 #179). I was wondering if I'd be disappointed with the quality, especially in comparison with Schwarz's books on workbenches and hand planes (which are probably the two most useful WW books I've read).

Disappointed? No way. I loved it. The cover story was Megan Fitzpatrick's LVL workbench, an article I fully expect to have close at hand when I'm rebuilding the base to my bench. There was an article on mini-lathes that was great for me. Useful tips, informative reviews, and I even enjoyed Schwarz's 'how woodworking changed my perspective about what to do with a broken watch' think-piece. I was surprised how much I got out of the issue.

I haven't spent very much time looking at WW magazines. SMC, a couple other WW sites, books, DVDs, and classes have been way more than enough for me. But I just started getting a gift subscription to FWW, and have liked but not loved the first couple issues. Now I'm definitely going to get a subscription to PWW or WW.

I hope I don't come off like a Schwarz groupie (honest I'm not), nor do I mean to suggest that I think OP was wrong to be disappointed with the current WW issue or others are wrong to get bored with the content after years of subscribing. Just pointing out a tangential way this thread proved helpful.

[Jacob Griffith]

First, I will just give a nod of agreement to Steven DeMars and David Keller; well said IMHO.

Second, I would subscribe alone for the neat and sometimes obscure quotes that dot the pages of Woodworking Magazine. On top of that, there is an occasional reference to an old or new book makes the magazine worthwhile to me.

As somewhat of a bibliophile, I was hoping that one day they (the editors) would put their library online with something like LibraryThing for the rest of us to browse. Who knows, maybe someday!

[Mark Elmer]

Hi all,

If you think about it, it's amazing there are any ink and paper magazines to be purchased in this day and age. Since the Pony Express rider was overtaken by the electron we have been hurdling toward where we are right now with instantaneous access to a wealth of knowledge that most of us never imagined We'd have access too.

As a kid I remember buying magazines like Popular Mechanics and Mechanix Illustrated for a small fraction of what they sell for now and with denser article to advertisement ratios too.

Nonetheless I still like to have the "real thing" Books, DVD, CD, Magazine and whatever. It's probably all of the ink that seeped into my physical body during my formative years folding and delivering newspapers, reading comic books and spending evenings and weekends at the library.

I am glad the ink and paper copies still exist and while I to don't find every magazine issue that I subscribe to an outstanding value I hang onto each one and appreciate the ones that do surpass my expectations all the more.

[David Schmaus]

What is interesting is how a business can operate without listening to its customer especially when the business model in general is rapidly declining in a down economy. Sounds like a recipe...

[Randy Klein]

Just my 2 cents, but I enjoyed the issue. Keep up the good work.

[Alan Schaffter]

Just a quick follow-up to the comment(s) about getting responses from the editors at WW mags.

A few days ago I sent PWW a comment about the little A&C bookshelf article that they had on their website. It was intended as an easy-build project, which I didn't have a problem with. What bothered me was the use of a piece of flat-sawn oak for the bottom rail- the grain pattern stood out like a sore thumb next to the quarter and rift-sawn stuff they appeared to have used on other parts of the project.

I got a quick reply from Glen Huey, PW senior editor, who admitted to not noticing until he went back and looked at the photo. He agreed completely and provided some additional thoughts. Nice!

[Bill Wilcox]

Well being a non subscriber but an avid reader online of C.S.'s blogs, I do take my hat off to Chris for coming on to this site and giving his thoughts.
I wonder how many other magazine editors have done this.
Thanks Chris for doing so. Just fot doing this has raised my interest to subscribing to this magazine.
I tip my jointer plane to you sir.

[Mike Black Milford, MI]

Well Matt, and anyone else intrested,
Woodworking Magazine and Popular Woodworking Magazine are being combined into one magazine called: Popular Woodworking Magazine.
Chris Swhwartz's blog just recently announced this action.
Perhaps this decision to eliminate Woodworking Magazine had some influence on the January weak issue????

BTW, the blog went on to spin the story that everything is fine and good with the loss of Woodworking Magazine because it really isn't gone, it is now part of the new Popular Woodworking Magazine. Twice he threw out the spin that Popular Woodworking Magazine will be better because it will actually be two magizines rolled into one and will be larger (can't remember if he meant a larger height and/or larger width or if he meant it will have more pages) and will use thicker paper. (The environmentalist in me isn't really happy with the use of thicker paper but for those of you that love thicker paper - rock on!)

Good bye Woodworking Magazine! I guess the offering of a magazine without advertising just didn't work out for them.

[Matt Meiser]

Sheesh...you complain to the editor about one issue and he just takes his toys and goes home. :D

Should be interesting to see the new magazine. Honestly I didn't "get" the reason for two magazines by the same group of people. PWW is my current favorite and Chris and crew have done a great job of turning it around from several years ago, which I also told him in the email that led to 1/2 this thread. With the exception of the current issue, I think Woodworking was also very good--enough that I own every issue, including a number of back-issues I ordered last year. It looks like I'll own a complete set since my subscription continues 1 more issue.

[Randy Klein]

Well Matt, and anyone else intrested,
Woodworking Magazine and Popular Woodworking Magazine are being combined into one magazine called: Popular Woodworking Magazine.
Chris Swhwartz's blog just recently announced this action.
Perhaps this decision to eliminate Woodworking Magazine had some influence on the January weak issue????

BTW, the blog went on to spin the story that everything is fine and good with the loss of Woodworking Magazine because it really isn't gone, it is now part of the new Popular Woodworking Magazine. Twice he threw out the spin that Popular Woodworking Magazine will be better because it will actually be two magizines rolled into one and will be larger (can't remember if he meant a larger height and/or larger width or if he meant it will have more pages) and will use thicker paper. (The environmentalist in me isn't really happy with the use of thicker paper but for those of you that love thicker paper - rock on!)

Good bye Woodworking Magazine! I guess the offering of a magazine without advertising just didn't work out for them.

Well, I guess that's one way to look at it.:rolleyes:

[Josh Reet]

Get ready for more of the same as far as shrinking and disappearing magazines. As has been mentioned in this thread, it's hard times in the publishing industry. the internet started the bleeding and the slow economy sped it up considerably.

I doubt that magazines will be "gone" for a number of years now. But things aren't going to get any better. The slide has started.

[Brian Peters]

Sorry to hear that magazine is suffering quality. I dropped FWW because I felt the quality of the articles wasn't there anymore and if you look at the magazines years ago I have on my shelf there are far less ads and better written material. I will say they have a tough job to write about woodworking as there is just only so much you can write about but it is their job and their business to keep finding more. Not to mention that it seems like there was less content and more ads working their way in there. Not as bad as say architectural digest but it was pushing it. :rolleyes:

[Mike Black Milford, MI]

Woodworking magazine is now gone! Matt, look at the influence you have!
Woodworking magazine is now merged with Popular Woodworking Magazine. The combination of the two magazines is to be called (tada!): Popular Woodworking Magazine. The editor announced changes and improvements.
I was getting ready to take Chris's advice and cancel Woodworking Magazine but I really liked Popular Woodworking Magazine so I am not sure how I will react to this merging of Woodworker Magazine into PWM. I hope the new PWM is as good or better than what I appreciated.