Just curious...

[Donnie Raines]

This is not intended at all to become political...so please refrain from doing so. I am asking this question simply out of curiosity.

When I flip through my local classified paper, I see job after job after job listed there. Most are very skilled jobs too.....sure there are some lower wage jobs as well. Anything from the medical field, factory, buisness/sales to truck drivers. Many are promoting full benefits. Many also state "we will train"....which means they need workers. Many of my clients cant find good reliable employees.

Do you see this in your local paper?

[Gary Max]

I would even go as far as saying--- there ain't any day of the week that a person that wants a job could not find one.

[Carl Eyman]

There are many folks on this forum that have reported having received pink slips. Many of them seem to take a while to find another job. I doubt they'd agree that anyone wanting work can find it, at least, right away. Hope your request, Donnie, to keep this non-political didn't mean everyone had to agree with your premise.

[Donnie Raines]

There are many folks on this forum that have reported having received pink slips. Many of them seem to take a while to find another job. I doubt they'd agree that anyone wanting work can find it, at least, right away. Hope your request, Donnie, to keep this non-political didn't mean everyone had to agree with your premise.
Carl,

There really is nothing to agree or disagree with in my statement...you either see a large number of jobs listed in your paper or you do not.

Please permit me to explain my inquirey: I have had 2 indivduals walk through my front door, in the last few weeks, asking if were hireing. When I replied "not right now" they ask me to fill out some sheet saying that they were here looking for work...and that we were not hireing at this time. When I ask what the sheet was for they said welfair.....

Now neither of these two people had a permit in the state of Ohio that would make them a viable employee here(insurance). But the mortgage comapny next door was hireing and these people did not bother to visit them....I no this becuase I ask them(the 2 people plus the mortgage company). There was no experience needed there either....

[Kurt Aebi]

Carl,

I think what Gary was trying to say is that there are plenty of jobs out there to be had. But, I have noticed the problem to be that most available jobs are service jobs or entry level (most of the people I have heard getting their pink slips are way beyond entry level and would demand a higher wage than the job available would allow) or medical field where there is specific criteria to obtain that position. Companies are having a hard time filling the entry level positions with good help due to the lack of young people wanting to work for a living, or the young person's ability to do simple arithmetic - a sad atate of affairs no matter how you look at it.

If you have a Nursing Degree - you can get a job anywhere and I mean Anywhere.

If you are looking for a manufacturing job - unfortunately there are none to be had! If you want to be a truck driver and never be home - again there is plenty of opportunity.

Like Donnie says the want ads have plenty of listings - just not too many "skilled trades" type work there.

Not making any political judgements or slamming any professions (teachers in particular), just stating my observations of what I percieve of the world and society today.

[Michael Stafford]

In my job I spend a lot of time calling on many different firms. Overwhelmingly their complaint is, " Nobody wants to work, they just want to draw a check". Just this morning I was with a business owner who was saying he has not been at full staffing in over a year yet his business is located in the highest unemployment county in this state. Go figure... I think there are too many alternatives that make work just a bit unattractive. Perhaps hunger, real hunger would change that dynamic.

[Carl Eyman]

When I was an employer I used to get riled up over an employee quitting to take a highter paid job, getting laid off, and our unemployement account being charged for his unemp. comp. When I'd complain to the emp. office that he could come back to his old job, they'd tell me he didn't have to because the pay wasn't equal to the job he'd been laid off from. Grr. But guys. listen a bit, It is easy to criticize others for being lazy, free loaders, or whatever when one is secure in his own situation. I think trying on the other guy's shoes is a good, kindly thing to do. Will you permit me to tell a story from the distant past?

My grandfather was welfare director for a eastern city from which the cotton mills were heading south - to the Carolinas, principally. He held this position from about 1890 to 1939. My memeories of his experiences were in the 1930's. Years of 25+% unemployement. No unemployement compensation. yet my grandmother - a good, godfearing, Christian woman if one ever existed, considered my grandfather's "clients" slackers. She subscribed to the theory that everyone could get a job if they tried. Friends, until we've walked walked in the other guy's shoes we maybe should temper our opinions.

Thanks for the chance to rant.

[Dan Mages]

There are plenty of jobs available in IL. All a person needs to get a job is tenacity, the right skills, the right connections, and a good frame of mind. Right now we have 5.4% unemployement. If I remember correctly, that is below the historical average for the post war (1945-present) economy.

Dan

[Ed Falis]

Donnie,

Don't you see you were making a political statement despite denying that it was political?

That aside, I'd say there are some jobs in my area newspaper, and a lot of people competing for them at the same time.

When I got "laid off" of cut loose or right-sized or whatever it was called in 2000, it would barely have occurrred to me to look at newspaper ads. I had advanced degrees, 20+ years of experience in my field, which is specialized, etc. Not to mention alimony and a few other debts I inherited from my former marriage.

I could have taken a newspaper ad job, and declared bankruptcy, screwing my ex and my daughter and son in the process. Or I could have taken a job in my specialty, which usually takes longer to find. I was lucky because I did find one.

It's complicated. There has been a trend of offshoring more and more jobs cutting higher and higher into the skillsets. The replacement jobs that are getting created tend to be lower-end. (For example, Bank of America as part of their takeover of Fleet in New England, promised they'd maintain the same number of jobs. They then proceeded to "lay off" several hundred full-time employees and replace the positions with part-time ones largely without benefits).

So, I guess all I can say is, it ain't simple. And I think your premise was indeed political.

- Ed

[Mike Tempel]

Donnie,
I live in the Houston area and yes the employment section of the classifieds is usually quite full. From professionals, accountants, engineers, medical specialists of all kinds, chemical plant jobs of all sorts, apartment complex jobs, all the way through to security jobs, truck drivers, and even landscapers. Yes I do see quite a few open positions being advertised.

[Jim Becker]

I don't think that the want-ads are a good measure of the conditions that many folks face when it comes to finding jobs to replace those they have lost. I know a number of my former peers that were laid off in the past two years who are yet to find employment or find employment that even closely emulates the pay and benefits that they worked hard for while with my company. (We reduced from 34,000 folks to about 15,000 since 2000) These are people with families that lost, in many cases, six figure incomes. They often worked 50-60+ hours per week and some were often traveling and away from their family. These are not folks who don't know how to work hard. Some have taken jobs that pay less than half and have had to take second (and third) jobs to pay mortgages, tuition, etc. Some have been able to take similar jobs after a very long search with competitors or other industry entities, but the tech sector was hit hard and is only now starting to field new openings. Two have "started businesses or consultancys", but they are working unbelievably hard to make a living right now...with no benefits.

Manufacturing also has been hit hard...there was a piece on NPR a few minutes ago about Maytag shutting down a plant. To their credit, they gave folks two years notice...something unprecidented in most cases...so that they could make plans for seeking a new job and/or retraining. That's unusual, however...many get little or no notice. We truely have moved to a service-society and many of the skilled jobs will never come back, just as there has been a demise of the farming way of life.

Unfortuately, there are also some folks out there who do take advantage of the system. There always have been some and always will be. I would like to think that we could change that, but it's a human condition with many causes and no universal solutions.

The thing that spikes my curiosity about unemployment, however, is why we as a soceity don't count the folks who have given up seeking work as "unemployed", especially those who really do want to work, but have not been able to land a job that they are either qualified for or that they can actually support their family with. They just "disappear"... Statistics like that really bug me as they don't reflect reality.

As to the original question, the local papers (I had to look online since we don't buy them!) have some reasonable quanitity of openings listed. A healthy percentage are for lower level positions and straight-commission sales in often dubious businesses. Health care is a relatively hot area due to shortages in trained folks, especially for skilled nursing. The Sunday editions also usually have a section for tech jobs, especially programmers; some portion of which are in languages that most young folks never heard of or have training on. But for folks looking for work in the $50-150K range...the newspapers are of little help. You need to do an exceptional job networking to find "real" openings as most of them are listed directly with employers, not in the papers. Competition is stiff. And those jobs give first dibs to internal folks, especially those at risk for layoff in current positions...at least in my industry.

[Tyler Howell]

I just spent 1.5 hours waiting on the phone to clear up erroneous long distance charges, Finally a young lady from India skillfully but unsuccessfully tried to get me to pay fees for services not received. (AT&T??)
On another day I spoke to a person from India for IT support on my computer. I drive a American made vehicle but the company is HQ ed off shore. I was quick to line up for imported tools, and was proud to own a PM till I found out today that the 66 is one of few company products made in the USA.
I have never been unemployed or under employed. There was a time I was working 4 jobs to keep the x quiet but mostly to see to it my young ladies had what they needed and what I wanted for them.
Being an employer I would agree that many people just want a pay check. It challenges me daily to get people to earn their keep.
A wake up message to us all as employees, employers and parents that American jobs have gone overseas, and are going away.:(

[Greg Heppeard]

Donnie,

I've had guys come in asking to fill out an application and for me to sign their sheet...it's a requirement to get the sheet signed for unemployment payments. Some people don't want to work...they just want to use the system that was designed for people who actually can't find work that they are trained or capable of doing.

Just my dime's worth

[Donnie Raines]

Donnie,

Don't you see you were making a political statement despite denying that it was political?

That aside, I'd say there are some jobs in my area newspaper, and a lot of people competing for them at the same time.

When I got "laid off" of cut loose or right-sized or whatever it was called in 2000, it would barely have occurrred to me to look at newspaper ads. I had advanced degrees, 20+ years of experience in my field, which is specialized, etc. Not to mention alimony and a few other debts I inherited from my former marriage.

I could have taken a newspaper ad job, and declared bankruptcy, screwing my ex and my daughter and son in the process. Or I could have taken a job in my specialty, which usually takes longer to find. I was lucky because I did find one.

It's complicated. There has been a trend of offshoring more and more jobs cutting higher and higher into the skillsets. The replacement jobs that are getting created tend to be lower-end. (For example, Bank of America as part of their takeover of Fleet in New England, promised they'd maintain the same number of jobs. They then proceeded to "lay off" several hundred full-time employees and replace the positions with part-time ones largely without benefits).

So, I guess all I can say is, it ain't simple. And I think your premise was indeed political.

- Ed
Ed,

There was nothing at all political with my statement. I simply stated what I have seen in my local paper...and have experienced to some extent personally...on the question I asked. I took no postion on the matter. It does seem as though some of the jobs in my local paper are of better quailty then what some others have found in their's.

I am sorry that you had to go through what you went through. But there was nothing political with my statement. It is clear where you stand, however.

[Donnie Raines]

I don't think that the want-ads are a good measure of the conditions that many folks face when it comes to finding jobs to replace those they have lost. I know a number of my former peers that were laid off in the past two years who are yet to find employment or find employment that even closely emulates the pay and benefits that they worked hard for while with my company. (We reduced from 34,000 folks to about 15,000 since 2000) These are people with families that lost, in many cases, six figure incomes. They often worked 50-60+ hours per week and some were often traveling and away from their family. These are not folks who don't know how to work hard. Some have taken jobs that pay less than half and have had to take second (and third) jobs to pay mortgages, tuition, etc. Some have been able to take similar jobs after a very long search with competitors or other industry entities, but the tech sector was hit hard and is only now starting to field new openings. Two have "started businesses or consultancys", but they are working unbelievably hard to make a living right now...with no benefits.

Manufacturing also has been hit hard...there was a piece on NPR a few minutes ago about Maytag shutting down a plant. To their credit, they gave folks two years notice...something unprecidented in most cases...so that they could make plans for seeking a new job and/or retraining. That's unusual, however...many get little or no notice. We truely have moved to a service-society and many of the skilled jobs will never come back, just as there has been a demise of the farming way of life.

Unfortuately, there are also some folks out there who do take advantage of the system. There always have been some and always will be. I would like to think that we could change that, but it's a human condition with many causes and no universal solutions.

The thing that spikes my curiosity about unemployment, however, is why we as a soceity don't count the folks who have given up seeking work as "unemployed", especially those who really do want to work, but have not been able to land a job that they are either qualified for or that they can actually support their family with. They just "disappear"... Statistics like that really bug me as they don't reflect reality.

As to the original question, the local papers (I had to look online since we don't buy them!) have some reasonable quanitity of openings listed. A healthy percentage are for lower level positions and straight-commission sales in often dubious businesses. Health care is a relatively hot area due to shortages in trained folks, especially for skilled nursing. The Sunday editions also usually have a section for tech jobs, especially programmers; some portion of which are in languages that most young folks never heard of or have training on. But for folks looking for work in the $50-150K range...the newspapers are of little help. You need to do an exceptional job networking to find "real" openings as most of them are listed directly with employers, not in the papers. Competition is stiff. And those jobs give first dibs to internal folks, especially those at risk for layoff in current positions...at least in my industry.
It is hard to define what a "good" job is. Most folks do not make 80K plus a year...it is my undertsanding(haveing read a lot) that the average salary is 50K these days...not incudeing the CEO and the like in this number. Many markets have been saturated with applicants...technologies being one of them. I understand that the want adds are not the most sophisticated way of judging this topic. But, I am curious as to how the "job loss" numbers are determined when your see jobs every where...maybe not "your" job...but jobs. I guess this is a hard topic to have considering the times we now live in.

[Donnie Raines]

I just spent 1.5 hours waiting on the phone to clear up erroneous long distance charges, Finally a young lady from India skillfully but unsuccessfully tried to get me to pay fees for services not received. (AT&T??)
On another day I spoke to a person from India for IT support on my computer. I drive a American made vehicle but the company is HQ ed off shore. I was quick to line up for imported tools, and was proud to own a PM till I found out today that the 66 is one of few company products made in the USA.
I have never been unemployed or under employed. There was a time I was working 4 jobs to keep the x quiet but mostly to see to it my young ladies had what they needed and what I wanted for them.
Being an employer I would agree that many people just want a pay check. It challenges me daily to get people to earn their keep.
A wake up message to us all as employees, employers and parents that American jobs have gone overseas, and are going away.:(
Hey T,

I am with you to some extent...I have been really lucky to this date. I would point out, though, that 1-2% of all jobs loss were from outsourcing. Dramatic if it happens to you...but not as dramatic in the over all picture.

[Ed Falis]

I am sorry that you had to go through what you went through. But there was nothing political with my statement. It is clear where you stand, however.

Well, let's be level and straight with each other here. I perceived you as "saying without saying": "There're plenty of jobs out there. What are people whining about?" That's the basis of a political position from what I can see of the national debate.

I could be misreading what you were writing between the lines, though. I could even be misreading that you were writing between the lines. But I kind of doubt it, old guy that I am.

In any case, no harm intended either way. I respect your right to have an opinion and appreciate you asking others' opinions.

I have to say that I think Jim expressed my position better than I did - and without being as
crusty as I get about these things.

My personal situation was not so bad at all - I was hoping it illustrated that this issue just isn't all that simple.

Cheers,

- Ed

[Donnie Raines]

[QUOTE=Ed Falis]Well, let's be level and straight with each other here. I perceived you as "saying without saying": "There're plenty of jobs out there. What are people whining about?" That's the basis of a political position from what I can see of the national debate.

I could be misreading what you were writing between the lines, though. I could even be misreading that you were writing between the lines. But I kind of doubt it, old guy that I am.

In any case, no harm intended either way. I respect your right to have an opinion and appreciate you asking others' opinions.

I have to say that I think Jim expressed my position better than I did - and without being as
crusty as I get about these things.

My personal situation was not so bad at all - I was hoping it illustrated that this issue just isn't all that simple.

Cheers,


Ed,

I was hopeing that you would respond in that manner. As I said...I really did not intend to sound as though I was being political....for I did not intend to. I guess its hard these days to not come off in the wrong light. I respect your postion too....thats why this country of ours is so great!

[Jim Becker]

But, I am curious as to how the "job loss" numbers are determined when your see jobs every where...maybe not "your" job...but jobs.
A very good point. But like counting "total unemployed", counting "jobs available" is a little cloudy. There are a variety of reasons why a particular listing may or may not be filled...too many to list here. I've even heard of one firm that posted openings that they never intended to fill, but needed to impress someone to gain funding or something or the other. (this was a couple years ago and I don't recall the details, etc) That, obviously, would represent a very unusual situation, however, and I believe that most listings really look to be filled...if the "right" person is available. Employers are pretty selective right now because they can be! The number of applicants for even one position can often be huge.


I guess this is a hard topic to have considering the times we now live in.The difficulty stems from "timing"...this is a very emotional item right now with many folks due to the coming election and how it's a topic in play. Both R and D (and all the various other persuasions...) are spinning this issue/topic with the others. None of us are immune to that and we shouldn't be. And it should be something we consider as we all make our individual decisions. But going back to Ed's comment...it's really, really hard to discuss this without going political and we don't want to go there and get the thread pulled.

Now...how many of those job listings were for woodworkers??? :D That's a much better topic!!

[Ed Falis]

..I respect your postion too....thats why this country of ours is so great!

I'm with you 100% on that, Donnie.

- Ed

[Teresa Jones]

FYI - Definition of the Unemployment Rate

One of the best known and most politically powerful economic indicators, the rate is calculated from a monthly survey among a sample of about 60,000 households. The rate is adjusted for seasonal variations, but unlike most economic statistics it is never revised.

I did not know that is how it is calculated. Thought I would share.

Have a great weekend.

TJ

[Gary Max]

I think it is based on the # of new unemployment claims per week.

[Ken Leshner]

I was the manager of a systems engineering group for a large investment banking firm in New York City when I retired a few years ago. The firm was not outsourcing any programming jobs then, but we saw lots of job applicants from foreign countries, especially India. Since my retirement, the firm began outsourcing jobs and laying off American programmers - first the consultants and then the employees.

Now, it's tough finding a good programming job in New York. Sure, there are still entry level jobs. And there are higher level jobs with smaller companies that pay much less.

The business section of the New York Times used to be filled with ads from major companies with openings at every level of Information Technology. Not any more.

Yes outsourcing may be only 1-2% of all jobs, but you have to look at the types of jobs being outsourced. Not only are service type jobs like telephone operators and customer support being outsourced, but manufacturing, engineering and high tech jobs.

How do you tell college kids studying engineering or computer science or lots of other technical fields that their job prospects when they graduate are drying up?

And, how can our country compete in the world economy when manufacturing companies are moving out, and when our traditiional dominance in high technology is being eroded?

Just my 2 cents.

[Bob Randolph]

This thread is a good example of whether you see the glass half full or half empty. Of course, there are jobs out there for those who will only open their eyes. On the other hand, you don't have to read the want ads if you want to be controlled by those who look at everything pessimistically.

My wife and I own a management recruiting and search firm (we are headhunters). We specialize in wood manufacturing. We have been in business for seven years and this is one of the best years we have experienced. While some people complain there are no jobs available, we are placing qualified supervisors to plant managers and operations managers in jobs with some salaries that exceed $100K. The people we place would call these "good" jobs. But then, they are looking at the glass as being half full, not half empty.

Bob