Veritas® Low-Angle Spokeshave questions

[Kelly Jons]

Hi Guys -

Anyone have and/or use one of these all-metal spokeshaves from Lee Valley? I would like to buy one, but wonder just how well they've worked for you. On his blog, Mike Dunbar basically says they are junk and chatter like crazy. (He sometimes has some pretty strong opinions about tools - he's earned the right to do that though... to me, he's a woodworking god.) I don't want to make an expensive tool purchase mistake if there are better choices out there, like maybe Dave's Shaves... (Dunbar say THOSE shaves are great.)

Thanks, folks!

Kelly

[Matt Stiegler]

Here (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=105300) and here (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=85365) are a couple threads that might help you answer your question. You might find others too.

[Robert Rozaieski]

I owned and used the LV low angle shave several years ago and really didn't like it. I do have to agree with Mike that it is finicky. For just a few dollars more you can get a nice new wooden shave, or you can buy a vintage wooden shave for less. The low angle wooden shaves are my favorite. I've never really liked the high angle shaves much (ones like the Stanley #51, the LN Boggs or the LV offerings).

I made my own wooden spokeshave. It's based on the designs used by Dave's Shaves, Woodjoy and Kansas City Windsor Toolworks. I'd recommend one of those makers for a low angle shave, or you can make your own pretty easy. Popular Woodworking had an article a year or two ago by John Wilson on how to make one yourself from a piece of 7/8" x 1-1/2" hardwood and a piece of 1/8" thick tool steel. It was a very easy and fun project. LV also sells a kit for a low angle wooden shave that looks pretty nice and would save you from having to make the iron.

[Kelly Jons]

Thanks, Matt. For some reason, I couldn't get the search function to run here at work! :)

Kelly

[David Turner]

I received the Veritas Low-Angle Spokshave as a Christmas present 2 years ago this month. It has been positioned on a peg hanging inside my tool cabinet door for about 1 1/2 of those years; I can not keep the blade from falling out. The instructions say to roughen up that portion of the blade that is held in place by the two blade stems but that hasn't helped. I have given up on it!

If you would like to try mine out, send me a private message with your address and I will send it for your trial.

David Turner
Plymouth, Mi.

[Matt Stiegler]

Thanks, Matt. For some reason, I couldn't get the search function to run here at work! :)


No problem, thanks for mentioning that blog, I hadn't looked at it before.




Anyone have and/or use one of these all-metal spokeshaves from Lee Valley? I would like to buy one, but wonder just how well they've worked for you. On his blog, Mike Dunbar basically says they are junk amd chatter like crazy.


If I read Dunbar's blog (http://www.thewindsorinstitute.com/blog/) correctly, he's not bad-mouthing low-angle spokeshaves, which are the LV spokeshaves I've seen discussed here most (and the ones you're asking about). He says:
As an aside, metal shaves are poor tools in comparison to their wooden counterparts. Look at the cutter in a metal shave. It is set at 45 degrees rather than at only several degrees. This high cutting angle means it is really an odd ball plane, rather than a true shave. Because of this high angle cut, metal shaves will not pare well on end grain. They chatter and make dust.

[mike holden]

Kelly,
I feel like a salmon here, going against the flow, but I have had a veritas spokeshave, the black one, for many years. Made many a cabriolet leg with it, and love it.
First spokeshave I ever owned, I now also have the LN spokeshave and reach for the veritas first. The LN *is* prettier, but both work well.

See if you can find a friend with one and try it first would be the best option, but not always possible. Re: fussiness - I have never been able to get a wooden shave to work reliably - those I find fussy.

Mike

134706

[lowell holmes]

I have the same problem with mine. The standard Veritas Spokeshave is my goto shave. I have a wooden low angle shave I use when I need the low angle.

[Ed Griner]

I've had the LVLA shave for awhile, along with about eight others(stanley,cinncinatti,etc)< they all have a unique applications.I've never owned a wooden shave.The LVLA shave is just fine if used as designed,the same as the others.If I'm removing a lot of wood,say on a curved leg,first bandsaw to shape,use a old stanley shave to knock off corners,nicholson#49-50 rasp finish rounding,and last a card scraper .Spokeshave are great tools when used as designed,not really a "hoggin" tool. Always been afraid the dogs would eat a wooden shave.

Ed

[Dave Anderson NH]

I have had the black low angle LV shave for many years and it has never failed to perform up to expectations. It does have a small learning curve when you first set it up, but what hand tool doesn't. I know Mike Dunbar well and have for many years. He makes no bones about being opinionated and about his disdain for any non-wooden shave. I will tell a little tale on him about shaves. I went to my first Windsor chair class about 10-12 years ago at Mikes and brought a low angle wooden shave of the "Teachshave"/Dave's Shave design and a Record 151 which I had spent some time modifying. After hearing Mike's diatrabe on metal shaves I made sure that each time he came around to check on our work I was using the bright blue Record. Finally, he started in on me and grabbed my shave and put it to a chair spindle. A few seconds and strokes later he shut up and handed it back to me without a word.

The bottom line is we all have our prejudices about tools and Mike came to his honestly after endless aggravation and frustration having to make students poorly tuned and unsharpened junk tools useable. Many of his classes had over half of the students with tools that were right out of the box, or the flea market, unsharpened, and too light to even make a good paperweight. That's a huge time waster when you have to tune half a dozen or more tools before the class can proceed on to business.

[Kelly Jons]

Here's the quote from Dunbar's January 2008 Windsor Chronicles blog that got me wondering about the Veritas Low Angle Spokeshave (note that Dunbar does not specifically call out this shave by name, but it's pretty clear, I think, that that IS the shave he's talking about):

"Here is another example. From time to time, we see in class a metal bodied, low angled spoke shave, that one catalog company has developed. We recommend against it, as its metal body is far more prone to chatter than a wooden body. As a result, this tool is very hard to use satisfactorily. Not having tangs, its cutter is a pain to lap flat when sharpening."

I am intrigued by the fact that some of you can't keep the blade in the shave. Have you contacted Lee Valley about this? Was this possibly just a problem with the first runs of the shave, and they now work better?

Kelly

[David Gendron]

I have one, use it quite a bit but it is not a great spoke shave in my opinion. The blade issue is one thing but also it is not the easyest to set and tuned up... IMO you would be better with one from Wood Joy, or the other models from LV, LN or Stanley!

[Derek Cohen]

I consider the Veritas LA spokeshave to be excellent. It is important that you put in in its correct context. This has a low cutting angle and is better suited to end grain or straight grained softwood, where it will produce a better finish than just about anything else around. Think of it as a LA block plane.

At the other end of the spectrum, if I were working hard, interlocked woods, then I would go for a spokeshave such as the HNT Gordon. This has a high cutting angle (55 degrees) and can handle anything thrown at it. However, it will not produce as smooth a finish on end grain as will the Veritas. Think of it as a HA (half pitch) smoother.

In the middle range are spokeshaves with common pitches, such as those based on the Stanleys ... perhaps even the LN (which has a 40 degree bed). Some, such as the Veritas and LN versions are capable of a very fine performance on everything but the higher level of interlocked grain. Think of these as a quality common pitch smoother.

None of these are your hogging types (i.e. not a jack plane). Consider here a Stanley #51 (which has a wide mouth).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Brian Sullivan]

I can't get mine to work well. Maybe it's me. But the Veritas wooden handled spoke shave are a pleasure to use.

[John Keeton]

Derek, great response, and good info generally for those looking at various choices! Thanks.

[Jim Lebans]

I haven't used their low angle metal shave, but heard similarly from a windsor chair maker that the blade is fussy to adjust.

I have, however, built a couple of the low angle wooden shave kits from LV. They're a fun project, not too challenging, and work great. I like the adjuster mechanism in particular.

JL

[Jules Martin]

I made a spokeshave from the LV kit a few years ago and it is still my only spokeshave. The adjustment works well, the kit isn't hard to make, and in general I'm very happy with it. It's deceptively light, very comfortable and versatile, cuts beautifully. It's a little too long front to back to work any kind of concavity. All in all it's a very satisfying way to add an excellent tool to your kit.