Lie-Nielsen showroom pricing?

[Jim Watts]

Has anyone ever bought anything directly from the LN showroom in Warren, Maine? I'm curious whether they offered any discount for buying "factory direct".
================================================== ===================================
Please disregard - I think I've found my answer searching the forums...

[Larry Rose]

I have ordered from the showroom and as far as I can tell the prices are no direrent than Woodcraft

[Mike Brady]

Lie-Nielsen prices are required to be list prices at all dealers. That is one reason Woodcraft won't be selling L-N in the future.

[Joe Rogers]

Does anyone think these planes:
http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2021170/WoodRiver-Planes.aspx
figure into a marketing decision by L-N?
Or maybe the decision is being made by Woodcraft.
Joe

[Jerome Hanby]

That sure seems like a bonehead move. While I may not premeditate a LN purchase from Woodcraft, there is no telling what will happen "spur of the moment".



Lie-Nielsen prices are required to be list prices at all dealers. That is one reason Woodcraft won't be selling L-N in the future.

[Kieran Kammerer]

When you visit the showroom and purchase a plane, chisels, etc., they give you 10% off. Good motivation for me to make the 40 minute drive. Kieran

[Jim Mackell]

I went to their open house last week and was disappointed. There was no mention anywhere of any discount. Nothing special being offered or even displayed. Some demonstrations by various local craftsmen and a tour of the facility was the whole program. We had more fun at "The Shelter Institute" just north of Bath, ME on the return trip. Hand tools of all types galore. Must have been 20 or 30 different Japanese cutoff saws alone. Quite frankly, Lie Neilson is quite overrated IMHO.

[Mike Brady]

Kieren, at the risk of sounding contrary, can I ask when you last received a discount at the factory? I believe the practice of discounting at shows and at the factory was discontinued about a year and a half ago. You may find a free shipping offer occasionally at one of their demos.

[Don Dorn]

Quite frankly, Lie Neilson is quite overrated IMHO.

I don't have any of the Woodriver planes to compare them to, but I do have some old Stanleys and while they work perfectly well, my Lie Nielsen #3 is the best bench plane I own, followed very closely by a LV low angle smoother.

[Matt Stiegler]

Quite frankly, Lie Neilson is quite overrated IMHO.

Jim N Maine in Maine: I believe that reflects a minority view here.

[Kieran Kammerer]

Several times in the last 4 months.

[Jack Camillo]

I went to their open house last week and was disappointed. There was no mention anywhere of any discount. Nothing special being offered or even displayed. Some demonstrations by various local craftsmen and a tour of the facility was the whole program. We had more fun at "The Shelter Institute" just north of Bath, ME on the return trip. Hand tools of all types galore. Must have been 20 or 30 different Japanese cutoff saws alone. Quite frankly, Lie Neilson is quite overrated IMHO.

Disappointed because there was no discount? I can understand that. But I came to terms with the LN prices after being similarly disappointed. And after buying some and actually using them. The LN tools are TOP quality, made in America, lifetime guarantee, lifetime customer support tools. The demos are just an understandable effort (IMO) to drum up sales in a tough economy. While a few "accessories" or odd-ball tools may seem overpriced (I agree), I would bet that anyone claiming the common tools are overrated either doesn't own any and/or, more importantly, hasn't used them much or at all. Oh, and LV's are pretty outstanding as well. and not because they offer a limited-time discount upon introducing them.

[Mike Brady]

Then you must be receiving the Maine resident's discount! That sounds like a business opportunity. A lot of businesses would love to be able to make 10% margins. Next time you go, take a truck.

[Dick Aubochon]

Then you must be receiving the Maine resident's discount! That sounds like a business opportunity. A lot of businesses would love to be able to make 10% margins. Next time you go, take a truck.

Although I have relocated my shop to Mass. I previously lived 12 miles from LN. I always received a 10% discount at the factory. I believe this is still true.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Quite frankly, Lie Neilson is quite overrated IMHO.

Sticks and coal for you from Santa this year :D

[Ken Shepard]

I was at the L-N showroom in October and purchased several items. No discount was offered, but I didn't ask for one either.

I find that many who disparage L-N tools have not used them. The quality of the tools and the support given users by the company justifies, in my mind, the premium price. Though I have shelves full of old tools, the ones most often used when I really want to build something instead of just mess around are the L-N tools.

What surprises me is the people that buy L-N tools and don't use them. I can't count the times I have seen L-N planes for sale NIB or several years old and only lightly used.

[Dick Aubochon]

I was at the L-N showroom in October and purchased several items. No discount was offered, but I didn't ask for one either.

I find that many who disparage L-N tools have not used them. The quality of the tools and the support given users by the company justifies, in my mind, the premium price. Though I have shelves full of old tools, the ones most often used when I really want to build something instead of just mess around are the L-N tools.

What surprises me is the people that buy L-N tools and don't use them. I can't count the times I have seen L-N planes for sale NIB or several years old and only lightly used.

I would wager that if you wrote, or called, Tom he would issue you the 10% discount; you should not have to ask for it.

[Scott Stafford]

I have it from a reliable source that Woodcraft is currently developing a Lie-Nielsen competitor line of premium planes with the expert input from an industry authority. This will be separate from the current Woodriver line of planes.

Scott in Montana

[Richard Niemiec]

To end the discount speculation, I went to the source and emailed customer service.

Kirsten Lie-Nielsen wrote back:

"You are most welcome to visit the showroom! We do offer a 10% showroom discount, as you have heard. We are also happy to give tours of our shop upon request, and demonstrations of the tools. The showroom is open from 9 to 5 on weekdays, and thru the month of December on Saturdays as well."

So, for those so inclined, ask and ye shall receive, I guess. Covers any sales tax and then a little extra, if they have sales tax in Maine....

[Kieran Kammerer]

I am glad that is still the case. i was beginning to question my short term memory.

Kieran

[Jim Koepke]

I would wager that if you wrote, or called, Tom he would issue you the 10% discount; you should not have to ask for it.

Those who do not ask do not get.

I do not know about Maine, but here in the Washington/Oregon area many of the stores in Washington will drop the sales tax if you can show you are from Oregon. Due to people from Oregon getting upset, it is a common question when checking out at the cash register. Oregon does not have sales tax. Washingtonians are supposed to declare any items bought in Oregon annually on their state taxes. One problem is that Washington doesn't have an income tax so people do not file an annual tax statement.

Best laid plans of mice and men...

jim

[Chris S Anderson]

Does anyone think these planes:
http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2021170/WoodRiver-Planes.aspx
figure into a marketing decision by L-N?
Or maybe the decision is being made by Woodcraft.
Joe


I went to a blade sharpening class last weekend, and the instructor implied as to why Woodcraft is no longer getting any shipments of Lie Nielsen planes in their stores.

It seems Lie Nielsen is an honorable company, and Woodcraft pulled one on them. They were developing a line of planes together, and Lie Nielsen developed the plans for the plane and later decided that they could not produce the plane at the desired price and retain any profit. Woodcraft took the plans that were developed by Lie Nielsen and started production in Japan. And now there is a lawsuit. Happy times.

I wanted to buy a smoothing plane while at the class, but they only had 4 or 5 Lie Nielsens, and nothing that I was looking for. I asked if they could order one or if they would eventually get one in, as I wanted to use my in-class discount, but they said no.

[Kent A Bathurst]

.... Woodcraft pulled one on them..... Woodcraft took the plans that were developed by Lie Nielsen and started production in Japan. And now there is a lawsuit.......

Oh, jeeeeez. A few months back, I got myself a #71 router from Woodcraft, with a 20% discount and free freight - prolly $40 total saved. Assuming (and i have no reason to doubt it) you got the correct information, then I feel like a bit of a heel, because LN has always treated me very well. I'll still sleep at nite - that is one of 10 LN planes I have bought over 10 years, not to mention dovetail saw, mortise chisels, some screwdrivers, and a countersink - most direct from LN - but still.......that ain't close to to being right. I don't (knowingly) do business in that kind of environment.

[Steven Satur]

About two weeks ago I purchased a tool from Woodcraft. It did not work on my machine. I paid cash, I returned it the following week, with receipt, told them that it didn't work, got 1/2 my money back, the rest in store credit. I didn't even use the item, they could resell it no problem. Every time they have a sale or I get one of their coupons, even for a birthday, I am hard pressed to walk out with anything in my hand. They will be the next one to go OOB. They won't see me again.

[Sam Takeuchi]

I went to a blade sharpening class last weekend, and the instructor implied as to why Woodcraft is no longer getting any shipments of Lie Nielsen planes in their stores.

It seems Lie Nielsen is an honorable company, and Woodcraft pulled one on them. They were developing a line of planes together, and Lie Nielsen developed the plans for the plane and later decided that they could not produce the plane at the desired price and retain any profit. Woodcraft took the plans that were developed by Lie Nielsen and started production in Japan. And now there is a lawsuit. Happy times.

I wanted to buy a smoothing plane while at the class, but they only had 4 or 5 Lie Nielsens, and nothing that I was looking for. I asked if they could order one or if they would eventually get one in, as I wanted to use my in-class discount, but they said no.

Woodriver? If they were made in japan, they wouldn't be cheap. They make them at the next door :)

[Richard Niemiec]

About two weeks ago I purchased a tool from Woodcraft. It did not work on my machine. I paid cash, I returned it the following week, with receipt, told them that it didn't work, got 1/2 my money back, the rest in store credit. I didn't even use the item, they could resell it no problem. Every time they have a sale or I get one of their coupons, even for a birthday, I am hard pressed to walk out with anything in my hand. They will be the next one to go OOB. They won't see me again.

I hear you. Lately, I've not been happy with WC, and although I did put in an order last week, it was with a free shipping code, plus a $10 off a $20 order code, and I got $50 worth of shellac sticks on a closeout for a net-net of $10.85. That's the only type of business I will be doing with them. I used to do a lot more, but they've seemed to lose their customer focus, and now, if this story about a lawsuit with LN is even close to being true, their corporate integrity.

[Larry Frank]

I have always had very good luck with my local WoodCraft. I think a lot of it has to do with the individual owner of the store. The store owner has always been fair with me and taken tools back that either did not work or was not what I wanted. I suspect that the WoodCraft stores are having trouble like most other stores.
I like going to that store as I can actually pick up and feel a tool before I buy it. Most times, I could buy things a little cheaper online but can not get the feel of a tool with my computer screen.

[Jeff Schmidt]

We had more fun at "The Shelter Institute" just north of Bath, ME on the return trip. Hand tools of all types galore. Must have been 20 or 30 different Japanese cutoff saws alone. Quite frankly, Lie Neilson is quite overrated IMHO.

Ah....Pat and Patsy Hennin. I discovered them many years ago in one of Alex Wade's wonderful homebuilding books which highlighted their first home. Times were simpler then. <sigh> Quite a contrast to today's boutique tool hedonism.

[Joe Rogers]

I went to a blade sharpening class last weekend, and the instructor implied as to why Woodcraft is no longer getting any shipments of Lie Nielsen planes in their stores.

It seems Lie Nielsen is an honorable company, and Woodcraft pulled one on them. They were developing a line of planes together, and Lie Nielsen developed the plans for the plane and later decided that they could not produce the plane at the desired price and retain any profit. Woodcraft took the plans that were developed by Lie Nielsen and started production in Japan. And now there is a lawsuit. Happy times.

I wanted to buy a smoothing plane while at the class, but they only had 4 or 5 Lie Nielsens, and nothing that I was looking for. I asked if they could order one or if they would eventually get one in, as I wanted to use my in-class discount, but they said no.

When matched up with Lie-Nielsen and Lee Valley/ Veritas, Woodcraft seems to have its corporate head up its assets. I won't be back in either after this and other industrial hijacks.
JR

[Rick Erickson]

I have always had very good luck with my local WoodCraft. I think a lot of it has to do with the individual owner of the store. The store owner has always been fair with me and taken tools back that either did not work or was not what I wanted. I suspect that the WoodCraft stores are having trouble like most other stores.
I like going to that store as I can actually pick up and feel a tool before I buy it. Most times, I could buy things a little cheaper online but can not get the feel of a tool with my computer screen.

Agreed Larry. The owner of the WoodCraft here in my area (Atlanta) is a top notch guy and bends over backwards to work with his customers. I have had absolutely no problems with him or his store. Not sure what is going on with corporate but I wouldn't use a broad brush to include all retail stores.

In terms of LN discounts (or lack of) I don't personally have an issue with it. They are superb tools that a lot of hands touch before they get to me. They aren't imported pieces of junk that get stamped from a machine. I will gladly pay a premium for this. Personally I'm surprised they don't cost more than they do. I'm probably in the minority that thinks they aren't making a whole lot of money from each tool.

[Todd Hyman]

Agreed Larry. The owner of the WoodCraft here in my area (Atlanta) is a top notch guy and bends over backwards to work with his customers. I have had absolutely no problems with him or his store. Not sure what is going on with corporate but I wouldn't use a broad brush to include all retail stores.


I second Rick's comments. The guys here in the Atlanta store as well as other stores around the southeast seem to be very helpful, especially to one whom is still early in this "woodworking process".

[Jeff Willard]

... got 1/2 my money back, the rest in store credit.

Was that their idea? If so it is in complete contrast with their guarantee.


We’re absolutely confident that you’ll be satisfied with your purchase from Woodcraft! If you’re not, return it anytime within 90 days and we will gladly replace the product, give you credit, or refund your money, whichever you prefer. Woodcraft’s Guarantee does not apply to power tools, which are subject only to manufacturer’s warranties. Special-order items or manufacturer drop-ships are subject to a 25% restocking fee.
I too have become disappointed with Woodcraft of late. Dropping lines of tools for cheaper imports. Poorly stocked stores. Now I hear of shady business practices. I had sensed that they were phasing L-N out, much to my chagrin. I went in a couple of weeks ago with a certain L-N item in mind, armed with a birthday coupon and another 10% coupon. Didn't find what I was looking for, or anything else that I wanted. I walked out empty handed. I don't ever remember walking out of there without making a purchase. I suspect that these coupons will go unused.

FWIW, I've spent about $2000 between L-N, LeeValley, and Craftsman's Studio since my last purchase at Woodcraft.

[Richard Niemiec]

There are different ways to approach retailing when you have both brick and mortar and online sites; folks still like to handle and see things before they buy, and what WC is running up against is that other web sources are more able to price and ship below WC's markup, as likely as a result the high end handtools don't have much of a turnover in their retail stores. People come in and handle to goods and order online from another vendor. Witness what happened in October when WC put all LN on sale and gave free shipping - large volume, backorders and the retail stores moved goods. Now, makers like LN are setting up their own "events" that rifle shot target their customer base, and selling direct.

I am sure WC is struggling with its cost structure in maintaining and sustaining all the retail stores, franchise or not, and I can imagine that its franchisees are struggling with the franchise fees and putting pressure on WC in that regard. I'm sure they looked at the LV model and must have concluded that they have to contract manufacture something unique and different, higher quality, but lower cost than reselling LN or Veritas, where margins are thinner, and the Woodriver brand is the result. I don't know that the franchise model of brick and mortar is sustainable in this type of evolving marketing environment, but we'll see. WC just better hope that LV doesn't open stores in the US, as LV would eat WC's lunch, and dinner.....

[Mike Henderson]

As far as I know, most Woodcraft stores are franchise stores so a lot depends on the person who owns the store.

I have absolutely nothing but good things to say about my local store (in Stanton, CA) and the owner, Ingko Oetomo. He's been more than fair to me on many occasions - a more honest, hardworking guy you'll never find. The people who work there have all been there for many years, which to me says he treats his employees fairly, also. And they know their stuff. I wish all stores were run like Ingko runs his Woodcraft store.

I highly recommend the store and Ingko to any woodworker who needs supplies.

Mike

[Kent A Bathurst]

I second Rick's comments. The guys here in the Atlanta store as well as other stores around the southeast seem to be very helpful, especially to one whom is still early in this "woodworking process".

Yep - good people there. Not my primary destination, because I'm only 12 mintues from Highland, but I do go there a few times a year. My issue was only with the reported WC corporate shenanigans, and certainly not with the support and integrity of local franchisees and their talented people.