Which Model Jointer

[Luther Oswalt]

G0490 8" Jointer with Parallelogram Beds (http://www.grizzly.com/products/8-Jointer-with-Parallelogram-Beds/G0490) or G0656 8" x 72" Jointer with Mobile Base, are the parallelogram beds really proving to be much better than the dove tail sliders? I’m leaning toward the parallelogram at this point … I plan to order one or the other tomorrow. The cost is almost a wash with no shipping charge on the GO490. It appears this is the only 8” Grizzly model jointer with parallelogram beds.
Leo

[glenn bradley]

The p-beds were one of the top requirements during my decision process. After about 18 months of looking at everything in the 8" field I landed on the G0490X. I strongly recommend the spiral head. Mine has already paid for itself and I am still on the first of the four cutting surfaces. Price vs. cost of ownership.

Search here and elsewhere for threads on folks struggling to adjust their dovetail-way beds to get a reading on the value of p-beds. True, if the machine arrives setup well and nothing takes it out of alignment, the ease of adjusting p-beds is a moot point.

I do enjoy the tall fence, long beds and the power. IIRC the 656 is not a mag-switch like the 490(?). I'm sure they are both nice jointers for the money.

[Rick Bunt]

I'm a very happy G0490X owner. I also recommend the spiral cutterhead--if that's of interest or in budget.

Regardless, I really like the parallel bed adjustment. Initial set up aside, I find that I adjust the depth of cut (infeed table height) much more since it is so easy to do. Not that turning a wheel is really all that hard, but I like the ergonomics of the lever and table movement. So I'm more likely to set it deeper for a board with a lot of cupping, for example, and then go back to light passes for final flattening.

[george wilson]

As a machinist,I am having trouble seeing why the parallelogram table is better. Doesn't it just depend upon which type is made more accurately? If there is any discrepancy in the fitting of a parallelogram table,it won't be parallel. At least you can shim a dovetail table(though I wouldn't want to).

I haven't owned a P bed type. Can you adjust it if it is out of whack?

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I think George is right. It doesn't seem to me that there is any mechanical advantage to the parallelagram beds. They are cheaper to make, so those machines are a higher margin tool, so I've got to wonder if the push to sell them is an effort to really make some $'s on a maybe false thought that they are superior.

Think about it, on a parallelagram bed, you have four pins per bed, which combine to a very small amount of load bearing surface. These things are made to be adjusted, which will cause wear. The dovetail machines have a MUCH larger wear surface, plus the ability to take out wear slop. Buy what you want, but I really don't think that the parralelegram beds are even a little bit "better" than the dovetail ones.

Rick brought up the lever adjustment, which is a preference thing. I have had both, and personally prefer a wheel, but that could important to you. Doesen't somebody make a dovetail machine with a lever though? Seems like I remember one.

[Don Morris]

Seems to me after all the research I did before I bought my 8" jointer, the Parallelogram jointers just didn't have that much of an advantage, or...unless you were using it and adjusting it constantly day in and day out you just wouldn't know the difference and wouldn't probably see any difference for many a year. Thus, the things that you should look for in a jointer since they are relatively simple machines were: flat, longest table out of choices being made, warranty &/or company reputation for quality, which type of blade: helix, 3 or 4 blade, shelix, etc. overall weight for stability (but most 8"s are heavy enough to be stable), does it come with mobile base, tall fence, motor/power (e.g. Baldor's a good name). I'd look more to those factors than just whether it was a parallelogram or dove tail type. As mentioned, from what I hear, once adjusted well, you can't tell the difference. If you had a weak motor you could. If the fence wan't very tall or long you'd be unhappy, etc. Or, if the table was short, you might wish it were longer, which is why I didn't buy one machine when I saw it.

[Peter Aeschliman]

They are cheaper to make, so those machines are a higher margin tool, so I've got to wonder if the push to sell them is an effort to really make some $'s on a maybe false thought that they are superior.

That's the thing I've never understood about the pricing of parallelogram jointers. The mechanisms seem much more simple in their design and seem to require much less cast iron since there are no dovetail ways.

On the other hand, I don't see why cost cutters like Grizzly wouldn't offer them for less if they could, which leads me to believe they actually might be more expensive to make. Who knows?

Reading through the G0490 owner's manual, I see that the parallelism adjustments are MUCH MUCH easier than a dovetail way machine.

Having had to adjust a dovetail machine before (one of the most frustrating things I've ever had to do), at the same price, I'd go for the parallelogram machine.

And maybe that's simply why manufacturers charge more for them: they know customers are willing to pay for that convenience.

[Stephen Edwards]

I have the 6" version of the G0490, the G0604X. In retrospect I wish that I'd have bought the 8" but I got a great deal on my jointer from Grizzly's ebay store (paint blemish) and it was what I could afford at the time. No regrets under the circumstances.

My prior jointer was an old Craftsman with dovetail ways. I once spent more than a day getting that sucker aligned. Marketing hype or not, (I don't know) I'd never buy another new jointer without the P beds.

Good luck with your decision.

[Myk Rian]

If the knives and outfeed table are in alignment, I see no need for a parallelogram jointer. After all, it's the outfeed that you really do all the work with.

[Don Morris]

Agree, at the same price and all other things considered, parallelogram would be the choice. But don't let that be your over-riding factor without looking at all the other features that make for a good jointer.

[Tom Esh]

...I haven't owned a P bed type. Can you adjust it if it is out of whack?

Very easily. The top pivots are eccentric cams, which you simply rotate to adjust. That's the main advantage IMO. They're also supposed to stay in alignment better than the dt ways type. The head axis on mine wasn't quite parallel to the tables, but that was a non-issue with knives. When I put a Byrd head on it, I did have to adjust it.

[glenn bradley]

As a machinist,I am having trouble seeing why the parallelogram table is better. Doesn't it just depend upon which type is made more accurately? If there is any discrepancy in the fitting of a parallelogram table,it won't be parallel. At least you can shim a dovetail table(though I wouldn't want to).

I haven't owned a P bed type. Can you adjust it if it is out of whack?

First let's not get off on the wrong foot; dove tail ways are not bad, they can just be more difficult to adjust/repair. The p-beds use four independent eccentric adjusters for each table allowing alignment in any direction, if required, as opposed to shimming. The adjuster's load surface area is a complete tubular circle (a solid shaft inside an eccentric bushing that seats into a cylinder machined into the table), not just a small point on a cam as some suspect.

These mechanisms are for alignment, not height adjustment. Height is handled by a different, more robust assembly. As stated, if the machine arrives OK and never gets out of alignment, it a non-issue. Dove tail way jointers that were built before I was born (and I'm no spring chicken :)) are around and still operating fine. I had just read enough horror stories about folks struggling to align their DT-way tables that I realized I wasn't alone in what I went through with mine. I decided it was something I never wanted to have to address . . . again. YMMV.

[Barry Vabeach]

Luther, I agree with Don. I have owned both dovetailed and parallelogram jointers. The marketing hype is that the infeed and outfeed tables can stay closer to the cutter head because of the arc of their adjustment, with a dovetail, the gap between the tables and the cutter head increases are lowered. In practice, the outfeed table isn't lowered much so that is a non issue. For 95% of my cuts, the infeed is set for a light cut so the gap isn't much smaller on a P as opposed to the D jointer. On the occasions I set it for a stronger cut, it isn't that much lower, and thus the gap hasn't increased by much, certainly not enough to impact the result. I don't think they advertise that the adjustment of the P is a benefit. Instead, IIRC, most jointer with D ways, have the tables ground after the tables are placed on the machine and locked down, so it is hard for them to come out of the factory wrong. The posts about shimming them to get them coplanar are normally dealing with a machine produced in the 60's that had seen some hard use. If I was looking today, the most important factor is type of cutter - helical, standard knives resharpenable, standard knives replace only. Once you have made your decision on that, length of table, hp, fence. The final issues such as wheel v. lever adjustment , style of table ( smooth v. grooved) are matters of personal preference. That said I much prefer handwheels over levers for the outfeed table, since the adjustment is pretty fine.

[Glen Butler]

If you do a lot of jointing and you want to get the most out of a board, or you are going along and get a gnarly one that you don't want to run 5 time's, P is the way to go. It is so easy to unlock, lever up/down, relock.

If money is an issue surely a better cutterhead would win out. Cost aside D jointers have no benefit. P jointers, adjust faster, stay closer to cutterhead, stay true longer.

[Rick Fisher]

I used to have a Delta X 6" jointer.. I never changed the infeed table adjustment..

Since then, I upgaded to a Griggio and must admit that I change the infeed table constantly.. Edge Jointing I often change to 4mm, face jointing, back down to 2mm or 3mm . .

[Paul Johnstone]

As a machinist,I am having trouble seeing why the parallelogram table is better. Doesn't it just depend upon which type is made more accurately? If there is any discrepancy in the fitting of a parallelogram table,it won't be parallel. At least you can shim a dovetail table(though I wouldn't want to).

I haven't owned a P bed type. Can you adjust it if it is out of whack?

It is extremely easy to adjust the Parrellogram table. On my DJ-20, I just loosened the screw and turned the level.. The outfeed table raised slightly and everything stayed co-planer.

If you have this on a mobile base and are moving it around, it will tend to get bumped like mine. (Not really the machine's fault).

Getting parrallelogram beds for a little more $$ is def worth it to me.
Now, I wouldn't pay $1000 extra, but a little more marginal cost is worth it.

Now, I agree, with the dovetail beds, it's still possible to adjust, but I really hate tinkering with machines. I want to spend my time working wood instead.

[Luther Oswalt]

and it is the GO490 with the Parallelogram Beds ... thanks to all who help me with this choice ... It will be in Florida on Monday! That's pretty quick shipping!
Leo

[Rick Lizek]

As a machinist,I am having trouble seeing why the parallelogram table is better. Doesn't it just depend upon which type is made more accurately? If there is any discrepancy in the fitting of a parallelogram table,it won't be parallel. At least you can shim a dovetail table(though I wouldn't want to).

I haven't owned a P bed type. Can you adjust it if it is out of whack?
There is a big difference in dovetailed ways jointers versus parallelogram jointer.

Parallelogram jointers are adjustable at four points of each table. Dovetailed tables can only be shimmed in a limited fashion so you don't have the flexibility of P tables if something warps down the road. I have shimmed quite a few dovetailed jointers over 25 years and have had to regrind a dozen unshimable ones over the years.

Dovetailed jointers are ground as a complete unit. P tables can be ground seperately. Thus the need for a larger grinder is not necessary. So a dovetailed jointer table replacement will require the whole unit to be reground.

Parallelogram jointers are more expensive to produce which is evident by comparing P table jointers and dovetailed jointer from several manufacturers. Further proof is taking the tables off the respective jointers. Parallelogram tables are very time consuming to remove and reinstall compared to dovetailed ways jointers. I had to replace broken brackets on a SCMI parallelogram jointer and it was an all day project. There's a very powerful spring under the tables to help with table movement.

My favorite jointer table mechanism is the inclined type used on old Oliver, Crescent and a few other old time manufacturers. Basically it four pairs of inclines under each corner of each table. It has the simplicity of the dovetailed ways and the advantages of parallelogram adjustments. So basically there are three types of jointer table mechanisms but few know about the third type.

[Luther Oswalt]

It has arrived in Fl. and is at the trucking freight terminal in Ocala and I'm getting ready to go get it ... I am excited but am wanting to know that it made the trip without damage!