DC Questions: Harbor Freight 2 HP v. Delta 50-760; Thein Baffle; Wynn Cartridge

[Danny Thompson]

Okay, so its about time for some decent dust collection in my 20x24 shop (once and future garage). Reading through a bunch of threads it looks like the way to go for my budget is a single-stage dust collector with Wynn Cartridge and Thein Baffle (inside the unit) upgrades. Here are a few remaining questions.


(Context: The shop sees 0-12 hours of action a week; averages about 3. It contains a 3hp cabinet saw, 14" bandsaw, 8" jointer, lunchbox planer, drill press and router table. The shopvac has done everything it could, but simply can not reliably pull the sawdust out of the TS and planer.)

Q1: It seems the best DC choices are:

the Harbor Freight 2 HP unit because of price ($160 w/coupon, tax, and gas)
the Delta 50-760 1.5 HP unit because of a better design ($359 delivered)
So, how much better is the Delta? Is the performance substantially better?

Q2: Can Wynn's nano cartridge be washed? If no, does that mean it will need to be replaced more frequently than the 100 sq ft Spun Bond Polyester cartridge? The the SBP cartridge the better choice?

Q3: It sounds like all that is necesssary go gain the Thein benefits is to attach the offset cut mdf board (1 1/8" for 240º) inside the unit 1.25" below the intake? That's all?

Q4: What's the best link to a how-to of the "Stove Pipe upgrade", and is it necessary?

Q5: Is there a better DC solution under $600 (Delivered and ready to go)?

[Alan Schaffter]

Okay, so its about time for some decent dust collection in my 2-car garage shop. I've read through a bunch of threads and think the way to go is a single-stage dust collector with Wynn Cartridge and Thein Baffle (inside the unit) upgrades Here are a few remaining questions.

Q1: It seems the best DC choices are:

the Harbor Freight 2 HP unit because of price ($160 w/coupon, tax, and gas)
the Delta 50-760 1.5 HP unit because of a better design ($359 delivered)
So, how much better is the Delta?

What are the diameters of the fans (bigger is better)- you can't go by hp alone. Compare the amp draw- I suspect they are close, meaning the HF unit is probably closer to 1.5 hp. I have read about more HF (#?) motor failures than Delta (none). Where is the Delta motor made? Are they both made in China? Frankly, I don't like the "innovative vertical design" of the Delta 50-760- you are pretty much restricted to that configuration. With the HF setup you have more flexibility- can more easily add a cyclone, other separator, permanently mount the motor blower, etc. etc. I would look at other options like the 2 hp ShopFox W1666 on sale now at Amazon for $295.


Q2: Can Wynn's nano cartridge be washed? If no, does that make the 100 sq ft Spun Bond Polyester cartridge the better choice?

I doubt it. Most filters even if they can be washed are never the same afterwards. Often the REALLY fine stuff just gets embedded further, or just the opposite, the filtering efficiency is reduced- the same thing happens when you use a beater bar or compressed air to clean the filters. Remember, the stuff you need to filter is the stuff you can't see. Frankly I would go a different route (see below).



Q3: So, it sounds like all that is necessary go gain the Thein benefits is to add the offset cut mdf board (1 1/8" for 240º) inside the unit 1.25" below the intake? That's all?

No comment


Q4: What's the best link to a how-to of the "Stove Pipe upgrade", and is it necessary?

No comment.


Q5: Is there a better DC solution under $600 (Delivered and ready to go)?

Yes. Get the biggest DC motor/blower unit you can afford. You will get a better deal searching used sources, but in any case don't get bags or cartridge filters. Build your own full cyclone. If you are unsure of your ability to fabricate a cyclone, go with something like the baffle, THEN discharge outside without a cartridge or bag final filter, especially if you go with a 1.5 hp motor/blower which is pretty low on the hp scale for other than a single machine roll-around unit.

Every piece of DC equipment- inches of flex hose, inches of pipe, fittings (straight, bend, wye, blast gates, etc., etc.), filters, cyclones, baffles, etc.) adds resistance, increases static pressure, robs your system of valuable CFM, and most importantly reduces its ability to capture the maximum amount of visible and the more dangerous invisible dust AT THE SOURCE. From the outset, filters start to clog, whether you have a topnotch cyclone or just a baffle. You may not see it, you may not even be able to knock it off, but it is there, deep in the filter media and it reduces flow. If your filters are not really good they may block most of the visible dust, but let the invisible dust through, so why waste money on one unless you are forced to.

[Roger Jensen]

Where are you getting your design for the Thein baffle with these units? Curious where you are seeing that a single board below the intake.

I have the 50-760 with the Wynn filter. Works well, but I have to bang the filter quite often to clear the filter.

Roger

[Phil Thien]

I prefer the more conventional design of the HF over the Delta when it comes to modding the unit w/ a baffle.

That said, quite a few people have added separators to the Delta units by placing a drum under the inlet.

The HF units have apparently been redesigned w/ a larger blower wheel and w/ aggressive coupon use can be had for about $150. Add a cart. filter and baffle and you're set for about $300 to $325.

Or, if you can exhaust the fines outside, add the baffle to the HF ring and run the exhaust outside.

If you're going to exhaust outside, there is no point in building a large cyclone, just use the ring of your DC. Going through all that trouble to clean-up your fines just to pump them outside seems like a huge waste of time and money to me.

[Roger Jensen]

Is anyone putting the baffle inside the 50-760, or are they always putting a separate drum (canister) under the unit?

Roger

[David Hostetler]

The advantages of the Delta are subtle, but they matter.

Ratings being what they are, it is more truthful to call both of them 1.5 HP units.

The Delta unit, given the fact that there is no ribbed hose between impeller has the advantage of improved airflow. Smoothing the airflow out of the HF unit through either a stovepipe mod, or better yet, picking up and rotating the impeller to be even with the inlet ring, would eliminate that advantage of the Delta.

I have not done it yet, but the stovepipe mod is well documented on BT3Central.com, go there and do a search for "stovepipe", the first thread that should show up in the search results is about HF dust collector mods. User LarryG has done the stovepipe mod to his. It looks like he simply took two 5" articulating elbows, the kind that you rotate to make various angles, screwed them together, and then made his bends and connections to the DC, clear silicone and machine screws to seal it and hold it in place. The reports are this dramatically improves air flow performance.

The HF units are known for failure of the switch, and the start / run capacitor. ALL Dust collectors that I am aware of are prone to the start / run capacitor problem. I have not noticed the HF one more prone than the Delta in that regard, others may disagree... The switch however IS a weak point on the HF. Mine hasn't failed yet, but the fellow that just moved out from across the street from me replaced his twice in 10 years...

I do not know about the new Wynn Nano Fiber filter and washability. I suspect it is washable. I have the spun bond poly, and love the performance of it. Remember the rating is 99.99% at 1 micron. They had a chart somewhere that showed that even at the .5 micron level, filtration was still quite high, over 90% if I recall right.

The HF unit DOES lend itself MUCH better to an internal Thien baffle than the Delta. However, after having done that, I took it out and went with an external Thien pre-separator. I did not notice a performance hit like some others have mentioned. But my longest run is 20'. You might want to consider a pre separator if debris colliding with the impeller is a concern of yours as it was for me.

If you are buying new, it is insanely difficult to justify the additional cost of the Delta. BUT... if you are fortunate enough to find one, and they occasionally, but rarely pop up, find a 50-760 on Craigslist for under $200.00, I would grab a good used one before the HF unit. Everyone has a price tipping point, and that is my mark on the Delta... It's simply not worth that much more to me...

[Brian Effinger]

Q2: Can Wynn's nano cartridge be washed? If no, does that mean it will need to be replaced more frequently than the 100 sq ft Spun Bond Polyester cartridge? The the SBP cartridge the better choice?

Give Wynn a call. When I bought my paper filter from them, I spoke with Dick Wynn directly and he was very helpful, and a nice guy. We even talked about the nano cartridge, but I don't remember if he mentioned washability.

[Danny Thompson]

Great responses!

Alan,
Unfortunately, I'm in a suburban area. My gar-shop is < 20 feet from the neighbor's yard. So, venting outside is out of the question.

Regarding building a cyclone, I love the idea of the savings, but have learned over the past 2-3 years that I get significantly more pleasure from working wood than working machines (witness the last 9 months in which I spend more time working on my jointer than woodworking on my jointer). The Baffle is about as far as I want to go in the mods department.

Roger,
The best threads about adding an ring inside the unit that I could find are these:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=74713
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=80701&page=2

Phil,
Thanks for the suggestion. I found this thread on adding a separator on the bottom of the cart next to the lower bag, which seems like a great idea.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=93240

So, the pre-separator is the way to go, you think?

[Phil Thien]

Phil,
Thanks for the suggestion. I found this thread on adding a separator on the bottom of the cart next to the lower bag, which seems like a great idea.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=93240

So, the pre-separator is the way to go, you think?

The only downside to that design is that the size of the drum is somewhat limited by the size of the cart. So if you prepare lots of rough stock, emptying the drum can become a pain.

[Alan Schaffter]

Whatever you do, get rid of that 4X4x6 wye on the intake. I noticed the pic at your link showed a unit with it still installed. That literally kills performance.

If you are interested in a discussion of why, read the stuff at this link (http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/Michael%27s_Page.htm). It gets a bit technical and dry, but you can skip the first part and go to the section titled: "Some Effects of Decreased Duct Area:" It shows actual test results of a 1.5 hp, single stage DC with the wye and with a 6" inlet. Even at the static pressures which you are likely to see, the CFM is nearly cut in half!!