How to get PM2700 into basement...

[Cameron Reddy]

My new PM2700 shaper is on the way and I'm looking into how I'm going to get it into my basement shop. I've basically slid machines :eek: into the basement in the past, including my PM2000 table saw.

But the big shaper appears to be a little more cumbersome. I'm thinking of renting or buying one of those electric stair climbing hand trucks...

So, I thought I'd ask you folks for suggestions.

Does anyone know if that huge 30" X 40" table can be taken off?

[Bill Orbine]

The motor and quill is attached to the table..... so you are looking into a big job. Avoid it if you can. You can remove the fence to save some space. You are not saying if the shapper would fit thru the door. If you can, a good strong hand truck and a couple strong guys and a case of beer can do the job.......

[Dan Forman]

How much does it weigh, and how even does the weight appear to be distributed? Top heavy makes things more difficult if it can't be turned upside down.

Dan

[Steve Rowe]

My suggestion is to hire professional riggers to do the job. Another option might be to hire a moving company.

[Peter Quinn]

I have no idea if the table is removable. But the last thing I moved into my basement shop was a minimax 5HP shaper, and I think I finally got it right this time. I've moved a number of large machines in, including a PM66, mostly with a furniture moving hand truck or down planks if they were well packaged. Each move was stupider and more dangerous than the next. Limbs were nearly lost and future children not made when the compressor went in. I lost friends when the drum sander went in, "You said this thing weights 200# but the crate is marked 570# you bleeeeeeeeping....moron" was one quote I remember. The jointer was no joy either, but that helper still talks to me at least! I've never had anyone willing to help me move a second machine until now.

This time I built a quick ramp up to the bilco head with a flat platform at the transition, then skids going down. I strapped the shaper (this one used, not in a crate) to the fridge mover which had a four wheel type thing going on. I chained the fridge mover to the frame of my AWD full sized van. My BIL and I got the shaper/hand truck assembly in place on the ramp at the top of the bilco, we had our driver (my SIL) snug up the chain, then we eased it over the edge headed down and she slowly backed up while we guided it. Well over #500 with a rather large iron top went down just as easy as pie. I saved a fortune on beer and pain pills, my helpers would return if asked, and no disassembly was required.

I took the top off my Delta HD shaper when it went in, and putting that back together was some of the least fun times I can remember. Typically the spindle assembly is mounted to the top on most shapers and you don't want to mess with that, so you wind up with a large heavy awkward and now unprotected thing that you have to try and lower back into its cabinet and re-bolt at the other end. It might be better to pull the motor to drop weight if necessary. I feel that separating the spindle assembly from the top in ANY WAY will be a big mistake that you would quickly live to regret, as that alignment is difficult to reestablish and critical to the machines performance. The spindle MUST be perpendicular to the table for things to work well.

It turns out 3 tons of van powered by a large V-8 wins against 600# of iron in a tug of war every time. Maybe more winch than I needed? Definitely get some powered lift or mechanical winch involved. Because the had carry is for the birds. BTDT

[Cameron Reddy]

Peter, that's funny as heck. Thanks for the reply!


How much does it weigh, and how even does the weight appear to be distributed?...
Dan

About 650 pounds. I assume most of the weight is the table, but the cast iron base and motor assembly have got to be pretty heavy too.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Cameron

[Dan Forman]

With a couple of friends, I got my Unisaw (300 lb), 16" bandsaw (500 lb), lathe (600 lb, but disassembled) down into my basement. The first two were strapped to an appliance dolly.

The jointer/planer (850 lb) involved a whole bunch of people, and was a near disaster, as being top heavy, it nearly tilted right off the sled it was riding on to go down the stairs, held back by several guys using a block and tackle with the rope additionally wound around one of the porch posts. Midway through had to add a strap to keep it fixed to the sled. It also wanted to steer to the left which was not fun.

Sounds like your shaper will be top heavy too, which can be a problem when you have it tipped going down the stairs. The bandsaw was relatively easy because, being long and narrow, the weight was evenly distributed. 650 lb is a lot of weight to control, when bulky or unbalanced, even more so.

Dan

[Glen Butler]

I am envious. I ended up with the PM25A, and wished I could've afforded the 2700. It is a beastly machine.

HF has some floor dolley's for cheap. When I need to move tools around it is not too difficult to get most tools onto them. Strap the wheel to the machine and using a powered winch as Peter was saying, down some ramps. I imagine the 2700 is quite top heavy so be certain to winch the load above the center of gravity.

[Philip Johnson]

Cameron

I have the same shaper, took a look and it would be difficult to take the table off but not impossible. The motor and spindle assembly are bolted to the table, you could disconnect the wires to the motor and maybe take the table and motor and whole works off. It comes on a pallet and in a cardboard box, it may be easier to strap on an appliance cart while its still in the box. On the plus side once it is on its own wheels it moves very nice. If your board and need something to read the owners manuals are available online at the Powermatic website.

Phil

[mreza Salav]

I moved an industrial Sawstop (about 650#) downstairs by myself recently :eek: but had to disassmble the whole saw and gut it out. The heavy part was the top and the trunnion assembly. I used a dolly and it went OK but wouldn't do it again. Stupid Stupid Stupid move.
I'd suggest disassemble it and ask a friend to help you take the pieces down there.

[Jim Foster]

If the stairs are strong enough, I'd suggest you rig a ramp with a couple 2x12s and put stop blocks every foot or so that you remove in progress and then set up a come-a-long to lower it while it is on a dolly of some type. Depending on access to the sides of the stairs, I'd be very careful how I remove the stop blocks.

If you can't attach a come-a-long anywhere on top, run the cable underneath or between the 2x12s and rig a pulley at the head of the ramp, so can run the come-a-long from below. JUST MAKE SURE you can operate it from a safe position.

Also; Try the whole rig with a similar sized box with a bag of sand or something in it so you know what it's like to walk through the procedure.

[Rob Damon]

You didn't indicate which model. Mine is the 5 hp, which weights 769lbs. The 3hp weights 664 lbs. So unless you are a weight lifter, lifting one side alone on level ground is 385lbs for the larger one, so it is not a one man job without lifting equipment.

If you crank the side handle about 800 turns (??) it will raise the shaper off the a level floor about 1/2". So if you can get a nice flat ramp, it can roll down most of the way. I would think a winch with a moving strap wrapped securely around the top, could get it down. Just make sure it can handle and hold the weight. I would use two winches (comealongs) just for safety, in case one binds/breaks.

You will need to remove the fence and dust collector shroud to get to the minimum distance for going through a door way. The website says the table is 30" x 40", so it should go through a 36" door, but may be tight going through a 30" door. I can measure tonight for the exact front to back dimensions.

Once it is on a flat surface, it moves around on it's caster pretty easy.

Good luck.

Rob

[Scott T Smith]

I have no idea if the table is removable. But the last thing I moved into my basement shop was a minimax 5HP shaper, and I think I finally got it right this time. I've moved a number of large machines in, including a PM66, mostly with a furniture moving hand truck or down planks if they were well packaged. Each move was stupider and more dangerous than the next. Limbs were nearly lost and future children not made when the compressor went in. I lost friends when the drum sander went in, "You said this thing weights 200# but the crate is marked 570# you bleeeeeeeeping....moron" was one quote I remember. The jointer was no joy either, but that helper still talks to me at least! I've never had anyone willing to help me move a second machine until now.

This time I built a quick ramp up to the bilco head with a flat platform at the transition, then skids going down. I strapped the shaper (this one used, not in a crate) to the fridge mover which had a four wheel type thing going on. I chained the fridge mover to the frame of my AWD full sized van. My BIL and I got the shaper/hand truck assembly in place on the ramp at the top of the bilco, we had our driver (my SIL) snug up the chain, then we eased it over the edge headed down and she slowly backed up while we guided it. Well over #500 with a rather large iron top went down just as easy as pie. I saved a fortune on beer and pain pills, my helpers would return if asked, and no disassembly was required.

I took the top off my Delta HD shaper when it went in, and putting that back together was some of the least fun times I can remember. Typically the spindle assembly is mounted to the top on most shapers and you don't want to mess with that, so you wind up with a large heavy awkward and now unprotected thing that you have to try and lower back into its cabinet and re-bolt at the other end. It might be better to pull the motor to drop weight if necessary. I feel that separating the spindle assembly from the top in ANY WAY will be a big mistake that you would quickly live to regret, as that alignment is difficult to reestablish and critical to the machines performance. The spindle MUST be perpendicular to the table for things to work well.

It turns out 3 tons of van powered by a large V-8 wins against 600# of iron in a tug of war every time. Maybe more winch than I needed? Definitely get some powered lift or mechanical winch involved. Because the had carry is for the birds. BTDT


What a great post!

[Cameron Reddy]

Have any of you guys ever used one of those stair climbing hand trucks?

Reading your comments, I'm beginning to doubt that I can do this. My stairs have a 90 degree turn half way down... and the landing isn't very big... and I'm trying to imaging turning in the stairs (at the landing)...

I got a huge tool cabinet 40 wide X 40 tall X 22 deep" around that corner about a year ago, but this top is 40 X 30 and it's however tall...

I may have to build a wooden box the size of the shaper to know if it will go around the corner.

Thanks again everyone!

[David Winer]

[QUOTE
I may have to build a wooden box the size of the shaper to know if it will go around the corner.
[/QUOTE]
I looked at picture of the machine and it seems that the part that could jam is the cast iron table. Perhaps all you need to build as a mock-up is a simple frame the size of the table--then see if that can be maneuvered around the stairway turn. Never had this problem, but hey, you're looking for ideas.

[Rob Damon]

I still have the cad drawing I sent to Quality grinding of the top of the shaper so they could make up two 16" wide steel extension wings. Here is a pdf plot.

I can send you a Autocad 2009 (or earlier version) or DXF if you can use it. Just PM me.

When the PDF is printed on a 8-1/2"x11" it is at 1-1/2" = 1'-0". This should help in making a template.

Rob

[Cameron Reddy]

Rob,

Thanks for the PDF! That will help a lot!

Everyone else,

I really appreciate all of the help. What a wonderful group of woodworkers.

:):):):):)