Derek"s Infill

[lowell holmes]

Have you fellows and gals seen Derek's Infill plane he made from a Stanley #3? Check his web site.

It blows my socks off.

I have an old Dunlap that's about the size of a No. 3 . . .Hmmm

Probably not. :)

Maybe Derek will comment about it.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Lowell

All I will say is that this is a fairly easy build, and it is really worth it. Do it! This little smoother has performance up there with the very best.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Bob Glenn]

Okay, no more secrets. Let us all know where Derek's website is. :confused:

[lowell holmes]

I thought maybe Derek would post it. I hope this is acceptable, it's too impressive not to post.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/A_Galoots_infill_smoother.html

[John Schroeder]

Truly impressive. After running across that post I've held onto a derelict #4 that I'd like to try that with someday. I think a bit more confidence and a lull in projects are in order before I tackle it. I also suspect Derek's skills might make that look a bit more straightforward than I'd find it to be.

One question I've had in the back of my mind is about the bedding angle. Derek raised it to 25 degrees to reduce the bevel angle. Is there an issue with bevels above 30 degrees? I know LV sells a 50 degree beveled iron for their BU series and I always how a bevel that high would perform. I would gather that there is a degradation in performance going from 30 to 50? If so can anyone explain why?

[lowell holmes]

I have the LV BU Jack plane with all of the irons including the 50 degree iron. The 12 degree bed angle with the 50 degree beveled iron gives you 62 degrees. This works well on knarly interlaced wood like curly maple. It takes a lot more effort to push the plane with that combination.
The higher angle is not as prone to get under the grain and lift it. I normally use the 38 dgree iron, but I do use the 25 degree iron for end grain.
Derek's 25 degree bed angle coupled with a 35 degree iron gives him a 60 degree cutting angle which is good for smoothing difficult wood. The plane is more narrow than the bevel up smoothers from LN and LV. I imagine that eases the force required to use the plane.
Maybe Derek will comment.

[Derek Cohen]

Think of this plane as a large block plane. It is very easy to use one-handed. Also, because it is a smoother, it is set up to take very fine shavings, with a narrower blade and a low centre of gravity, and all this requires far less effort than most other types of planes. The high cutting angle is not an issue under these conditions.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[John Schroeder]

Thanks for the clarification, I guess my question was actually more about the bevel angle versus the total included angle. For example, is there any drawback to a 50 degree bevel with a 12 degree bed, say versus a 32 degree angle and a 30 degree bed? Both get you to 62 degrees, but does a 25 to 30 degree bevel angle perform better than a 40 or 50 degree bevel angle, assuming the included angle is the same? Since you chose to bed yours higher than the typical bevel up plane, it peaked my curiosity. I'd been wondering about it since I own the LV BU jointer and love it, but wondered about the 50 degree bevel. I believe I've read that 25 is "ideal" but never understood why or what the drawback to a much higher bevel like 50 would be. Does it hold an edge better, is it easier to sharpen, or does it meet the wood differently? Cheers and thanks for any light you might shine on this one.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi John

There are two drawbacks to the 12 degree bed plus 50 degree bevel (versus the 25 degree bed plus 35 degree bevel).

1. In theory, the low bed is associated with a faster developing wear bevel on the back of the blade, which (again in theory) should decrease the longevity of the edge. In practice I cannot say that I have noticed much difference. I designed this plane in part to explore this area.

2. I prefer to hone blades freehand. This is not an easy thing to do (impossible actually) when you want an accurate secondary microbevel. Secondary microbevels are the only way you will achieve a camber on a BU blade, even the fine camber needed for a smoother, and these are best done on a honing guide (which I use for BU blades). Further, I like to strop blades between honings, and this is not possible on a secondary bevel. So, if I have a 25 degree bed, I only need a 35 degree bevel, and this is reasonable to freehand. I use a hollow ground coplanar 35 degree primary bevel on this plane, which makes it easy to strop.

Of course, if you do not freehand blades, prefering a honing guide, and do not strop, then this issue is moot.

For reasons why you need a 25 degree primary bevel (and a high secondary microbevel) on blades used on BU planes with 12 degree beds, read my article, The Secret to Cambering Bevel Up Plane Blades

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/TheSecretToCamberinBUPlaneBlades.html

Another article that may interest you (read at night if you are struggling to sleep), Beyond a Sharp Edge: A Sharpening Strategy
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/BeyondSharpASharpeningStrategy.html

You didn't realise how complicated a bed change could be, did you?!

Regards from Perth

Derek

[lowell holmes]

I mis-read your question John. Thanks to you and Derek for clarifying the question.

[lowell holmes]

Derek,
I'm looking at the old Dunlap plane that I have, thinking about the infill. It is the equivilent of the Stanley #3.
The sole is flat, the sides square, and the thickness of the metal is uniform throughout. I'm thinking the protrusion for the knob and the frog would be ground smooth. The ridge between the mouth and the knob would stay. The back 1 1/2" to 2" might be sawn off. Am I on the right track?

Is the reason for using Jarrah a cosmetic preference or are there also mechanical reasons?

Thanks for responding.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Lowell

That sounds fine.

The Jarrah was simply because I have plenty of it, and it is a stable and attractive dense hardwood.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[John Schroeder]

Hi John

There are two drawbacks to the 12 degree bed plus 50 degree bevel (versus the 25 degree bed plus 35 degree bevel).

1. In theory, the low bed is associated with a faster developing wear bevel on the back of the blade, which (again in theory) should decrease the longevity of the edge. In practice I cannot say that I have noticed much difference. I designed this plane in part to explore this area.

2. I prefer to hone blades freehand. This is not an easy thing to do (impossible actually) when you want an accurate secondary microbevel. Secondary microbevels are the only way you will achieve a camber on a BU blade, even the fine camber needed for a smoother, and these are best done on a honing guide (which I use for BU blades). Further, I like to strop blades between honings, and this is not possible on a secondary bevel. So, if I have a 25 degree bed, I only need a 35 degree bevel, and this is reasonable to freehand. I use a hollow ground coplanar 35 degree primary bevel on this plane, which makes it easy to strop.

Of course, if you do not freehand blades, prefering a honing guide, and do not strop, then this issue is moot.

For reasons why you need a 25 degree primary bevel (and a high secondary microbevel) on blades used on BU planes with 12 degree beds, read my article, The Secret to Cambering Bevel Up Plane Blades

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/TheSecretToCamberinBUPlaneBlades.html

Another article that may interest you (read at night if you are struggling to sleep), Beyond a Sharp Edge: A Sharpening Strategy
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/BeyondSharpASharpeningStrategy.html

You didn't realise how complicated a bed change could be, did you?!

Regards from Perth

Derek

Many thanks Derek, that was exactly the information I was looking for. As I'm still climbing the learning curve, I find it easier (but more time consuming) to use a honing guide, so that isn't an issue for me at the moment. I look forward to reading both articles - as luck would have it we just welcomed our second daughter into our family, so with a new baby in the house I'll sure I'll have lots of late night reading time! Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and experience.

Cheers,

John

[lowell holmes]

Derek,

Thanks for responding.


Lowell

[Jack Camillo]

Derek is a woodworking icon. What else can be said? Thanks for starting this thread.