Yellow glue

[Kevin Villas]

I was reading through some back posts and I see everyone that uses yellow glue seems to use Titebond II for the most part on everything instead of I. Is that because its a bit stronger? I have always used I on indoor projects. I see now a lot of comments on switching to III instead of I or II.

Just curious if there are any other reasons behind this.

Also could someone explain "creep" to me, the reason some say happens weeks after glues and thats why they dont use yellow glue?

Since I plan on using yellow glue on some small veneer pieces, should I use III on that? I plan to get some today to try it out

Thanks

[Jim Becker]

Type II PVA was developed to be somewhat moisture resistant which means it can be used in some outdoor situations; otherwise it's very similar to Type I PVA which is strictly for indoor use. I use the type II universally simply because I don't want to have to deal with two different formulas. They perform pretty much identically. Type III is new...and I'll likely try it when my supply of type II runs out. The extra open time would be convenient, too.

[Michael Ballent]

People seem to use Titebond II because it has more open time before it sets. Can't really talk about creep though, I think it involves the glue moving around over time. Someone on here can certainly explain better :)

[Pete Lamberty]

I just use regular old Elmers white glue. As you know wood expands and contracts with the changes in humidity. When wood expands the glue will expand with it. But when the wood contracts after it has expanded the glue will not contract. So now the glue bulges out a little from the glue line.

[Bob Smalser]

I largely stopped using white and yellow glues almost 30 years ago after my first job working in a commercial shop doing both new and restoration work.

1) Joints are nearly impossible to repair without splicing in new wood once they've been saturated with aliphatic glue. Any knowledgeable grandchildren may cuss your work some day come repair time on those heirlooms.

2) They can creep badly under clamping load....that means your edges go out of alignment...usually after you've left the shop for the day.

3) Short "open" time...how long you have to work fussing with the glueup.

4) Aliphatic glues freeze in space heated shops.

5) They are relatively expensive for what they are.

For general-purpose gluing I use powdered UF plastic resin glue in place of aliphatics...superior for my purposes in every way. Boatbuilding suppliers like Jamestown Distributors still carry it, as does Ace Hardware.

Also polyurethane, various marine epoxies, cyano, resorcinol and hot hide glue in about that order depending on wood species and application.

[Jamie Buxton]

Creep is a phenomenon in some solid materials. In general, fluids are supposed to flow, and solids are supposed to not flow. However, some solid materials do flow, just a bit. One fine example is the teflon tape used in plumbing. We depend on it to flow around to form a water-tight pressure-roof seal.

PVA has a reputation for creep, although there are very experienced woodworkers who say they've never seen it happen. (I suspect that those very experienced woodworkers also make very tight joints with very thin glue lines. The thin glue lines would display less creep.)

For the creep effect to move PVA, the glue must be under long-term stress. In most wood joinery, that's not the case. However, in some specialized construction, there is constant stress on the glue; cold bent lamination is a fine example.

Generally, is creep is not an issue in most gluing operations in the small shop, and PVA is acceptable. If you're doing bent laminations, you might consider glues which don't creep. Urea-formaldehyde and epoxy are two non-creeping examples. The drawback to them is that they're more trouble to use.