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robert dankert
12-03-2009, 5:25 PM
Hi, I am interested in giving hand planes a try. I posted this on another forum, but no luck. I have three block planes - two Miller Falls and a Craftsman; and three Stanleys - #4,5,& 7. I am trying to learn about the planes historically as well as how to clean, tune and use. All planes were given to me. I am not going to sell them.

Right now I am trying to date the Stanleys and need help. I have spent a large amount of time on the internet and am getting frustrated. I don't know if all of the parts are original to the bodies. Would appreciate help (info, resources) to at least ID the bodies.

I've been mainly using the Plane Feature Timeline at
http://www.hyperkitten.com/tools/stanley_bench_plane/tl_timeline.php (http://www.hyperkitten.com/tools/stanley_bench_plane/tl_timeline.php)
and Rex Mill
https://home.comcast.net/~stanleyplanes/planes101/typing/typing.htm

My planes are pictured here (13 pics)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rjdankert/4153347262/in/set-72157622795872293/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rjdankert/4153347262/in/set-72157622795872293/)

This is what I have found (and not found):

note:The numbers are the plane type that the features were found on. The features not found were to eliminate some types to try to narrow down my plane type. For example frog receiver "Y" shaped is found on types 19 - 20. My #4 has this feature. The blue color is found on type 20 and not found on my plane. To me this points to a type 19.

#4 Smooth plane / Type

-raised ring cast in bed at toe 14 - 20
-lever cap logo "STANLEY" in notched rectangle 13 - 20
-Bailey marking behind knob 15 - 20
-"MADE IN U.S.A" behind frog 15 - 20
-plane size cast in toe in front of knob 15 - 20
-lever cap hole kidney-shaped 16 - 20
-iron stamped"STANLEY" in not. rect."MADE IN U.S.A." 16 - 20
-frog receiver "Y" shaped 19 - 20
-iron top shape rounded 19 - 20
-lat.adj.lever stamped "STANLEY" vertically 19

Not Found:
-painted blue 20

Assuming I have correctly identified the frog receiver and the lateral adjustment lever is original this would be a Type 19 1948-1961.

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#5 Jack plane

-Bailey marking - cast in toe - in front of knob 9 - 14
-lat.adj.lever stamped "STANLEY" 9 - 18
-lever cap logo "STANLEY" in notched rectangle 13 - 20
-raised ring cast in bed at toe 14 - 20
-bed broad flat rib around toe and heel 16 - 20
-lever cap hole kidney-shaped 16 - 20
-"MADE IN U.S.A" - cast into bed behind knob ?
-plane size cast behind tote ?
-iron stamped "STANLEY" in not. rect.
"MADE IN U.S.A." "PAT 1.918.750"


Not Found:
-foundry numbers - "73","71" cast in bed 4 - 15
-"U.S. PAT. APR-19-10" behind frog 13 - 14
-"MADE IN U.S.A" behind frog 15 - 20
-depth adjustment nut knurling diagonal 18

With the Bailey marking in front of the knob and the raised ring under the knob suggests to me a type 14, but I cannot find foundry numbers on the bed, a patent behind the frog, or "MADE IN U.S.A" behind frog. Also this plane has a rib around the toe and heel.

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#7 Jointer

-Bailey marking - cast in toe - in front of knob 9 - 14
-lat.adj.lever stamped "STANLEY" 9 - 18
-lever cap logo "STANLEY" in notched rectangle 13 - 20
-raised ring cast in bed at toe 14 - 20
-lever cap hole kidney-shaped 16 - 20
-iron stamped"STANLEY" in not. rect."MADE IN U.S.A." 16 - 20
-"MADE IN U.S.A" - cast into bed behind knob ?
-plane size cast behind tote ?
-"U" stamped in frog ?
-frog receiver is the same "Y" shape on my #4

Not Found:
-foundry numbers - "73","71" cast in bed 4 - 15
-"U.S. PAT. APR-19-10" behind frog 13 - 14
-"MADE IN U.S.A" behind frog 15 - 20
-depth adjustment nut knurling diagonal 18

This one (like the #5) has the Bailey marking in front of
the knob and the raised ring under the knob and lacks the foundry numbers on the bed, a patent behind the frog, or "MADE IN U.S.A" behind frog. Heel and toe do NOT have raised ribs.

Bob

Sean Hughto
12-03-2009, 5:51 PM
I don't mean this as a slam at all, but I have to ask, why do you care about this esoterica? Are you a collector?

The Stanley time line stuff is all pretty loose as Stanley used what it had in stock to make planes as required, so lots of blurring occurred.

Bill Wilcox
12-03-2009, 5:59 PM
Try this site. It has quite a bit of information.

http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0a.html

Jim Koepke
12-03-2009, 6:37 PM
Robert,

Welcome to the Creek.

Date typing planes is an inexact science at best. Most of the information, though based on extensive research, is really a case of best guess.

Often, parts were swapped between different planes that can cause confusion. Some people insist that since their plane has a Sweet Hart blade, the whole plane has to be from the Sweet Hart years. Blades are the most common part to be changed from plane to plane. Cap irons or chip breakers along with lever caps are most likely the second most often swapped parts.

One way to make sense from the date typing guides is to understand that often foundry marks may be missing. The things that are usually constant are changes that were carried forward. If there is a ring around the knob at the toe, then it is a type 14 or later no need to look for the carry overs from the earlier dates. Same if there is a raised area at the toe and heel of the plane, it is a type 15 or later.

My preference has been stated many times before. So this is about where my thoughts on date typing end since my preference is for type 13 or earlier, mostly earlier. This does not mean anything is wrong with the later planes, it is just my preference.

For example, your #4 has features of a type 19 but not a type 20, then it is likely a type 19. Look at the blade adjusting yoke. Is it cast or two pieces of metal pressed together? Cast is type 19, two pieces of metal bent together type 20.

After this, the date typing kind of falls apart as power tools came into play and there was not as much emphasis on quality in wood working hand tools. As more emphasis was placed on cost, things did not get better.

Stanley did not have any idea people would care about this when the planes were being made. They used whatever they had on hand to pump product out the door.

Another problem with type studies is that new discoveries are made. I have a plane that does not fit any of the studies. Some studies include information on the particular plane, but most do not. To give this plane its proper place in the studies would require all of the Stanley/Bailey planes made after 1892 to have their type number increased by one. The same with type 9s having a distinct difference between early and late type 9 planes. The common practice seems to be to add a letter a to the type number to indicate a new discovery.

There are also some errors that have crept into the studies that have not been purged. One has to remember that type studies are often put together as acts of love for the hobby and not something that a person was paid to do. They are like pieces of art. Once the originator has finished with it, they do not have any great motivation to do any editing.

jim

dan sherman
12-03-2009, 6:58 PM
I don't mean this as a slam at all, but I have to ask, why do you care about this esoterica? Are you a collector?

No to speak for the OP, but I personally like knowing what I'm buying, because some types are better than others IMO.

for example:
type 9: The frog is redesigned (a lot of people consider this to be the best design).
type 16: the frog is redesigned again (it has smaller seating surfaces).

Sean Hughto
12-03-2009, 7:32 PM
I agree that especially when buying, it is useful to know some information that gives you a strong sense of the type and vintage. The OP already has the planes, and is not selling them. He seems to have IDs the types roughly, at least, but seemed to be delving into secondary foundary marks and such. More power to him, I just wondered what the info would mean to a user as opposed to a collector. As I said, no slight was intended.

robert dankert
12-03-2009, 7:54 PM
Bill, Thanks for the link. I have already spent some time on that site and enjoiy it.
Bob

robert dankert
12-03-2009, 8:00 PM
Jim, thank you for your very thoughtfull reply and perspective. Bob

Jim Koepke
12-04-2009, 3:43 AM
I just wondered what the info would mean to a user as opposed to a collector.

For me, a lot of this has to do with interchangeability of parts, particularly the base and frog.

It is also of interest to notice if a plane being looked at is original parts or if it may have been made up of some spare parts that were laying around.

It can help one to pay less on planes that are great users but franken planes to a collector.

jim