Using a shoulder plane for rabbet clean up on BE Maple?

[John Schroeder]

A bit of background: I'm relatively new to the neanderthal side of things, but have started down the slippery slope of hand planes - fun but very addictive. I've now got a a pre-war stanley #4, a millers falls 65 block, a 9 1/2, a couple of wooden rabbets, along with the LV BU jointer and the LV large shoulder plane. Mostly I use them to clean up joints, along with final flattening and smoothing.

So I've now got a situation where I need to clean up a rabbet with the grain in birdseye maple for a critical glued joint. I would love to be able to take the same ultra-fine shavings with no tear out that I got on the front edge with the BU jointer. With their wide mouths, I don't think the wooden rabbets are up to the task, and the shoulder has an included angle of 40 degrees, which is going to cause tear out.

I really love the BU jointer and plan to acquire the BU jack for shooting and the smoother when funds permit. I don't really use the low angle blade it came with, as I often work with difficult grains. I ended up buying the 38 degree iron and adding a small secondary bevel for an included angle of about 55 degrees. When I get the smoother I think I'll just get the 50 degree iron and return the 38 back to where it started. Boy does the BU jointer work well for me though.

Given my success swapping different BU irons in the jointer, rather than acquiring a better rabbet, I thought I'd try ordering a second iron from LV for the large shoulder plane and just hone it up to 55 or even 60 degrees. Then I could use the first low angle iron for shoulders/end grain, and the high angle for rabbets and difficult wood with the grain. It would beat spending the money on a second dedicated plane. FWIW I love the LV shoulder plane and I think it would work well for me in a high angle configuration.

Has anyone else tried this with a LA shoulder plane? Before I spend the money and time on a second iron it I thought I'd see if I'm missing some obvious reason why this is a really bad idea. The HNT gordon rabbets are set up at 60 degrees, so there's some precident for high angle rabbets, but as a newbie I'd appreciate any thoughts or advice here. Thanks!


PS Note to LV: it would be great if you could figure out how to machine the BU jointer sides to accomodate both the fence and flat, smooth, and square to allow using it on a shooting board. Just a thought.

[Robert Rozaieski]

It sounds like you are talking about cleaning up inside the joint? Is it a surface that will be visible after assembly? If it's inside the joint and won't be visible after assembly, a little tearout shouldn't matter. Why not just try the shoulder plane you have as is?

[Chris Friesen]

Second Robert's comments. If it's not a visible surface or edge, a little tearout doesn't matter.

If it is visible, I think your idea would make sense...although you could also just put a tiny high-angle microbevel on your existing iron for this project then grind it off later. Depends if you think you'll need the high angle again.

As for the low blade on the BU jointer, you can just put a high-angle secondary bevel on it and it'll work just fine. The only real point of the 38 and 55 degree irons is to make it easier to hone without a jig.

As for using the BU jointer with a shooting board...that's a lot of sidewall to machine flat and square to the sole. The BU jack does however work great with a shooting board...though I dream of a Lie Nielsen #9.

[Kent A Bathurst]

........ clean up a rabbet with the grain in birdseye maple for a critical glued joint..........

Not sure how much "clean up" you are talking about, but what about a card scraper with a sharp 90* corner? Just a thought - that'd be my first try (assuming I understand the issue correclty).

[Robert Rozaieski]

PS Note to LV: it would be great if you could figure out how to machine the BU jointer sides to accomodate both the fence and flat, smooth, and square to allow using it on a shooting board. Just a thought.

Just saw this part. the plane sole doesn't need to be square to the side in order to use it on a shooting board. You just need to adjust the iron square to the surface of the shooting board via the lateral adjustment. The angle of the plane side to the sole is irrelevant.

[John Schroeder]

I gave it a whirl with the LA shoulder on another piece of BE maple and it was rough going. I think I'll try the suggestion to put a small secondary bevel on it, which I can easily hone out afterwards. Thanks for the ideas.

FYI the rabbet doesn't show, but you can see some tear out left by the router along the outside edge - small but annoying. The rabbet is a big one on the back of a carcass and I'm gluing in a frame and panel back. The Since it's long grain to long grain, I thought it would be great if I could get the same quality fit and finish that I do with the BU jointer for glue ups: perfectly flat and smooth as glass. Slip the panel in, clamp it up, and the rabbeted edges and the frame should be as strong and stable as a single board.

Overkill? Probably, but it's for my daughter and I'd love her to pass it on to her children. I even switched to Unibond for gluing the cross grain joints after reading Bob Smalser's article on making your glue joints repairable. :D I don't mind the extra time and I'm learning a lot along the way.

As for using the jointer with a shooting board, have a look at the BU jack versus the side of the jointer in the attached pic, as they are very different. The small, narrow smooth track on the jointer side is proud of the rest of the side and makes it unstable. I think LV did it to mate with the fence, but since the smoother is also finished this way perhaps it was to promote the BU Jack for shooting. I figured as long as I'm asking for flat and smooth sides on the jointer I'd throw in square for good measure.

[Chris Friesen]

As for using the jointer with a shooting board, have a look at the BU jack versus the side of the jointer in the attached pic, as they are very different. The small, narrow smooth track on the jointer side is proud of the rest of the side and makes it unstable. I think LV did it to mate with the fence, but since the smoother is also finished this way perhaps it was to promote the BU Jack for shooting.

I know that there are people that use bevel-down jointers with shooting boards, but if you've got your bench up against a wall then I suspect a jointer might be too long to use effectively...you might end up bashing the nose into the wall. The jack is a bit more manageable.

Of course, if you've got the jointer and would like to shoot with it, this rationale doesn't help much.

[Jim Koepke]

FYI the rabbet doesn't show, but you can see some tear out left by the router along the outside edge - small but annoying. The rabbet is a big one on the back of a carcass and I'm gluing in a frame and panel back. The Since it's long grain to long grain, I thought it would be great if I could get the same quality fit and finish that I do with the BU jointer for glue ups: perfectly flat and smooth as glass. Slip the panel in, clamp it up, and the rabbeted edges and the frame should be as strong and stable as a single board.

Not sure if I have this properly visualized...

There are a few ways to "hide the joint" in a project like this.

Can the edge be beaded or chamfered?

Is it possible a side rabbet plane could clean up the edge?

Is it possible to post an image of the project? It is much easier to come up with solutions when working with a clear idea of what needs attention.

jim