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Cassondra Bennett
12-02-2009, 7:58 PM
The manual for the Radius 25 watt I just bought says it needs 400 CFM and 6" of pressure

I found these at Harbor Freight will either of them work? or am I totally in the wrong ball park????

$129.99 - 13 gallons; Motor: 110V, 7 amp, 1 HP; Air flow: 660 CFM

$99.99 - 12 gallon 120V, 6.8 amps, 750 watts; 1 HP; 914 CFM

Amps....HP and CFM?????? HELP????
its all so confusing!!


My plan is to house the exhaust unit outside the building with a switch that can be turned on from inside to cut down on the noise.


Thanks in advance
Cassondra

Dmitriy Kumets
12-02-2009, 8:36 PM
We have the $129 one and it works great. It's actually not too loud either but given the choice I would have it outside the room. (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=31810)

CFM = cubic feet per minute (how much air is moved). You don't want the smoke lingering inside your machine hence there is a minimum requirement. HF doesn't say how the blower acts under higher pressure load but if you are running a long vent expect it to drop.

Amps = electrical draw. 7 amp is pretty good (won't blow your circuit)


The manual for the Radius 25 watt I just bought says it needs 400 CFM and 6" of pressure

I found these at Harbor Freight will either of them work? or am I totally in the wrong ball park????

$129.99 - 13 gallons; Motor: 110V, 7 amp, 1 HP; Air flow: 660 CFM

$99.99 - 12 gallon 120V, 6.8 amps, 750 watts; 1 HP; 914 CFM

Amps....HP and CFM?????? HELP????
its all so confusing!!


My plan is to house the exhaust unit outside the building with a switch that can be turned on from inside to cut down on the noise.


Thanks in advance
Cassondra

donald bugansky
12-02-2009, 9:11 PM
I originally ordered the unit from Harbor Freight ($129) but found the sound/noise to be unacceptable. I had the unit in the attic of the shop and it had a high pitch sound that drove me crazy in about an hour.

I then ordered a different unit from Penn State Industries and have been very pleased. Lot's of power, !.5Hp versus 1HP - works great!

1.5HP DC3 Portable Dust Collector Motor Blower (no bag or hose)
Item #: DC3XX $229.95 850-CFM

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/DC3XX.html?mybuyscid=6133179899

Hope this helps.

Dan Hintz
12-02-2009, 9:51 PM
The "red" unit is cheaper and can be speed-controlled with a $25 router speed controller, but it's noisy. The "green" unit is quieter, but its speed cannot be controlled in the same way and it's slightly more expensive (about $10).

Cassondra Bennett
12-03-2009, 10:18 AM
Thanks everyone for your input!! I appreciate it so much! I have taken on this endeavor pretty much alone and in the dark .....it has been pretty overwhelming so your help is priceless!!!!

I am off to order a dust collector!!:):):)

Cassondra

David Fairfield
12-03-2009, 12:03 PM
You're never alone with your laser if you have the Creek

... or mice :D

Dave

Peter Meacham
12-03-2009, 11:14 PM
Cassondra

I have to agree with the comments about the HF dust collectors - especially the red one - very, very noisy.

I got rid of that HF unit and got a Penn State - the unit mentioned above, and I am very happy - much quieter.

Pete

Cassondra Bennett
12-07-2009, 10:59 AM
Went to Harbor Freight and they had both dust collectors so I asked the guy.......he was about 15 if I could plug them in and hear both of them and he said "No we can't do that".....:confused: What????????

After about 20 minutes the manager finally decided it would be easier to let me hear them both then to continue listening to me make noise and question why he wanted me to spend my hard earned money on something I couldn't even make sure was going to work for me:)

The red one was AWFUL!!! it was so loud!! so I ended up getting the green one and the best part was it was on sale for $99.00
Wooooo Hoooooo!!!!

So I guess the morale of this story is sometimes noise is good and sometimes its not!!

Thanks again everyone for the input I am just about ready to get this thing going!!!

Dan Hintz
12-07-2009, 11:09 AM
I chose the red so I could easily reduce the speed when working with lighter materials (e.g., paper). I rarely run it at full tilt, anyway, so noise isn't much of an issue. I think I paid $90 before coupons and such. I remember the green one being either $100 or $110 normally, but there's planty of 10% off coupons if you Google (or place one web order and they'll never stop sending you flyers with coupons every 2-3 weeks!).

Jeff Saltzman
09-15-2010, 7:11 PM
Huh, HF lists the sound level for the red one ("107-112 at 3ft"?!) but not for the green one. I'll see if they'll let me plug them in before buying; too bad the 1.5hp Penn State ones won't be in stock for another month. Or, are there other sources for similarly nice blowers? HF has the green one in stock not far from me...

Dan Hintz
09-15-2010, 7:39 PM
The green one will definitely be quieter (it's an induction motor, not a brush type like he red one), but I cannot say by how much. I would hazard a guess it is in the mid-80's as similar motors are rated.

Jeff Saltzman
09-15-2010, 7:45 PM
I think I'll just go for it, not many other affordable options out there!

Finding carbon is trickier than I thought though, sure enough the grow stores charge outrageous prices... might just order from General Carbon.

Robert Walters
09-15-2010, 9:58 PM
the manager finally decided it would be easier to let me hear them both then to continue listening to me make noise


Hi Cassondra,

He probably knew that there was no way that you could be louder than the dust collectors! LOL

(Sorry, I just couldn't resist that one)

Robert Walters
09-15-2010, 10:02 PM
I then ordered a different unit from Penn State Industries and have been very pleased. Lot's of power, !.5Hp versus 1HP - works great!

1.5HP DC3 Portable Dust Collector Motor Blower (no bag or hose)
Item #: DC3XX $229.95 850-CFM

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/DC3XX.html?mybuyscid=6133179899


Folks,

Just realize that while the PennState is quieter, it specs say that it needs 16 Amps, and that most circuits are rated for 15A, some 20A.

Either way, you are looking at a dedicated circuit for the dust collector alone.
Just make sure you have the available circuit or you'll be resetting the circuit breaker all the time, which is not a good thing.

Bren Kano
09-15-2010, 11:40 PM
The HF and PSI impeller housing of these two units look very similar...

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/DC660P.html

http://www.harborfreight.com/13-gallon-industrial-portable-dust-collector-31810.html

Dan Hintz
09-16-2010, 6:41 AM
Folks,

Just realize that while the PennState is quieter, it specs say that it needs 16 Amps, and that most circuits are rated for 15A, some 20A.

Either way, you are looking at a dedicated circuit for the dust collector alone.
Just make sure you have the available circuit or you'll be resetting the circuit breaker all the time, which is not a good thing.
Robert,

The DC you linked to is 1.5HP, or <10A... it will be fine on a standard 15A breaker. The 2HP units are best run off of a 20A breaker, which is standard in new homes.

Robert Walters
09-16-2010, 5:14 PM
Robert,

The DC you linked to is 1.5HP, or <10A... it will be fine on a standard 15A breaker. The 2HP units are best run off of a 20A breaker, which is standard in new homes.


Well, someone else linked to it:
http://www.pennstateind.com/store/DC3XX.html?mybuyscid=6133179899

If you click on the SPECIFICATIONS tab, it shows 16A@110VAC

But since it's a 110/220 motor, that would also be 8A@220VAC I'm guessing.

Dan Hintz
09-16-2010, 8:59 PM
Doesn't make sense... 1.5HP @ 120V is 9.3A.

Robert Walters
09-17-2010, 12:39 AM
Doesn't make sense... 1.5HP @ 120V is 9.3A.

Yeah I know. Isn't that the one you were looking at getting too?
Maybe you can verify with them before ordering it.

Double the power consumption for half the noise?
Maybe it's a high torque motor or something *shrug*.

Dan Hintz
09-17-2010, 6:24 AM
Actually, mine came in yesterday, the DC2000B (though I'm replacing the bag with a Wynn nano filter).

The nameplate lists it at 9A @ 220V (or 18A @ 110V). That puts it at 2.65HP, but it's advertised as a 2HP unit... that all washes out for me in the end.

EDIT: Oh, I'll also add... this thing is freakin' HEAVY!!! I had no idea it would be this big. The motor alone has got to be 60 pounds or more.

Robert Walters
09-17-2010, 8:42 AM
Actually, mine came in yesterday, the DC2000B (though I'm replacing the bag with a Wynn nano filter).

The nameplate lists it at 9A @ 220V (or 18A @ 110V). That puts it at 2.65HP, but it's advertised as a 2HP unit... that all washes out for me in the end.

EDIT: Oh, I'll also add... this thing is freakin' HEAVY!!! I had no idea it would be this big. The motor alone has got to be 60 pounds or more.

Just curious...
Are the blades on the DC2000B the same design/size/spacing (proportionally) as the Red HF DC?

Just trying to determine what makes for a "quiet" dust collector.


Just think of it like this...
Get a second one and a pipe and you can do bench presses :D

Dan Hintz
09-17-2010, 11:26 AM
If I remember, I'll look at them when I get home this evening (though I have a client coming over, so it may not happen).

I know the PSI spins around 3,800 rpm, but I can't say offhand what speed the HF unit runs at... one way to cut down on noise is to spin more slowly. I doubt they've put a ton of research into making a superb blade design (either company).

Gary Liberman
09-17-2010, 3:22 PM
We ordered a Universal Laser, model VersaLaser 4.60 (60 W). It says I need 250 CFM and 6Žof pressure. We want to install it on the roof (its a shop on a second floor), so I wanted to know what would you recommend me?

Dan Hintz
09-17-2010, 3:44 PM
Gary,

If all you're running is the laser and you don't care about noise, the el-cheapo Harbor Freight red unit is perfectly fine... if you want something a little quieter, "upgrade" to their green unit.

James Terry
09-17-2010, 7:45 PM
Folks,

Just realize that while the PennState is quieter, it specs say that it needs 16 Amps, and that most circuits are rated for 15A, some 20A.

Either way, you are looking at a dedicated circuit for the dust collector alone.
Just make sure you have the available circuit or you'll be resetting the circuit breaker all the time, which is not a good thing.

I just ran my Penn State 1.5hp on the kill-a-watt and it read 6.5A at 120V while loaded in my standard exhaust pipe configuration. It certainly will surge a bit while starting but not too bad. I run everything I have off a single 15A breaker. I start the blower, the air assist then hit go on the job.

I dont think there is anything quieter than the Penn State unit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBAKFx9QDcg

Gary Liberman
09-22-2010, 11:17 PM
Hello, we just ordered a Universal Laser, VersaLaser 4.60 60 Watt engraver, and it says we need an exhaust with 250 CFM 6' pressure, what do you recommend us? Do you have this kind of machine?

Pete Bejmuk
09-23-2010, 1:42 AM
can't you just get the quieter machine and regulate the air speed yourself with a blast gate? isn't have a blast gate (or two) in your exhaust system generally a good idea anyway?

Dan Hintz
09-23-2010, 6:38 AM
Gary,

If you want the cheap (but loud) route, pick up a red dust collector from Harbor Freight. If you want something a little quieter, get the green one.

Mike Null
09-23-2010, 9:55 AM
If you're going to have to live next to the blower while you're operating the machine then sound is a critical issue. Consider using an in-line blower which, while more expensive, can be much quieter. I've used mine on two machines with zero problems for 12 years and can talk on the phone within arms reach of the blower.

Joe De Medeiros
09-23-2010, 10:03 AM
Gary,

If you want the cheap (but loud) route, pick up a red dust collector from Harbor Freight. If you want something a little quieter, get the green one.

I have the green one, and it's not bad, you can have a conversation near it, but I find with loud machinery it tires you out from the loud blast of noise.

Gary Liberman
09-23-2010, 1:10 PM
Hi everyone, thank you for all your help, I hope we start engraving next month so we will be posting our progress wuith the machine. About the exhaust, do you mean this "green" one: http://www.harborfreight.com/13-gallon-industrial-portable-dust-collector-31810.html

Thank you!

Dan Hintz
09-23-2010, 2:07 PM
Yep.......

Jeff Saltzman
09-23-2010, 2:24 PM
Great thread, so helpful!

I got the green Harbor Freight unit and was surprised at how quiet it is.

However, it does vibrate a fair amount, and it's bugging the neighbors downstairs :o

I put ~4" of foam underneath it but it's still an issue-- the vibration transmits through the foam and turns into a droning hum for my (so far very patient!) neighbors.

I wonder if anybody has a similar issue and has figured out how not to transmit vibration through the floor.

Replacing the Harbor Freight blower with the Penn State DC3 is in the cards, and that should help somewhat, but any ideas would be most appreciated!

Robert Walters
09-23-2010, 2:56 PM
I wonder if anybody has a similar issue and has figured out how not to transmit vibration through the floor.

Replacing the Harbor Freight blower with the Penn State DC3 is in the cards, and that should help somewhat, but any ideas would be most appreciated!

Perhaps Isolation Mounts
http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00vezTtEVBIfbP/Isolation-Mounts-Anti-Vibration-Shock-Preventing-Buffer.jpg


I'd love it if someone that had both the HF Red and the PennState
Dust Collector to take a short video comparing them both for sound levels.

But we won't mention any names now, will we Dan. :rolleyes:

Dan Hintz
09-23-2010, 9:15 PM
With me tearing down half of the basement right now, I haven't had an opportunity to run 220V for the new collector. Once I have that, I can run some comparatives... but I have no doubt whatsoever the difference between sound levels.

Russell Ludwick
09-24-2010, 7:55 PM
Hey Guys, I just bought a laser engraver (trotec speedy II 29inx17in) and I need an exhaust blower. I will duct it out a window

I have been told that i need to move about 300-700 cfm. I have just a normal 110V outlet and it will be in the room with me, so being quiet is important.

Can someone tell me what is the best exhaust blower for my needs? I have a budget of max 300 dollars, preferably under 200 unless it is significantly better

If I built a little box with dampeners, could I reduce the noise at all?

Dan Hintz
09-25-2010, 6:08 PM
Russell,

Read this thread from the beginning... I've already posted the useful info.

Russell Ludwick
09-25-2010, 6:31 PM
Dan, you think that this has a Sound rating in the 80's?

http://www.harborfreight.com/13-gallon-industrial-portable-dust-collector-31810.html

Is this model better and quieter though? It has a Sound Rating db: 62db. Is it worth the extra 70 dollars?

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/DC660P.html?green=8792544720

Mike, can you link an inline blower that would work? How good does an inline blower compare to these dust collectors in function?

just searching inline blowers I found this

http://www.abesofmaine.com/item.do?item=BODHG6015DUC&id=BODHG6015DUC&l=FROOGLE

not sure if it is what you are talking about though.

Robert Walters
09-25-2010, 8:06 PM
No HVAC or Hydroponic blower/fan that runs on 120VAC that I was able to find has more than 1.75" of static pressure, and that was by reducing the CFM rate very low.

I went with the red HF dust collector because you can vary the motor speed a bit. Others say the green HF DC is quieter. And the PennState dramatically less.

Robert Walters
09-25-2010, 8:08 PM
If I built a little box with dampeners, could I reduce the noise at all?

I'll tell you in about a week or so =)

Dan Hintz
09-25-2010, 8:12 PM
When you consider a drop of 10 dB is equivalent to a halving of the perceived noise level, moving from something in the mid-80's to something in the mid-60's is significant. That said, something in the mid-80s would probably best be described as annoying to listen to all day, whereas my Harbor Freight 100+ dB unit is looked upon by OSHA as a hearing hazard after only a few minutes ;)

Russell Ludwick
09-25-2010, 8:50 PM
When you consider a drop of 10 dB is equivalent to a halving of the perceived noise level, moving from something in the mid-80's to something in the mid-60's is significant. That said, something in the mid-80s would probably best be described as annoying to listen to all day, whereas my Harbor Freight 100+ dB unit is looked upon by OSHA as a hearing hazard after only a few minutes ;)

Hah... With that said, I think I am going to go with the penn state economy collector

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/DC660P.html?green=8792544720

This seems to be the lowest sound level I can find in my price range. Can I add a speed controller to this one? If so, how would I go about adding it?

Also, It says its not for ductwork, but I was planning on running a hose out the window to the open air. Can I do that, or should I stick with the bag or an Aftermarket Filter

Mike Null
09-25-2010, 10:05 PM
I'd check Grainger for inline blowers. As I recall, that's where I bought mine.

Dan Hintz
09-26-2010, 9:36 AM
Russell,

The quieter units are induction motors, and you'd need a VFD to control their speed... only the cheap brush units can be controlled with a cheap router speed controller.

David Ford
10-13-2010, 3:43 PM
Does anyone here have experience and/or opinions with/on the following exhaust fans?

6", 52Dba, 450cfm, 120V/0.97A, $215 shipped w/filter, $100 w/o filter
http://cgi.ebay.com/6-CARBON-FILTER-FAN-COMBO-inline-odor-control-scrubber-/150504281675?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item230ac1164b

4", 47Dba, 200cfm, 120V/0.90A, $145 shipped w/filter, $93 w/o filter
http://cgi.ebay.com/4-INLINE-FAN-CARBON-FILTER-COMBO-ODOR-CONTROL-SCRUBBER-/390251799797?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5adcd1e4f5

I am considering one of these as an alternative to the Harbour Freight / Penn units discussed and would love some input/opinions. My shop set-up will be as follows:

- ~750sq'
- walkout basement level of a 4-storey building with restaurant, offices, and residential
- 2 rooms, machine in one, office/showroom in another, slider door to separate the two, door will be foam sealed for sound on 3 sides but not at the floor
- both rooms heat controlled individually
- well insulated, minimal heating costs
- cold winters (3000' elevation, BC, Canada)

If I go with outdoor venting I have a ~35' horizontal ducting run with one 45deg bend. The only vent location would be south facing with other tenant windows above therefore thermal updraft of fumes/odours is my concern.

If I go with indoor + filter I have no limits on blower/duct configuration but am unsure of the strength of filter trap. Fumes/odours for either myself or other tenants would be a concern, especially if lasering acrylic.

My gut (aka limited knowledge) says I should go with the 6" non-filtered, outdoor vent, plus a speed controller. What sayeth the Creek?

Robert Walters
10-13-2010, 4:29 PM
Does anyone here have experience and/or opinions with/on the following exhaust fans?

6", 52Dba, 450cfm, 120V/0.97A, $215 shipped w/filter, $100 w/o filter
4", 47Dba, 200cfm, 120V/0.90A, $145 shipped w/filter, $93 w/o filter

I am considering one of these as an alternative to the Harbour Freight / Penn units discussed and would love some input/opinions. My shop set-up will be as follows:

- ~750sq'
- walkout basement level of a 4-storey building with restaurant, offices, and residential
- 2 rooms, machine in one, office/showroom in another, slider door to separate the two, door will be foam sealed for sound on 3 sides but not at the floor
- both rooms heat controlled individually
- well insulated, minimal heating costs
- cold winters (3000' elevation, BC, Canada)

If I go with outdoor venting I have a ~35' horizontal ducting run with one 45deg bend. The only vent location would be south facing with other tenant windows above therefore thermal updraft of fumes/odours is my concern.

If I go with indoor + filter I have no limits on blower/duct configuration but am unsure of the strength of filter trap. Fumes/odours for either myself or other tenants would be a concern, especially if lasering acrylic.

My gut (aka limited knowledge) says I should go with the 6" non-filtered, outdoor vent, plus a speed controller. What sayeth the Creek?

Those type of fans do NOT have the Static Pressure most laser engravers require. Believe me, I already checked by calling the factories that make them.

David Ford
10-13-2010, 5:14 PM
Those type of fans do NOT have the Static Pressure most laser engravers require. Believe me, I already checked by calling the factories that make them.

Just to clarify, my machine is a large format "pool table" style http://www.axyz.com/sys/laser/l20/index.html not the smaller enclosed cabinet style. Does this impact the pressure requirements?

Robert Walters
10-13-2010, 7:16 PM
Just to clarify, my machine is a large format "pool table" style http://www.axyz.com/sys/laser/l20/index.html not the smaller enclosed cabinet style. Does this impact the pressure requirements?

I took a quick look at the link you provided.

While I couldn't see how the exhaust is connected nor how it's plumbed on the machine itself, you did mention having more than 35 foot run of ducting plus at least one bend.

I would still use a dust collector and not those fans. You'll have a lot of loss over that long run of yours.

There will be less surface resistance if you use 6" as much as possible compared to 4".

Dan Hintz
10-13-2010, 8:20 PM
The first one is gone, and the second one isn't very powerful at all... it bottoms out at 2" of pressure. You want something that pulls 4-6" of water at 6-800 CFM.

Russell Ludwick
10-14-2010, 1:31 AM
I just wanted to put in a review of the exhaust system I just bought. The 1 hp blower is actually very powerful and much quieter than I was expecting. I wired an electrical switch to the wall to turn it on and off. It cost a little more than the harbor freight one, but for me, sound was an issue and this was one of the quieter ones I could find.

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/DC660P.html

I bought that and the Harbor freight accessory kit

http://www.harborfreight.com/dust-collector-accessory-kit-93601.html

the kit comes with two 4" tubes, 8 hose clamps and a bunch of other woodworking stuff I didn't use. The tubes are a little longer than I was hoping, but the blower's 660 cfm's makes up for the extra losses from the long tubes, I haven't tested it on a heavy load though and I may find that I need to cut them shorter.

Overall, both have been perfect for me. Ill keep everyone up to date on them as I begin using my laser more.