Waterstones and sharpening

[Matt Allan]

I asked a few weeks ago on advice for a nice set of chisels to get with some reward points I had with a company, I have deiced not to spend it on a nice set of chisels just yet. Instead I would like to order everything I need to practice sharpening a cheapo set I have. I see Lee valley has a few waterstone kits available and would like some advice on the best option to get everything I would need.

I see they have a professional kit with everything:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?SID=&ccurrency=2&page=32970&category=1,43072,45936

and a basic

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?SID=&ccurrency=2&page=32968&category=1,43072,45936

As of now, I know very little about using waterstones.. So any websites/articles that are good would be very helpful as well

Any advice on these sets or anything else would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[Tom LaRussa]

I asked a few weeks ago on advice for a nice set of chisels to get with some reward points I had with a company, I have deiced not to spend it on a nice set of chisels just yet. Instead I would like to order everything I need to practice sharpening a cheapo set I have.

Matt,

I think that's an excellent idea. Here is everything I use:

Honing Guide: $6.95
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=EE-HG-800-1800&Category_Code=THG

3M Microabrasives 5-grit starter pack: $8.32
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=ST-MAF.XX&Category_Code=THS

I took a piece of each abrasive grit and stuck them down to a long scrap of plywood which has laminate on it. I do my sharpening at night in front of the TV. Start with the 40 micron, then the 15, then the 5, the .5, and the .3. Do the main bevel first, alternating with the back, until they are both nice and polished. (This is assuming the back is already flat -- if not, spend some extra time on that first with the 40 micron or a belt sander, depending on how much material needs to be removed.)

Once you have the main bevel done, you just move the blade 1/2" in on the clamp/honing guide thingie and do the secondary bevel the same way. When you're done the metal literally looks like a mirror and it really is scary sharp!

My instructions may or may not make sense, so you can look at my source, which does make sense. It is issue #2 of the new Woodworking Magazine. It's by far the best article on sharpening I've ever seen. You can get it online for $7 at http://www.woodworking-magazine.com/

Even if you decide to go one of the more complicated routes in the future, it can't hurt to try Scary Sharp first. After all, if you buy all the stuff I just listed it will cost you less than $30, including shipping, and unless you have the manual dexterity of a concert pianist you'll need the honing guide pretty much regardless, plus the sharpening article will work just as well for water stones.

BTW, I have a cheaper source for 3M microabrasives, but I can't find the link right now. When I find it I'll post it. (They don't sell honing guides anyway.)

HTH,

Tom

[Alan Turner]

My counsel on jigs would lead you away from the Lee Valley jig. I have it, and have found that it is not effective on many tools because they are too short. Plus, repeatability for setting is a problem. I prefer the eclipse, of which the site above is a fine copy. Make a wood measuring set up stick, takes about one minute, and just keep it, as it is quite accurate.
And, for shorter tools, and odd shaped ones, I have found that the stanley, sold by Garrett Wade as a spokeshave jig, is good also. Will do shorter chisels, spokeshave irons, etc.
As to the stones, I would go with the scary sharp till you decide what you want to do, and then move to the Shaptons. I used to have the stone pond set, but they were so soft that flattening was an everytime task, so I sold it. The shaptons still need to be flattened, but less frequently. You will need a piece of stone, such as granite, very flat, and a bit of abrasive powder.
Well, those are my opinions, but others will surely disagree. Few subjects are so hotly debated. You need to get comfortable with what you are doing, and then just do it till you find your comfort zone.
Alan

[Bob Smalser]

Your choice, but I don't like water stones...read this discussion among boatbuilders, with half a dozen professionals participating...pro boatbuilders use hand tools much more than pro cabinetmakers these days:

moderator deleted direct link to another public forum - violates SMC Terms of Service.

At the rate I use them, flattening those stones a couple times a year is another small pain I don't need in my life.

Here's my recommendation for your lifetime...and sandpaper/glass until you can afford them, if that's an issue:

http://www.hallsproedge.com/wide_bench_stones.htm#5

[Paul Comi]

Matt, I'm in the same boat as you and just picked up a 4 pc marples and ordered the 1/8" one online from Amazon.com. I haven't even opened the packaging yet I've been so busy but I need to decide on a strategy for sharpening so let me know how it goes for you. Scary Sharp, wet stones, ??? Every choice seems to be kind of expensive to just give a try.

[Matt Allan]

Matt, I'm in the same boat as you and just picked up a 4 pc marples and ordered the 1/8" one online from Amazon.com. I haven't even opened the packaging yet I've been so busy but I need to decide on a strategy for sharpening so let me know how it goes for you. Scary Sharp, wet stones, ??? Every choice seems to be kind of expensive to just give a try.
After some more research, I think I am going to try the scary sharp method over any stones to begin with. Since I already have most of the higher grits around from nonwoodworking projects it really won't cost me much to give a shot. Buy or find some glass, that is about it and get some of the lower grits.

Thanks for all the replies.

[Bob Smalser]

For using wet-or-dry paper to sharpen, don't buy into that expensive "float glass" myth, either....

...modern heavy plate glass is just as accurate.

Always beware of somebody trying to sell you on something...take it all in and decide for yourself.



I'm not selling stones or criticizing anybody....tis the trendiness that I'm commenting on...

...until the great craft revival of the '60's, tradesmen used sand stone pedal wheels, composite bench stones and upgraded to natural novaculite bench stones when they eventually could afford them...they were very, very expensive...

...then somebody "discovered" that the Japanese used water stones on their fine blades...there's no novaculite in Japan....the stone manufacturers and importers cackled with glee and everybody switched....

...much later, somebody "discovered" that impoverished tradesmen going back to the 1930's used sandpaper on glass to sharpen....3M cackled with glee....and many switched.

Now it's expensive diamond paste and indexing plates....because the newer A2 steel prestige tools are harder to sharpen, and waterstones and abrasive paper work fine but are troublesome to flatten or replace. Just wait til those spendy plates wear thru from the harder diamonds for the next iteration of spending...

It's all kinda self-perpetuating, because the buyers of prestige hand tools or many of Norm's needless gizmos spent so much money, that human nature is such that they try to convince others that everybody needs a 300-dollar, low-angle jack plane (the originals very rare because they were made to plane endgrain butcher blocks exclusively), or a 250-dollar A2 chisel set and diamond paste. Kinda a perverse, reverse form of buyer's remorse.

Consumerism at its finest.

[Matt Allan]

For using wet-or-dry paper to sharpen, don't buy into that expensive "float glass" myth, either....

...modern heavy plate glass is just as accurate.

Always beware of somebody trying to sell you on something...take it all in and decide for yourself.
I am hoping to just find some pieces laying around. I know I have some.. some place. I am sure some of my friends will have some laying around collecting dust if I can't find any. They will all be surely flat enough for my needs.

Thanks

[Michael Cody]

I am hoping to just find some pieces laying around. I know I have some.. some place. I am sure some of my friends will have some laying around collecting dust if I can't find any. They will all be surely flat enough for my needs.


Matt -- buy a piece of smooth marble tile from the local borg store ... cheap and very flat. Not Granite reference stone flat, but pretty good. Also don't worry 'bout overkill on flattening, etc... you don't need the backs flat to 1/4 wavelength of cadmium light :) like some folks insist ... get it reasonably flat, using a sharpy to paint the back until it all removes with few flattening strokes. Also concentrate on the first 1" or 2" behind the edge, the rest of the blade is not a big deal ... get a piece of MDF and spread some green Lee Valley chromate honing compound on it. Use this to touch up edges in between sharpening and go at it.. that way you don't have to grind, sharpen as often though with scary sharp a piece of 1500 grit does a fine job touching up edges.