Sliding dovetails (?)

[Richard Magbanua]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2708/4152410602_f7b013d023_o.jpg

I've been working on a six drawer dresser and have been trying to accomplish most of the joinery by hand with hand tools. I decided to join the drawer dividers (3/4" x 3" stock) to the case sides with sliding dovetails. I'm not really sure what the correct name of this joint would be. I call it a stopped sliding dovetail, kinda like a stopped dado. I'v heard all sorts of different names so far. Does anyone know what the correct term is?

Anyways, cutting this joint by hand is a bit different than a plain sliding dovetail so I had to come up with a way that worked for me unless I wanted to use an electric router :eek:
I think I came up with something that works well for me and wanted to share my little tutorial. I'm sure there are other ways and would definitely like to know what they are.

Tutorial:
http://richardmagbanua.blogspot.com/

Happy neandering! :)

[David Gendron]

Nice post on your blog there Richard! Look realy good. As for the right term, I read some where stoped sliding DT so I guess it would good to use that term!

[Eric Brown]

I just got done doing stopped sliding dovetails with handtools same as you except mine were 18" long. Things I did different:

At the stopped end I cut an opening with a mortice chisel for saw blade clearance. (I have western saws)

I used a long angle block to guide the saw.

I used tape on my scraper blade as a depth checker.

For the long male dovetails I used a 90 degree board and cut down to the shoulder (about 1/8"). I then used the long angled guide and my shoulder plane to form most of the bevel. This left just a tiny corner at the bottom which i used a side rabbet plane to finish.

I made the dovetail thinner at the stopped end. This kept the dovetail loose (easier to put together) until it reached final position

Like you I used a router to clean up the female dovetail. Actually I used two routers. The first one was used to remove the waste and was adjusted about a 1/16" at a time. The second one was set for final depth and not adjusted.

Eric

[Richard Magbanua]

Thanks David.

Eric, 18" seems like much more work than my 3". I did use a relief hole in my preliminary experiments. I tried a mortised hole like you as well as a hole drilled with a forstner bit. It seemed to work pretty well but I was slow at it. I like the idea of using the shoulder plane for the dovetails. I may have to try that, especially when I make a sliding dovetail of any significant length. And creating a taper along the dovetail is definitely an easy affair with these methods. I'd really like to try using two router planes because that would entail me getting another router plane :rolleyes:

Thanks for checking this out!

[Alan Zenreich]

Richard, is your twitter feed available? The link on your blog is not working.

[Robert Rozaieski]

Very nice job Richard, and a nice blog you have as well!

The trick to how these were done historically is that the full width of the drawer blade was not dovetailed. Instead, the blade was burried in a shallow through dado in the case side (or sometimes the dado was omitted), the drawer blade was notched and only the front 1" or so of the blade (where it was important for the stength of the case) was dovetailed. This makes it easy, and more importantly at the time fast, to just saw and pare the dovetail at the front 1" of the case to a good fit with a chisel rather than having to fit one the entire length of the drawer blade or case side. It then becomes just like doing a half blind dovetail for a drawer front, just with different grain orientation. Here's a crude drawing that might help visualize this.

134127

I find this much faster and easier to do than a full length sliding dovetail. YMMV.

[Richard Magbanua]

Alan, Thanks for the heads up. I think I got it working for now; I just added a link.

Robert,
Now you tell me!:p Thanks for the info. I may just try this sometime. I wonder how this would add/detract from my current design? Something to think about.

[Robert Rozaieski]

You could still do it for the remainder of your drawer blades without anyone knowing any better once it's assembled. Just omit the shallow dado and only do the dovetail. The look will be the same as your full length sliding dovetail. I'm assuming you are mortising drawer runners into the blades? A single screw through the center of the edge of the drawer runner, or a couple of cut nails through the runner and into the case side can hold the drawer runner in place instead of the dado. Once everything is assembled, all you'll see is the dovetail at the front, just like the one you have now.

[Sean Hughto]

Here's how I made some:

http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=40187.12

I was just making it up as I went along, but in the end it worked:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3025/2919943773_bc0979cfe5.jpg

[Sean Hughto]

Oh, btw, I'm told this is typically called a "housed dovetail." FWIW

[Richard Magbanua]

Thanks Robert. I am planning on mortising the drawer supports with a screw to attach it to the middle of the carcass sides. I may seriously consider the through dovetails. Gotta look at it tomorrow an ponder.
Wait... I just remembered. I already cut everything to length. Looks like stopped sliding dovetails for me.

[Richard Magbanua]

Those look great! I've seen those done before and they were referred to as "housed dovetails". I assumed that the "housed" part was because the shoulder was recessed in a dado.
Did you do that with hand tools? I think we need a tutorial on that!!!
Thanks for sharing.

[Sean Hughto]

The link to Knots will take you to a post with two diagrams describing my steps in shaping both parts.

[Robert Rozaieski]

Thanks Robert. I am planning on mortising the drawer supports with a screw to attach it to the middle of the carcass sides. I may seriously consider the through dovetails. Gotta look at it tomorrow an ponder.
Wait... I just remembered. I already cut everything to length. Looks like stopped sliding dovetails for me.

The dovetails aren't through, they're basically like half blinds in a drawer front. They're exactly the same as the ones you did, but only the front 1" or so of the drawer blade is dovetailed instead of the entire thing. The length of the drawer blade would be exactly the same as you already have, except only at the front 1". The rest, behind the dovetail, would be notched to fit between the case sides. Here's a better resolved picture (just pretend the dado isn't there).

http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv260/logancabinetshoppe/DrawerDivider.jpg?t=1259768232

[David Gendron]

Nice work you guys, it come just at the right time, I designing a small cabinet(Krenov style) and I wanted to use housed dovetail!
Thank you!

[Jim Koepke]

The link to Knots will take you to a post with two diagrams describing my steps in shaping both parts.

It takes me to a log-in page.

jim

[Sean Hughto]

ok, let's see if I can attached them here, so you don't have to log in to Knots (it's free btw, if you're ever interested).

[Mark Maleski]

The link to Knots will take you to a post with two diagrams describing my steps in shaping both parts.

Sean, that's great, thanks! I need to do something similar on my next project and have been contemplating my approach. Appreciate you taking the time to create those diagrams.

Mark

[Richard Magbanua]

Ah yes, thanks Sean! That makes it clear. It seems as though it's pretty time consuming, but the appearance is worth it. I will probably work this in a future shelf project. I think this is all great information for woodworkers to be able to refer to. Maybe we should pick a joint of the week and share tutorials and tips. Also, I really wish there were more videos on the 'tube of these cuts being executed. I know I would find it helpful.
Thanks again for all the help!

[Sean Hughto]

As for time consuming, I guess. I'm a hobbiest, so time is not money. Instead, I'm just looking to produce something that pleases me, and maybe my family for a generation or two. Seem like time well spent. No doubt, professionals or the old timers could no doubt knock something like this out pretty quick.

If you bring an electric router into play, it can be faster too. I used a router to plough the blind dt grooves for some shallow shelves in a small tool cabinet I did, and then, hand shaped the tail portions with a saw and chisel. As the joints were not visible, minor cosmetic gaps were not an issue - the joints are still iron even with minor imperfections. Not having to worry about cosmetics sped things up a lot.

By the way, have you guessed how I put these four together? How do you slide the last one in?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2615/3894571163_58527a410f.jpg

There is also the router table or shop-made router jig methods, but I've never personally tried those. The interior panels that are dt'd on the cabinet pictured, are around 20" deep, and even though the dt's are only on the first few inches, it would have been a bear to push them on edge over a router table to form the male portions, I think.

[Richard Magbanua]

By the way, have you guessed how I put these four together? How do you slide the last one in?

From the back? Or, maybe in two pieces. The last one having a square end with a dado'd side and then adding an end cap with the male dovetail on end and a dovetailed socket to receive the adjacent dovetailed end.

Very nice design. I may have to steal that one :rolleyes:

[Rob Fisher]

By the way, have you guessed how I put these four together? How do you slide the last one in?

That's the first thing I thought about. I would guess that you assembled opposite corners into right angle pieces then slide those two composite pieces together. :D

Am I right? Am I? Whadda I win? :p

Rob

[Sean Hughto]

Yeah, the fourth one has to drop into a recess and come into final position from inside its mate. I didn't realize this until I tried to put it together while building that, if you can beleive it, so I'm always curious if it's obvious to others that the fourth corner in this design requires something different or the pieces won't go together.

Steal away. No doubt you can improve the design. It is original, at least. You won't find one at Ethan Allen or at the antique shop (though probably for good reason!).