New Shop Questions

[Keith Avery]

I am having a 30 by 48 pole barn built in about 2 weeks. About half of that space will be a hobby woodshop. I am looking for inputs about what I need to do before the slab is poured. I can't decide for sure about running DC pvc in the slab. I think the only thing I have decided for sure is to run a few small pvc drain lines in case I need a dehumidifier. I know about where I think I want the tablesaw but not much else at this point. Right now I only have a Jet DC-1100 dust collector but will probably upgrade in the future. Another question I have is electric service. I am thinking 100 amps but I have to run wire about 350ft and 4/0 aluminum is expensive. My electrician thinks 60 amp is sufficient but running the numbers if I upgrade machines much and add an AC at some point 60 amps may be pushing it. Just the lighting if I use 75 foot candles will be about 3000 watts. Even 60 amps is going to require 2/0 aluminum. I have talked to 2 master electricians, one said 4 lines and the other said 3 lines and sink 2 grounding rods at barn. I guess I need to talk to the inspector. Any other input about what you wish you had done, but can't now would be greatly appreciated. Plumbing is not supposed to be run to the barn( the zoning people are power happy). Thanks to everyone in advance.

[Gerry Werth]

Definitely bite the bullet and put in the 4/0 for 100 amp service. You won't regret that down the road. I ran 4/0 210 feet to my backyard shop and put in 100A service. My electrical panel is full, and I probably have more circuits than I really need, but I have the capability to switch a few more to 220V if I need with upgrades to jointers or planers. I have 220V circuits for the DC and table saw.
If you haven't thought about where you are going to position your tools, i wouldn't fret too much about under the concrete piping for DC or electric, you can always run your lines from above, unless you want that really clean look. :)

[Chris Damm]

I have a very well equipped wood shop. I have 60 amp service and is more than enough if you are the only one working. The most I run at one time is an electric heater, a 3HP dust colector and a 2HP tablesaw and I have never had a problem.

[Micheal Roth]

Run the 100 amp and be done with it!

[Cliff Holmes]

I can't see putting the DC ducts in the slab. Shop layout is a constant evolution and (at least for me) machine locations change quite a bit. A shift of just a few feet and you find yourself running duct across the floor. Put an extra foot on the walls and run it suspended.

[Sylvain Deschamps]

Keith, I also am very pleased with 60 amps. for a one man shop. The most I can have running at one time is three lines of 4, 8 ft lighting, small window airconditioner, 3 hp 220v DC, and either 220v on the TS or jointer. I find it sufficient for now.
Before pouring, look at all your stations and think of how you will be walking from one to another. What will become eventually a routine must be free of interferance and limitations to future rearanging your layout when you add more machines. I decided that the TS was to be at one only location, even if I upgrade to a panel TS later on. So I put pvc for the DC and wiring in the slab. I can walk all around it. Also my shop is a woodshop, not a garage so I didn't wast money on a central drain. My jointer is now positioned efficiently with 8 ft in and out clearance. I didn't think about this one at the time of pouring and I now regret not having put it's DC pipes and electrical in the slab at is't location. Try to minimise overhead pvc pipes and electrical supply runs if you can. The always get in the way at some time. Also important before pouring, is your main electrical panel location, of course you want it closest to the source for economical reasons, but think about the possibility of having it come in someother place and maybe using that closest spot for something else. I should have put my electric panel on an oposite outside wall, because I now realise that the panel is exactly where my future tub sink should be for best efficiency and usage of this sink. And this said, of course plan putting in all plumbing and water supply at proper location away from the electrical panel.

[Ed Labadie]

100 amp all the way. I used a 150 amp should have went 200.
Get the most slots available in the panel also.
Spend a few extra bucks now, it'll be cheaper in the long run.

People base the panel size on "I'll be the only one working", well it's not so much that as all the "toys" and necessities that you'll need circuts for. When it's all done and you spent the $$$$, the last thing you want to do is plug in a machine every time you want to use it. I've got several I have to do that with, it really stinks. At this point in time I accept it because I wasn't a woodworker when I built the shop, a "gearhead" didn't need lots of electricity.

Ed

[Mike Cruz]

Electric? Run the 100, you won't regret it...run the 60, you certainly may.

As for DC piping in the concrete...what do you do if you get a clog? How do you know just where the clog is? What if you decide to change the shop around later after you've used it a bit and find yourself putting the TS nowhere near the dust port you put in the floor. I, for one, have never undstood that philosophy.

NO WATER TO THE BARN?????? What do your animals drink...beer?

[Kirk Poore]

1. Go with the hundred amp. The heavier wire is fairly cheap right now. It will be worse later.

2. I put a 8" wide & deep trench in my shop floor. It will be used for DC later, but for now it's got the power cords for my tablesaw and planer in it. It's covered by 3/4" plywood, so I can get to any part of it.

Kirk

[Eduard Nemirovsky]

Good idea about tranches in the slab - but still require a lot of planning. I would't put a DC in the slab.
I am in process of final inspection for my ww shed. It is located 130 feet from house. Electrician run a four wires for sub-panel, but inspector still asked for 2 grounding rods. I guess it is depend on what county do you located.
60 vs 100 Amps - really is up to you. I used a 60 Amps panel and I don't see how and why I would need a more power. If I would buy a more tools - I can live with plugging/unplugging the cord. You would need a separate line for DC, separate line for AC, line for the lightening, separate for 230v and 120v.
Ed.

[Von Bickley]

Keith,

In my pole building, I ran a pvc conduit down one of the 4X6 poles and ran it to where my outfeed table for the TS would be. This gives me power to the TS and power for receptacles mounted on my outfeed table. My outfeed table is 4 X 6.6 and also serves as an assembly table.

Can't help you out on your power requirements. I would go at least 100 amps. I have a 400 amp service on my building and it feeds the house also. We had a small living area in the pole building that we lived in while we built the house.

[Matt Meiser]

Definitely put in 100A service and put in the biggest panel you can since 220 circuits eat panel space.

My barn is 30x48. Too small :D I have 30x32 of it for my shop and 16x30 for storage. I'd like to put up a lean to to store all the tractor implements and take 16x10 and build a dedicated finishing room "someday". Then "someday later" put up another barn to park our camper, trailer, the tractor, etc in. and get the other 16x20 for the shop.

Or if I win the lottery (a long shot since I don't play) just put up something maybe 50x100 or so. :D

[John Harden]

Congrats on the shop!!!

Definitely run the 100 amp. What's the price difference? Can't be that much.

I have a 60 amp subpanel and come close to the maximum without an A/C giong. With an A/C, it would likely be too much.

Saw pulls about 15 amps and DC about the same. That's half of my capacity right there, and I'm lucky enough to have the shop lights and other stuff on the main panel and not the sub. Add in the A/C, lights, refrigerator, etc., and you'll be getting close.

I also agree with not running DC pipe underground. Sure, you can fish tape clogs, but its a pain in the rear. If you know for certain where you'll land your table saw, which is often out in the middle, then perhaps. Even then though, are you going to run 4", 5", or 6" main lines? Do you think your needs will ever change?

Pretty easy to pull down and change out ceiling mounted piping. Buried stuff would just be abandoned.

Regards,

John

[Greg Portland]

Run the 100A line. I'm running eight 8" florescent fixtures (2x20A), 30A DC line, & 30A tool line (that's before A/C or heat). Most 3HP cabinet saws require a 30A hookup. If you have a medium size DC @20A then that leaves you with 10A for lighting, radio, coffee maker, etc., etc.

Greg

[George Bregar]

I would run the power and DC out to tools under the slab. As a matter of fact, I will be channeling my shop floor...a converted three car garage... for that very reason. Under slab for both my TS and jointer. Nothing to trip on or to catch a board on. Perfect.

I don't get this "clog" premise. I will have just as much ability to access the pipe as I would above slab.

[Scott T Smith]

My thoughts:

1 - be sure that you have a good vapor barrier underneath the slab, so as to minimize moisture transmittal into the shop and your wood. Many foundation installers like to puncture the barrier so that the water leaves more quickly, thus reducing the time needed until they can finish the slab. Bad idea as far as you're concerned.
2 - If you are in a cold area consider installing radiant heating in the slab.
3 - If your walls are fairly tall (over 12', consider running some conduit underneath the slab to strategic locations in each wall, so as to minimize the length of wiring runs (as well as minimize surface mount conduit).
A floor drain is not a bad idea. Consider where you may want to locate a dehumidifier and place a drain in that vicinity. Also consider placing one near your compressor, to aid in disposal of tank water.
4 - Also if you're in a cold area, consider installing rigid insulation underneath, as well as around the external perimeter of the slab. That will keep things warmer inside, and minimize your heat loss through the slab.

[Rollie Meyers]

Good idea about tranches in the slab - but still require a lot of planning. I would't put a DC in the slab.
I am in process of final inspection for my ww shed. It is located 130 feet from house. Electrician run a four wires for sub-panel, but inspector still asked for 2 grounding rods. I guess it is depend on what county do you located.
60 vs 100 Amps - really is up to you. I used a 60 Amps panel and I don't see how and why I would need a more power. If I would buy a more tools - I can live with plugging/unplugging the cord. You would need a separate line for DC, separate line for AC, line for the lightening, separate for 230v and 120v.
Ed.

Good for the inspector!! The inspector was making the sparky follow code, NEC article 250.56 says 2 are required unless it can be proved that 1 rod has 25 ohms of resistance or less........

[Don Jarvie]

If your not sure where you want to put your saw or DC run a trench or two to the middle of the barn.

Most likely your saw will be somewhere in the middle with some sort of outfeed table or assembly table with it. You can always run the cord to the trench so everything is under the table.

You will also be able to have power to the table. etc.