Table saw input requested: <$1000 budget.

[Michael Drew]

Greetings from Alaska. A few hours with Google reading reviews and searching the net for table saw information brought me here. I had to register to view some pictures, so I figured I might as well be selfish and start my own table saw thread. I have some questions that I was unable to find the answer to by searching threads. So I offer my apologies for starting what must be, table saw thread number 500.

I have very recently (three days ago) decided to buy a new table saw. I have what I think it a common problem, space limitation. My “shop” is my 26 X 26 garage. For this reason, I have resisted the urge to replace my first generation Rigid contractor saw for better than six years now. I have resisted the urge to the point of complete refusal to even look at saws, knowing full well that I’d end up buying one. Even though my saw has a foot print similar in size of a cabinet saw, it’s light and quite easily moved around my garage and tucked away with the rest of my equipment when not in use (I have a system that works).

After swearing at the fence for the past few years, I decided to buy the Incra fence, knowing I’d more than likely be angry at that purchase as soon as I realize just how much extra space it requires. I have been researching aftermarket fences and Incra looks way too cool to not try. So that got me thinking again. The thought being, I just hosed myself with floor space with the Incra, so I might as well get a good saw to mount it on.

I really should not pay more than $1000 for a saw. With the fence I bought, my budget should really be closer to $500. After some initial searching, I found that there is now these mid range Hybrid saws that fall in line with my budget. But I also see that I can buy a new Griz cabinet saw for the same price as the hybrids. I looked at Craig’s list and found someone selling a Delta Unisaw for $1000 too. I do not know if it is still available or not, and waiting for a call back. I do not know if the unisaw is a good saw or not and have not ever seen one in person. Shipping to Alaska is usually very high. Wood Workers supply just quoted me $400 for shipping a saw to me. Grizzly ships for much less, so it looks like I’m stuck with Grizzly if I want to buy new. I have never used or even lade hands on Grizzly tools or equipment. I hear good things about them though, so I’m not overly concerned.

I see that a lot of folks are praising riving blades. I’m not sure if I would like one or not. I openly confess that I’m not a big fan of blade guards. I know it’s not safe to remove them, but I have over the years found them to cause me great irritation. When I’m irritated, I do stupid and unsafe things so I just yank them off the machine. I use zero clearance inserts, push sticks, feather boards and board buddies. I still have all my fingers. In regards to the riving blades, can zero clearance inserts be used with them? What do folks think about them? How are they “safer”? What do they do exactly?

I also see they now have granite table tops. I don’t think I would like that at all. I have granite counter tops and they chip. I can visualize crying shortly after I destroy one. What’s the general consensus with the granite tops? Are they as prone to damage as I think they are? Can I use my Incra miter (3000 SE) with them?

If I buy a cabinet saw, is there a good, low profile mobile base available? One that works well……

Thank you for your time……….. mike

[Josiah Bartlett]

Unisaws are great, but if you can't find one locally then shipping will put you over budget. They are quite heavy. I have a nice older one, and they don't take up that much space but if you want to move it around you will need a very good sturdy base. Pushing it around by the table or fence will throw it out of alignment.

Grizzly table saws have a good reputation around here. Since a mobile base is important to you, save money in your budget for one or fabricate one yourself. If you have a lumpy floor like I do, big casters are important.

[Philip Rodriquez]

Well, I'll throw in my opinion.

I have a 700 lb ICS SawStop on a mobile base. Therefore, I can assure you that there are plenty of mobile bases that will work for you.

As for Griz, I own a 10" jointer and a 15" planer - both with Spiral cutter heads. I would not hesitate purchasing one of their table saws.

As for the Unisaw, it is a very good saw.

Granite tops sound great. However, I've never used one.

[Cary Falk]

If I were you I would get the Grizzly G1023SL for $889 delivered. The Unisaw is a great saw if it is still available. I have a 1970 Uni. A riving knife would be great but I get by with a Beisemeyer splitter. There is a guy on one of the forums that sells a ************ Which will be pretty close to a riving knife. Granite is a big can of worms. Either you have one and love it or you never had one and hate them. A ZCI can be used with a riving knife. You will be able to use your 3000SE with a Granite top. I am in the camp that there isn't a good aftermarket mobile base, so I make my own.

Cary

[Cliff Holmes]

I have the Incra fence with the 90" rails mounted on a Grizzly 1023sl. Love it. Last I looked the Grizzly was on sale @ 25% off.

I've got a variety of Grizzly, Powermatic, Jet, and other equipment. For any new purchases, my first stop is Grizzly. I can *afford* pretty much anything, I *choose* Grizzly.

[Paul Johnstone]

I'm not here to talk you out of a new tool, but why are you dissatisfied with the Rigid contractor saw?

I use a Delta contractor saw. I could upgrade if I really wanted to, but it fits all my needs.

Downsides:

1...I need to use a rip blade for ripping (a combination blade doesn't really do as good of a job).

2...Occasionally I need to do a bevel cut at 45 degrees. The blade gets slightly out of alignment with the fence. I get a little burning, so I need to run the piece over the joiner. Not a huge deal, still cuts fine. Now if I had to make this cut on every piece of wood, it would get annoying.

I guess my point is that if you are on a budget, maybe that money would be better spent on something else? You don't need a 3 HP or 5 HP cabinet saw. Sure, they are nice, but not critical.

[Michael Drew]

Thank you all for your input. It sounds as if I should pick up the Unisaw, if that pans out. Second choice being the Grizzly.

In regards to what’s wrong with my Rigid, I’ve simply out grown it. My projects have gotten more complex and require better cuts. That is what led me on my search for a different fence. The fence is my biggest complain and the Incra should take care of that. My second complaint is a lack of power. I too use a thin ripping blade for any ripping. However, when I rip hardwood over 1.5”, it’s an agonizing process. I’m confident that a 2 HP motor would be enough, but 3 would be ideal. Another issue I have with the Rigid is making any cuts other than cuts with the blade straight up. I can’t just run the blade back and forth. Every time I change the angle and go back to straight, I have to drag out the machinist squares and reset the angle. This is a small convenience, but one nonetheless. And finally, the arbor is too short. I can not go wider than ¾” inch with my dado. Even at ¾, the nut is not fully threaded onto the arbor.

I had thought one of the hybrid saws would suite my needs fine, but if I can get a cabinet saw for the same price; I might as well do that.

So what does a riving blade do? It looks as if it just prevents the wood from squeezing the blade. What else does it do? And will a zero clearance insert work with them?

[John Coloccia]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]So what does a riving blade do? It looks as if it just prevents the wood from squeezing the blade. What else does it do? And will a zero clearance insert work with them?

That's all it does, but it does it at the back of the blade, which decreases the chance of a kickback. You haven't lived until you've seen a 2' square piece of 3/4" plywood fly straight back over your left shoulder like a 100MPH frisbee! More than sheet goods, it really shines when you have a piece of wood with gnarly grain that starts to run away on you as you rip it. I personally wouldn't buy a TS without a riving knife now that I have one. It's far better than a splitter. The riving knife moves up and down with the blade, yielding two advantages over a splitter:

1) the riving knife hugs the blade, even when the blade is set very low. The splitter gets further from the blade the lower the blade is

2) the riving knife is set just below the top of the blade, so you can make non-thru cuts without ever removing it (i.e. there's a good chance you'll actually use it because you don't have to remove it every 5 minutes).

[Michael Drew]

Oh... OK, I get it now. That sounds pretty slick.

I heard back from the seller who is selling his Delta. It is a 230V 3 HP, 34-802 with a Delta 30" unifence. Very low use, less than 10 hours. It looks as if this a an older model. Is a grand a good price on this saw? Seams a bit high to me.... It's a five hour drive for me to go look at it, otherwise I'd have already paid it a visit....

Anyone know what the amp draw in this saw is? If it's over 30, I'll have to cut some sheet rock and pull in larger wire. Not a big deal, but just something else to do that I'd rather not be bothered with right now.

[Neal Clayton]

older unisaws and powermatic 66s are the default "good deal" cabinet saws that are commonly available used.

if it's in good shape, 1000 is typically the going rate for either. slightly more for a 5hp motor, slightly less for saws older than ~25 years.

a new saw of comparable quality will be about double that.

the only thing to check really is start it up and make sure there's no squealing motor noise or bearing noise, and watch the blade as it spins down, there should be no wobble as it slows to a stop (it's called runout). if those check out ok, it's fine. table saws aren't really complicated devices. they're mostly cast iron, the only points of failure are bearings, belts, and motor, and belts obviously are a minor issue that a few bucks at napa will fix. they don't really wear out, it's a tool you should buy once, and get the best you can afford, since it's the one tool you're likely to use every day.

[Cary Falk]

Oh... OK, I get it now. That sounds pretty slick.

I heard back from the seller who is selling his Delta. It is a 230V 3 HP, 34-802 with a Delta 30" unifence. Very low use, less than 10 hours. It looks as if this a an older model. Is a grand a good price on this saw? Seams a bit high to me.... It's a five hour drive for me to go look at it, otherwise I'd have already paid it a visit....

Anyone know what the amp draw in this saw is? If it's over 30, I'll have to cut some sheet rock and pull in larger wire. Not a big deal, but just something else to do that I'd rather not be bothered with right now.

Wow, a 5 hour drive for a $1000 Unisaw seems kinda steep for me. I think the Grizzly is a better deal. My 3hp Baldor motor on my Unisaw draws about 18 amps and is on a 20 amp fuse.

Edit: or maybe it draws 15 amps. I can't remember what the heater settings on the magnetic starter are.

[Carl Babel]

The Grizzly G1023SLW is right at the upper bounds of your budget and is a really nice saw. With your Incra fence and the G1023SLW's built-in router table, you would have a really nice combo workstation.

[Jason White]

I have the Grizzly G1023SLW and believe me, it's a great deal!

Jason



Wow, a 5 hour drive for a $1000 Unisaw seems kinda steep for me. I think the Grizzly is a better deal. My 3hp Baldor motor on my Unisaw draws about 18 amps and is on a 20 amp fuse.

[Michael Drew]

Thanks again. Anyone know when the Unisaw started being made outside of the US? This one was aparently made in the US.

As my luck would have it, the Grizzley shipping costs to AK are different. I had to place an order to get the shipping costs. They will contact me as soon as they get a freight quote. This should be interesting........

[Will Hon]

I got a used Grizzly 1023SL for $500 and it came with an Excalibur overhead arm guard, extension table, and mobile base... Thats only half of your budget... plus shipping

[Prashun Patel]

I got a used Grizzly 1023SL for $500 and it came with an Excalibur overhead arm guard, extension table, and mobile base... Thats only half of your budget... plus shipping

Will, this is like saying "I just won the Lotto jackpot. You should try it."

[Eric DeSilva]

Wow, a 5 hour drive for a $1000 Unisaw seems kinda steep for me.

Remember, he's in Alaska. I'm guessing everything is going to be more expensive (and a longer drive) just based on initial transport costs...

[Paul Johnstone]

Anyone know what the amp draw in this saw is? If it's over 30, I'll have to cut some sheet rock and pull in larger wire. Not a big deal, but just something else to do that I'd rather not be bothered with right now.

If it's a 3 HP saw, you will be fine with a 20 amp circuit. More than adequate.

[Michael Drew]

Ya, it’s just the nature of the beast living here. There’s one road into town, or take a boat or plane. The nearest town with any sizable stores is 260 miles, one way.

Grizzly emailed me to tell me that I’ll have a shipping quote tomorrow. Depending on what is, I’ll either buy the 1023SL or start looking around some more for either a used cabinet saw or find another vendor in the lower 48 with better shipping rates.

My current budget is what it is due to recent vacation in Washington. I spent way too much money at about 50 different wineries. In a couple months I can buy whatever TS I want. I just happen to want one now, so I'm trying to be frugal.

[Michael Drew]

As a follow up….

Grizzly quoted me a shipping charge of $400. This put that saw at roughly $1200 to my door. Considering this, I took a road trip and checked out the used Unisaw. The fella selling it was one heck of a nice guy. I think I have a new friend… He bought the thing at an action. It was a foreclosure action where he had to buy a whole lot, which included the saw. The saw was new, never used. He then used the saw for one day at a job sight. After he used the saw, he put it upstairs in his shop where it has sat since 02. It still had the motor shipping bracket on it and plastic on the name / data plate. It also has an older Rockwell unifence, which I have never seen before. The fence is hell for stout and looks to be a dandy of a fence. I think I may just end up sending the Incra back. He also lowered the price on the saw to $800. I forgot my dial indicator, so I ran the saw and I couldn’t detect any vibration with the original junk Delta blade on it. Now I just need time to set the saw up. Thanks for all your help…… it was appreciated. I can’t wait to use the new toy.

[Dan Friedrichs]

That's a heck of a deal, Michael. Shawn might have to start playing the lotto now that both you and Will have won it :D

[Michael Drew]

I've been using the saw quite a bit the past few days. I'm now wondering how I survised with less power all these years. I'm glad I went with this saw. I spent some time making a Jet rolling base work, installing the TS fence, built the in field tables, right side support, miter storage and gave it a tune up. The belts had a memory and were causing some vibration. I replaced them with some link belts and it passed the dime test now (literally). I bought and installed the Bies' drop in splitter and am pretty happy with that little gadget. Had to seal up around the motor cover and make a plate to attach a dust port. Also had to build another cut off sled....joy-joy....I hate making those things. PITA to get them square.

Thanks to everyone who helped me with this decision. I just wish I would have gone this route years ago....

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/mdrew/20091229-PC296145.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/mdrew/20091229-PC296142.jpg

[Jim O'Dell]

Very nice Michael. Yeah, 400.00 shipping would kill a deal on most any saw. Looks like you kept the Incra. That should be a heck of a fence system. I have their router table fence and it is killer.
Enjoy it! Looks like you done good!! Jim.

[Greg Wittler]

I like what you did with the mobile base, I might have to do the same for my Incra fence when my Grizz arrives. Is that the Long or short incra fence, cant remember which one I bought as it was about 10 years ago.

Greg

[Keith Christopher]

I have the DW 746 and I love it. Tuned it up, has plenty of HP for what I want to do, with shop made outfeed tables and wheels it's quite nice to pull around. I don't know I will go full cabinet upgrade, but I may. I've even ripped 8/4 lyptus 6' long and it didn't bog down. Only downside to me, is the DC is a little crappy. But other than that I like it.

just my 2c.

[Don Morris]

Obviously you aren't concerned about the need for 220v. That frequently is the deal breaker for a lot of shoppers. Agree with a couple of the previous contributors, The Grizzly 1023SL or any it's several versions is a great saw. Only needs an add on riving blade which can be easily done. It's a Unisaw clone, or mightly close to it, because I dropped in a Delta Unisaw splitter (made by Biesemeyer) without any modifications. I've got it on a mobile base and it's goes around easily, as others have said. I don't do any better work (smarts)with it than my contractor saw, but dust collection is a whole lot better and easier! Choices, choices, choices.......

[Michael Drew]

I didn’t have any choice but to keep the Inrca because it was a Christmas gift from my girlfriend. Not that I’m implying that I wouldn’t have kept it otherwise but the saw came with a Rockwell Unifence and it sure seamed stout as hell and I was a bit apprehensive about the Incra. After playing with it a bit, I’m pretty impressed. When ripping heavy stuff like plywood sheets or long oak boards, one has to remember to lock down the inboard side fence rail clamp or the fence will move on you. But other than that, it’s a joy to use. I don’t have to pull my tape out and do the old ‘measure between the blade and fence trick’ anymore. I made a little miter T-jig that I can attach a dial indicator to and took a lot of time setting the table and then the fence. The fence is set up to be .004” wider at the back and so far, I have not burnt any boards.

Greg – the rails I have are the standard length rails. I’d have loved more capacity, but I just don’t have room for it. When you do build your in-field table (if you go that route), you’ll want to support it somehow without the fence rails supporting it. At first I just built the table and attached it to the rails for support thinking I’d add rail support latter – if needed. That caused me a lot of grief as the weight of the table kept messing with the rails and the fence would bind up on me. After I supported the table with the outriggers, the fence worked fine again. After supporting the table I was then able to attach it to the rails and all is good again. And – it’s rigid and not going anywhere.

[Matt Armstrong]

I love my Grizzly tools, don't get me wrong, but I love my unisaw even more. I do wish it had a riving knife as others have mentioned but I'm thrilled with mine.

What's the serial number on yours? Based on my serial, mine was made in 1991.

[Dwain Lambrigger]

As a follow up….

Grizzly quoted me a shipping charge of $400. This put that saw at roughly $1200 to my door. Considering this, I took a road trip and checked out the used Unisaw. The fella selling it was one heck of a nice guy. I think I have a new friend… He bought the thing at an action. It was a foreclosure action where he had to buy a whole lot, which included the saw. The saw was new, never used. He then used the saw for one day at a job sight. After he used the saw, he put it upstairs in his shop where it has sat since 02. It still had the motor shipping bracket on it and plastic on the name / data plate. It also has an older Rockwell unifence, which I have never seen before. The fence is hell for stout and looks to be a dandy of a fence. I think I may just end up sending the Incra back. He also lowered the price on the saw to $800. I forgot my dial indicator, so I ran the saw and I couldn’t detect any vibration with the original junk Delta blade on it. Now I just need time to set the saw up. Thanks for all your help…… it was appreciated. I can’t wait to use the new toy.


It's nice to get a great payoff after that long of a drive. Sounds like you got an excellent saw at a very good price. I know you will enjoy, but I would think twice about selling that Incra...

[Harlan Coverdale]

Looks like you made out well. Sounds like a great price on a great saw. Once you get used to it, you're gonna love the Incra setup. Being able to go back to a previous setting and know it's gonna be right on the money is a great feeling.

[Keith Christopher]

It's nice to get a great payoff after that long of a drive. Sounds like you got an excellent saw at a very good price. I know you will enjoy, but I would think twice about selling that Incra...

Dwain,

You bring up a good topic. Mitre gauges. I have 3 and a shop built cross cut sled. The standard that comes with the TS (total junk imho), a woodhaven mitre gauge- Very versatile and accurate, and an osborne gauge - love it for repeatable cut esp with long pieces and VERY accurate.

[Michael Drew]

I love my Grizzly tools, don't get me wrong, but I love my unisaw even more. I do wish it had a riving knife as others have mentioned but I'm thrilled with mine.

What's the serial number on yours? Based on my serial, mine was made in 1991.

Serial number is: 95 J 90094

How do you find the year it was built from that? The 95?

I like the Bies' splitter. It works really well and it's nothing to just pull it out when I don't want it on the saw. It may not ride as close to the blade as a real riving knife, but I think it serves its purpose well. It did yesterday ripping an angry chunk of 5/4 red oak.

[Michael Drew]

It's nice to get a great payoff after that long of a drive. Sounds like you got an excellent saw at a very good price. I know you will enjoy, but I would think twice about selling that Incra...

Oh I'm not selling the Incra.... I love it. I'm looking at the Incra router table set up now.

[Matt Armstrong]

Serial number is: 95 J 90094

How do you find the year it was built from that? The 95?

I like the Bies' splitter. It works really well and it's nothing to just pull it out when I don't want it on the saw. It may not ride as close to the blade as a real riving knife, but I think it serves its purpose well. It did yesterday ripping an angry chunk of 5/4 red oak.
yessir! 1995.

Glad you like it. I've never felt that the saw didn't have enough power.